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Thread: PebbleSheen discoloration

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    PebbleSheen discoloration

    Hello to All,

    We had our pool plastered and pebble-sheened in late Jan this year. The color is Irish Mist.

    The PB maintained the pool after start-up for 2 wks, then since I was traveling a lot, I hired a pool maintenance comp that has been in business for 28 yrs. There were referred to me by someone that had very good results. They have shown up on time every week and text me the water readings per pH, TA which were high at first but have been much more closer to ideal lately. On 4/23, pH 7.6, Cl 3.0 TA 90

    I registered the P-Sheen w the installer and they are coming out this Wed. This is not scale per the pool maintenance comp, but discoloration in patches and on the wall that faces the west. Pool guy called it "not uniform color". The patches are a bit darker. It has also taken place in the spa too, but not as distinctly.

    The pool and spa are 15K gallons, 3.5", 4.5" & 5.5" from entry to spa spillover, respectively. The pump is a VSP EcoStart Hayward and comes on daily from 8am - 4pm. Have a cartridge filtering system and water is Cl-based. Have been running the QC Robotics SHark for the last month.

    Does anyone have any idea what this is or could have happened?

    Either way, what are the potential steps or resolutions to correct the discoloration?

    Thank you very much,
    tstex

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    Mod Squad tim5055's Avatar
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    Re: PebbleSheen discoloration

    Can you tell if the discoloration is really in the plaster or something on the plaster.

    Do you have any idea what they are using for testing? Have you run your own tests? Do we know what the CYA level is?
    TFP Moderator 39 X 18 23,000(ish) freeform gunite; built 2007ish; Pentair Triton II TR100 600lb Sand filter; 2 HP Pentair pump with 2.2 HP AO Smith single speed motor; 2 skimmers, 1 main drain, 4 returns w/waterfall, Stenner 45MHP2 3GPD running@ 60% - 15 gal Tank; heated by the sun CYA 200+ when I started - 50 now. Dolphin Supreme M5 Pool Cleaner. Hot Springs SX Spa, 285 gallon

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    Re: PebbleSheen discoloration

    I'd like to see it if you can get some pictures up for us to look at. Generally, finish discoloration is a result of the installation, but the blame is almost without fail blamed on poor water chemistry. I'm guesiing with your time on the forum, you have a good kit? If so, have you followed up on recent parameters, or verify any of the installers and pool service numbers?
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    Re: PebbleSheen discoloration

    Please update your signature as shown here.
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    Re: PebbleSheen discoloration

    Thanks for your answers.

    I have a TF-100 w Stir-stick...

    I was there many of the times he did the tests. It is my daughters 16th b-day today, so when we get back, I'll test for all and post them.

    Thanks again, tstex

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    Re: PebbleSheen discoloration

    I dont know how dark Irish Mist is, but the darker color the plaster, the more likely there is to be "mottling". I not necessarily discolored, its just not completely uniform shade of color.

    Getting the plaster guy out to look at it is the right thing to do.
    Divin Dave,
    IG Vinyl, 15' x 30', 3 1/2' - 6' deep, Oval, ~15K gal, Intelliclor IC40, Intelliflo VS pump, Clean and Clear 420 Filter, auto-fill-disabled, Retrofit LED Color Light, Dolphin Nautilus Robot, TF100 Test Kit, Taylor K1766 Salt Test Kit, Tftestkit Pressure Gauge.
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    Re: PebbleSheen discoloration

    Quote Originally Posted by Divin Dave View Post
    I dont know how dark Irish Mist is, but the darker color the plaster, the more likely there is to be "mottling". I not necessarily discolored, its just not completely uniform shade of color.

    Getting the plaster guy out to look at it is the right thing to do.
    D-Dave,

    If it is "mottling". was is the resolution?

    Thanks,
    tstex

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    Re: PebbleSheen discoloration

    tstex,
    Im not a plaster expert at all, but if you searh "mottling", there will be a lot of hits and to some extent, some mottling is to be expected (so I understand).
    Reading others experiences wit it may shed some light on the subject for you.

    It's more prevelent in darker colors than lighter ones. Plaster takes a long time to cure, up to a year or more, and what you are seeing may be also related to the curing of the plaster.

    Of course how well the plaster was applied and how well it was started can also be variables.

    without any pics to see, none of us can really know to what extent of discoloration you are describing or really how to comment with any amount of credibility.

    Getting your plaster guy to have a look is definitely the thing to do.


    Quote Originally Posted by tstex View Post
    D-Dave,

    If it is "mottling". was is the resolution?

    Thanks,
    tstex
    Divin Dave,
    IG Vinyl, 15' x 30', 3 1/2' - 6' deep, Oval, ~15K gal, Intelliclor IC40, Intelliflo VS pump, Clean and Clear 420 Filter, auto-fill-disabled, Retrofit LED Color Light, Dolphin Nautilus Robot, TF100 Test Kit, Taylor K1766 Salt Test Kit, Tftestkit Pressure Gauge.
    www.tftestkits.net Experience- it's what's learned just after you needed it most !!

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    Re: PebbleSheen discoloration

    Irish mist is a lighter color. It almost looks like light-colored chocolate mint ice cream. W water in the pool and the beige travertine, it looks really nice.

    I do not have an immediate means of posting pictures, but can you do an attachment via PM'ing someone?

    The apptment w the authorized PebbleTech Company is this Wed at 930AM CST. I will certainly post back what they say.

    Thanks,
    tstex

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    Re: PebbleSheen discoloration

    See what they say, but do not be surprised if they say it's normal, or its something wrong with the handling of the water chemistry. No finish is perfect, but too much mottling isn't normal, and less normal in lighter colors...generally.

    Do let us know what they say, and if you have some pics, simply open a free photo hosting account at a place like photobucket and you can post all you want here with that.
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    Re: PebbleSheen discoloration

    The pebbletec installer is coming Wednesday morning 4/29...I will let you know what they say

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    Re: PebbleSheen discoloration

    **********************UPDATE********************

    The installer came this morning and took pictures of the discoloration. He said they would send the pics to their supervisor to determine the options. He said it certainly is not scale. Also, in the shallow areas, the pebblesheen is still every uniform like on the 8" sun shelf, but as you get deeper, the discoloration becomes more apparent. This would indicate, at least to me, that it could be pressure related and/or more UV related. I also told him that a professional pool maintenance comp that's been in business for 30 yrs is maintaining it to their spec's. He knew of the company, so I believe they will honor their warranty to rectify.

    He did not test the water chemistries or anything, nor cast blame either way. He alluded to a "no-drain acid wash" as a possible action plan. Said it takes about a week. I believe I have heard re-acid washing pebblesheen here on the forum. Also, believe I read that it can be tested in one small area to determine if it will work or not. Has anyone had this done before w success, and if not, why and what were the other alternatives?

    As soon as they call back w the exact action plan, I will keep the forum updated so hopefully this can help some others.

    Thanks again,
    tstex

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    Mod Squad tim5055's Avatar
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    Re: PebbleSheen discoloration

    I'm glad they are working with you and it doesn't seem to be the blame game.
    TFP Moderator 39 X 18 23,000(ish) freeform gunite; built 2007ish; Pentair Triton II TR100 600lb Sand filter; 2 HP Pentair pump with 2.2 HP AO Smith single speed motor; 2 skimmers, 1 main drain, 4 returns w/waterfall, Stenner 45MHP2 3GPD running@ 60% - 15 gal Tank; heated by the sun CYA 200+ when I started - 50 now. Dolphin Supreme M5 Pool Cleaner. Hot Springs SX Spa, 285 gallon

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    Re: PebbleSheen discoloration

    I just looked at this post 20 minutes ago and wondered when they would come. Wow, they came early!

    Not many options, but the better option is a full drain acid wash. No drains are sketchy with results at best. Sometimes they help, sometimes not so much. The no drain is harder on the finish, because they drive the TA down to Zero with VERY low pH for an extended time. It's tough on the plaster components in the finish, but it's commonly done. Still, I'm not a fan of it. See what they come back with, and go from there.
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    Re: PebbleSheen discoloration

    If they did do a drain acid wash, that's about a $400 tab for us to re-fill, but if it gets it right, then so be it.

    I am not a fan of doing anything that is too harsh on the long term maintenance of the pool. If they did drain it, and since we have had a lot of rain, what are the chances of getting a floating pool or something thereof? Would they drain and then drill holes into pool like it was done during construction until they re-plastered?

    THanks,
    tstex

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    Re: PebbleSheen discoloration

    Yes, if you have high ground water it would be similar if they had to do that previously. See what they say on all that.
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    Re: PebbleSheen discoloration

    Thanks Pat - Will do

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    Re: PebbleSheen discoloration

    Here is what the company sent me after they discussed my pool:

    "After inspection on 4/29/15, the tech determined that we would have to perform a no drain acid wash on the pool to address the concerning issue in your pool. In performing a no drain acid wash procedure, the pool will not be drained and the process is normally complete in approximately 4 - 7 days (sometimes a little longer). Our tech will return the days after we start the no drain acid wash to brush the pool and focus on the areas of concern. Once the pool water is neutralized, (our tech will let me know and I will let you and the builder know) you would run it for 24 hours then get a water sample and adjust the chemicals. It is important that proper water balances take place after running the pool."

    I mentioned that strong concentrations of M-acid is tough on the pool plaster, but they said they do this in steps and do not blast it all at one time.

    Let me know what you think? They proposed to start in mid-May

    Regards,
    tstex

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    Re: PebbleSheen discoloration

    They may do it in steps, but they will take the pH very low. While a lot of us don't think its a good idea, and is hard on plaster components, it is very common practice. It sounds like this will be their solution so you'll have to accept it, demand a full drain, or live with it as is. Full drain in your case sounds problematic because of high water table issues though, and it's the last thing they want to do. If you do the procedure, find out from them what that "proper balance" is, and get it in writing. Also, if they will bring it in line with said proper balance for you. If it were me, I would test the balance after they start the neutralizing process to check up on them. I don't remember now, do you have one of the kits we suggest using?
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    Re: PebbleSheen discoloration

    Have you asked the installer "what" is the discoloration or "why" there is discoloration of your plaster job? And how the "no-drain acid treatment" will fix the discoloration?
    Seems to me that you might want to know that information before allowing them to proceed. And get it all in writing as Patrick suggests.

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