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Thread: Chlorine won't come up...and other questions

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    Chlorine won't come up...and other questions

    I'm having some balancing trouble...could use some help!

    Did my tf-100 testing this morning:
    pH- 7.5
    Free chlorine -1.5ppm
    Combined chloramines -0
    Calcium -250ppm
    Alkalinity- 80ppm
    CYA - 30ppm

    I'm low on my cya, which might explain why running the SWCG at 60% for the last week hasn't brought up my chlorine level. I've just upped it to 70%. It's a brand new pool with a hayward turbo cell T-cell-15. And being in central, fl, it's plenty sunny. So, I figure the chlorine is just burning off(?)

    As such, I've just added less than a pound of stabilizer slowly into the skimmer (but this amount is a guess; pouring it out of a bag. What's a better way to measure this stuff out?!?). Pool math called for like 9lbs...which I think is too much to add at one go.

    Is my problem the CYA, or am I missing something else? Any other input regarding my chemical levels?

    Also, can you add different chemicals at the same time? Any reason to avoid doing this? e.g. Adding cya and sodium bicarb together?

    Thanks ahead of time!!
    ~Adam 12K gal free-form pool with spa, Hayward EcoStart VS pump, Hayward T-15 SWCG, Hayward C17502 filter, Hayward Heat PumpPro 140k BTU, Stonescapes minipebble. tf-100 & speedstir.
    5.5 foot retaining wall. Build completed in Feb 2015.
    East Central FL.

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    Defgufman's Avatar
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    Re: Chlorine won't come up...and other questions

    Adding sodium bicarb shouldn't be a problem

    - - - Updated - - -

    Are you sure the swg is working, you should have some fc
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    Mod Squad woodyp's Avatar
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    Re: Chlorine won't come up...and other questions

    You should jump start your FC level to where you want it to be with bleach and then allow the SWG to maintain it. And yes, your CYA should be 70 to 80 ppm. 5 lbs. should get you in range from 30 to 80.
    Walmart CYA comes with a measuring cap you can use.
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    Mod Squad tim5055's Avatar
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    Re: Chlorine won't come up...and other questions

    While sodium bicarbonate & CYA additions at the same time should not cause issues, it is better to get in the habit of adding chemicals separately, with 30 minutes of circulation between them. Some chemicals don't play well together, so it is just a good habit to be in.

    When adding CYA rather than pouring in the skimmer we prefer to see the "sock" method. Pour your addition into an old sock and hang that in front of a return, or if you must place the scum in a skimmer. Many folks have backwash end CYA out of their pool because it was in their filter dissolving. You can see the sock and even give it a squeeze every so often to help it dissolve. While talking about CYA, add in two or three smaller batches rather than all at once. Add, wait a week then test, and repeat until you get to your desired level. You don't want to end up,with too much CYA....
    TFP Moderator 39 X 18 23,000(ish) freeform gunite; built 2007ish; Pentair Triton II TR100 600lb Sand filter; 2 HP Pentair pump with 2.2 HP AO Smith single speed motor; 2 skimmers, 1 main drain, 4 returns w/waterfall, Stenner 45MHP2 3GPD running@ 60% - 15 gal Tank; heated by the sun CYA 200+ when I started - 50 now. Dolphin Supreme M5 Pool Cleaner. Hot Springs SX Spa, 285 gallon

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    Re: Chlorine won't come up...and other questions

    Appreciate the input. Sorry slow to get back.

    My chlorine has been declining for a few weeks; and we've been in the pool pretty much daily. So, I decided to SLAM the pool. Two pounds granular shock. Prior to this, I also cleaned the salt cell. Pool opened in mid-February; seems a little short of a duration to have to clean the cell, but did it anyway.

    I've read that the chlorine levels will drift back down - is the burn off due to the sun?

    I'll post chem levels later. I am new at this, any other recommendations?
    ~Adam 12K gal free-form pool with spa, Hayward EcoStart VS pump, Hayward T-15 SWCG, Hayward C17502 filter, Hayward Heat PumpPro 140k BTU, Stonescapes minipebble. tf-100 & speedstir.
    5.5 foot retaining wall. Build completed in Feb 2015.
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    Patrick_B's Avatar
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    Re: Chlorine won't come up...and other questions

    Sun is a factor, but there are others, such as bather load, and Algae. Adding two pounds of shock and done is not doing a SLAM.

    Post up the numbers and we can give you more advice.
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    Re: Chlorine won't come up...and other questions

    no, i know...i'm working through it.
    I'll get numbers this evening
    ~Adam 12K gal free-form pool with spa, Hayward EcoStart VS pump, Hayward T-15 SWCG, Hayward C17502 filter, Hayward Heat PumpPro 140k BTU, Stonescapes minipebble. tf-100 & speedstir.
    5.5 foot retaining wall. Build completed in Feb 2015.
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    Re: Chlorine won't come up...and other questions

    Quote Originally Posted by AChristie76 View Post
    I am new at this, any other recommendations?
    I know you are probably still trying to get the CYA to your target, but remember granular shock adds CYA. Get your FC is up around 10 using bleach/liquid chlorine around dusk and conduct an Overnight Chlorine Loss Test. This will show if the sun is getting your chlorine or if something is growing in the water.
    TFP Moderator 39 X 18 23,000(ish) freeform gunite; built 2007ish; Pentair Triton II TR100 600lb Sand filter; 2 HP Pentair pump with 2.2 HP AO Smith single speed motor; 2 skimmers, 1 main drain, 4 returns w/waterfall, Stenner 45MHP2 3GPD running@ 60% - 15 gal Tank; heated by the sun CYA 200+ when I started - 50 now. Dolphin Supreme M5 Pool Cleaner. Hot Springs SX Spa, 285 gallon

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    Re: Chlorine won't come up...and other questions

    thanks Tim. Good suggestion, i'll see if I can give that a go.

    Here are my test numbers from just now:
    pH = 7.8
    FC = 10.5
    CC = 0
    hardness = 275
    Alkalinity = 100
    CYA = 40.

    I'm planning on cleaning the filter and adding CYA. Does that sound about right?

    I'll note too - that while I inspected the salt cell there was no noticeable debris or buildup. I cleaned the unit since I had it open...but probably unnecessary
    ~Adam 12K gal free-form pool with spa, Hayward EcoStart VS pump, Hayward T-15 SWCG, Hayward C17502 filter, Hayward Heat PumpPro 140k BTU, Stonescapes minipebble. tf-100 & speedstir.
    5.5 foot retaining wall. Build completed in Feb 2015.
    East Central FL.

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    Mod Squad tim5055's Avatar
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    Re: Chlorine won't come up...and other questions

    I would hold off on any more CYA additions for a few more days. With it taking up to a week to register on the test the CYA you added a couple of days ago may not be showing up yet.
    TFP Moderator 39 X 18 23,000(ish) freeform gunite; built 2007ish; Pentair Triton II TR100 600lb Sand filter; 2 HP Pentair pump with 2.2 HP AO Smith single speed motor; 2 skimmers, 1 main drain, 4 returns w/waterfall, Stenner 45MHP2 3GPD running@ 60% - 15 gal Tank; heated by the sun CYA 200+ when I started - 50 now. Dolphin Supreme M5 Pool Cleaner. Hot Springs SX Spa, 285 gallon

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    Re: Chlorine won't come up...and other questions

    Ok. thanks Tim. amazingly fast response!

    Should I lower pH at all at this point?

    Admitting I haven't bothered to google this yet...but when are we safe to swim again?
    I remember as a kid pool that would burn your eyes and such...I know I'm nowhere near THAT heavy on chlorine, but I also dont want to overexpose my kids.

    So, my plan is:
    1. Brush and clean the filter.
    2. set up and complete the OCLT
    3. retest tomorrow.
    4. start raising CYA.
    ~Adam 12K gal free-form pool with spa, Hayward EcoStart VS pump, Hayward T-15 SWCG, Hayward C17502 filter, Hayward Heat PumpPro 140k BTU, Stonescapes minipebble. tf-100 & speedstir.
    5.5 foot retaining wall. Build completed in Feb 2015.
    East Central FL.

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    Re: Chlorine won't come up...and other questions

    Burning eyes is usually due to not enough chlorine or the pH being out of whack.

    It is safe to swim if the water is clear and your FC is between the minimum and the shock level for you CYA ... so it is safe now.

    The pH can read falsely high when the FC > 10ppm, so I would let that drift down a bit before adjusting the pH.
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    Re: Chlorine won't come up...and other questions

    Hey -

    Brushing last night churned up a lot of material, which was easy to see with it dark and the pool light on. I have a paver deck, so I figure some of it was the sand getting kicked up. As such, rather than cleaning out the cartridge filter last night, I thought it best to leave the pump running to collect the particles. I'll clean the filter this evening.

    Ran the OCLT.
    9pm: FC = 10 CC = 0
    5:30am: FC = 9 CC = 0
    Two less drops of reagent 871 this morning, but I may have been a drop too strong last night.

    I'm going to rerun the OCLT this evening again. I did turn on my SWCG this morning.

    Appreciate your thoughts!
    ~Adam 12K gal free-form pool with spa, Hayward EcoStart VS pump, Hayward T-15 SWCG, Hayward C17502 filter, Hayward Heat PumpPro 140k BTU, Stonescapes minipebble. tf-100 & speedstir.
    5.5 foot retaining wall. Build completed in Feb 2015.
    East Central FL.

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    Re: About how much chlorine does a SWCG generate?

    Thanks Jason! Good idea. I'm not familiar with the diagnostics button - i'll check that out tonight - and will post what I can!


    I have completed the OCLT the other day...I posted that to a different thread topic several days ago...where my FC was stable, and had 0 CC.

    The next night I ran a modified OCLT - where I ran with the SWG turned on - to see how much chlorine I could pump into the pool. Overnight, I only gained .5ppm. When, with the help of Mark (MAS985), the math indicated that it should've gone up about 1.8ppm.
    ~Adam 12K gal free-form pool with spa, Hayward EcoStart VS pump, Hayward T-15 SWCG, Hayward C17502 filter, Hayward Heat PumpPro 140k BTU, Stonescapes minipebble. tf-100 & speedstir.
    5.5 foot retaining wall. Build completed in Feb 2015.
    East Central FL.

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    Re: Slamming pool

    Quote Originally Posted by carlp View Post
    2. FC maintained above the shock level of 16ppm (if we assume CYA is around 40). At the beginning you will be testing and adding chlorine every few hours (use PoolMath to figure out how much bleach you should be adding each time)


    Carl -

    How long is one supposed to maintain the shock level for? Just hit the number and let it drift down? Or keep it about there for a period?
    ~Adam 12K gal free-form pool with spa, Hayward EcoStart VS pump, Hayward T-15 SWCG, Hayward C17502 filter, Hayward Heat PumpPro 140k BTU, Stonescapes minipebble. tf-100 & speedstir.
    5.5 foot retaining wall. Build completed in Feb 2015.
    East Central FL.

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    Re: Slamming pool

    Quote Originally Posted by AChristie76 View Post
    Carl -

    How long is one supposed to maintain the shock level for? Just hit the number and let it drift down? Or keep it about there for a period?
    During a SLAM you must maintain the shock level until it is complete. When is it complete? When three criteria are ALL met




    • CC is 0.5 or lower;
    • You pass an OCLT (ie overnight FC loss test shows a loss of 1.0 ppm or less);
    • And the water is clear.


    When all three are true, you are done SLAMing and can allow the FC to drift down to normal levels.

    Directions on SLAMing your pool
    TFP Moderator 39 X 18 23,000(ish) freeform gunite; built 2007ish; Pentair Triton II TR100 600lb Sand filter; 2 HP Pentair pump with 2.2 HP AO Smith single speed motor; 2 skimmers, 1 main drain, 4 returns w/waterfall, Stenner 45MHP2 3GPD running@ 60% - 15 gal Tank; heated by the sun CYA 200+ when I started - 50 now. Dolphin Supreme M5 Pool Cleaner. Hot Springs SX Spa, 285 gallon

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    Mod Squad tim5055's Avatar
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    Re: About how much chlorine does a SWCG generate?

    Adam,

    I just answered your question on a SLAM over on another thread. Your question there leads me to believe you do have something growing in the water and should at a minimum do a Overnight FC Loss Test (OCLT). I think you will probably fail the OCLT and then should read the directions on SLAMing your pool in the How To section of Pool School and follow that procedure completely to the end.
    TFP Moderator 39 X 18 23,000(ish) freeform gunite; built 2007ish; Pentair Triton II TR100 600lb Sand filter; 2 HP Pentair pump with 2.2 HP AO Smith single speed motor; 2 skimmers, 1 main drain, 4 returns w/waterfall, Stenner 45MHP2 3GPD running@ 60% - 15 gal Tank; heated by the sun CYA 200+ when I started - 50 now. Dolphin Supreme M5 Pool Cleaner. Hot Springs SX Spa, 285 gallon

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    Re: About how much chlorine does a SWCG generate?

    yeah, saw that Tim. Thanks.

    I've been reading a lot of threads lately - trying to understand what I've got going on.
    ~Adam 12K gal free-form pool with spa, Hayward EcoStart VS pump, Hayward T-15 SWCG, Hayward C17502 filter, Hayward Heat PumpPro 140k BTU, Stonescapes minipebble. tf-100 & speedstir.
    5.5 foot retaining wall. Build completed in Feb 2015.
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    Mod Squad tim5055's Avatar
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    Re: About how much chlorine does a SWCG generate?

    Quote Originally Posted by AChristie76 View Post
    yeah, saw that Tim. Thanks.

    I've been reading a lot of threads lately - trying to understand what I've got going on.
    You really need to keep all of your questions in one thread so we get the entire picture. In one thread you describe your OCLT with a 1ppm loss, and even though that is technically a "pass", tied in with your constant loss of FC indicates there is something there.
    TFP Moderator 39 X 18 23,000(ish) freeform gunite; built 2007ish; Pentair Triton II TR100 600lb Sand filter; 2 HP Pentair pump with 2.2 HP AO Smith single speed motor; 2 skimmers, 1 main drain, 4 returns w/waterfall, Stenner 45MHP2 3GPD running@ 60% - 15 gal Tank; heated by the sun CYA 200+ when I started - 50 now. Dolphin Supreme M5 Pool Cleaner. Hot Springs SX Spa, 285 gallon

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    Re: About how much chlorine does a SWCG generate?

    Quote Originally Posted by tim5055 View Post
    You really need to keep all of your questions in one thread so we get the entire picture. In one thread you describe your OCLT with a 1ppm loss, and even though that is technically a "pass", tied in with your constant loss of FC indicates there is something there.
    X 2 on Tim's comment. Doing so will get you better help as we can see the whole picture in one place. If you come up with questions, ask them in your thread please.
    TFP Moderator
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