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Thread: New To Site, Need some Guidance Please

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    New To Site, Need some Guidance Please

    Hello,

    My wife and I just moved into a new home and found the pool was left for us in the green condition. I know the chlorine must have ran out and the algae took over, so I bought a TF100 kit and took some samples, which are below.

    FC = 0, the 870 powder didn't turn pink.
    PH = 7.2
    TA = 240
    CH = 450
    CYA = <20, I have no idea since I could see the black dot even though the tube was complete full to the top.

    I know I have to SLAM to get rid of the algae, but from what I read on the forum, I need to get the PH, CYA and TA under control? I tried using the pool calc app on here, but I'm having some problems understanding how the numbers need to be inputted.

    Any help would be greatly appreciated,
    Z
    2012 Gunite/Plaster, 33.5k Gal, No SWG, Tagelus Sand Filtration, UAC Regal 3/4HP Pump, TF100 Testkit w/stir plate.

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    Mod Squad jblizzle's Avatar
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    Re: New To Site, Need some Guidance Please

    Welcome to TFP!!!

    Your pH is fine to start the SLAM
    The TA seems high, could be the issue with static in the bottle, but this does not matter at this point.
    You should start by adding about 30ppm of CYA dissolving in a sock in the skimmer and then start the ShockLevelAndMAINTAIN Process.

    In PoolMath, enter you volume at the top and make your "Suggested goal levels" selections at the bottom. Then enter your test results on the left column and your desired target levels in the right column.
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    Re: New To Site, Need some Guidance Please

    Thank you for the quick response. Based on the calc, I need to add 134 oz. by weight of stabilizer to a sock and put it in my skimmer. Is the stabilizer the same you buy from Walmart in the packs?

    Thanks,
    Z
    2012 Gunite/Plaster, 33.5k Gal, No SWG, Tagelus Sand Filtration, UAC Regal 3/4HP Pump, TF100 Testkit w/stir plate.

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    Mod Squad jblizzle's Avatar
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    Re: New To Site, Need some Guidance Please

    Was the CYA test cloudy at all or perfectly clear?

    That is the same number I got from PoolMath.

    You can get the stabilizer at Walmart, but I would not say it comes in "packs". What I have see is in a 4 pound plastic tub. You might want to just start with 2 of those. and then verify the CYA level in a week.
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    Mod Squad pooldv's Avatar
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    Re: New To Site, Need some Guidance Please

    The fine print on the Stabilizer jug will say cyanuric acid.
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    Re: New To Site, Need some Guidance Please

    Quote Originally Posted by jblizzle View Post
    Was the CYA test cloudy at all or perfectly clear?

    That is the same number I got from PoolMath.

    You can get the stabilizer at Walmart, but I would not say it comes in "packs". What I have see is in a 4 pound plastic tub. You might want to just start with 2 of those. and then verify the CYA level in a week.
    Tube was perfectly clear. Yes, will start with just 2 to be on the safe side. I wouldn't want to drain the pool this soon if I put too much. Thanks again for help, much appreciated.
    2012 Gunite/Plaster, 33.5k Gal, No SWG, Tagelus Sand Filtration, UAC Regal 3/4HP Pump, TF100 Testkit w/stir plate.

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    Need More Assistance Please.

    I started the SLAM on Friday, 24 Aug and thought I made some good progress. As of today, I've put about 36, 121oz jugs of bleach in the pool and closest I have reach shock leave has been 7.5ppm. Sunday evening the chlorine level dropped, so I put 6 jugs in before I went to bed. I couldn't check the level this morning due to work, but got home around 4pm today and checked the levels again:

    FC = 1
    CC = 5
    PH = <6.8, might be lower
    TA = 170
    CYA = 40

    I have no idea what I need to specifically do at this point and any assistance would be greatly appreciated.

    v/r,
    Z
    2012 Gunite/Plaster, 33.5k Gal, No SWG, Tagelus Sand Filtration, UAC Regal 3/4HP Pump, TF100 Testkit w/stir plate.

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    Mod Squad jblizzle's Avatar
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    Re: New To Site, Need some Guidance Please

    With the high FC losses and the high CC readings and the 0 CYA reading you initially had, I would guess that you had conversion of your CYA into ammonia.

    You should just keep raising the FC up to shock level every 30+ minutes until the FC starts to hold and the CC drops.
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    Re: New To Site, Need some Guidance Please

    Ok, I'll dump some more in and check it in an hour.

    Thanks,
    Z
    2012 Gunite/Plaster, 33.5k Gal, No SWG, Tagelus Sand Filtration, UAC Regal 3/4HP Pump, TF100 Testkit w/stir plate.

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    Mod Squad jblizzle's Avatar
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    Re: New To Site, Need some Guidance Please

    Sorry we did not check that earlier. Might have been quicker to deal with the ammonia prior to adding more CYA.
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    Re: New To Site, Need some Guidance Please

    Quote Originally Posted by jblizzle View Post
    Sorry we did not check that earlier. Might have been quicker to deal with the ammonia prior to adding more CYA.
    no worries, is there any way beside dumping in more Bleach to get the FC under control. Would the PH being low or lower than 6.8 have something to do with the FC problem?
    2012 Gunite/Plaster, 33.5k Gal, No SWG, Tagelus Sand Filtration, UAC Regal 3/4HP Pump, TF100 Testkit w/stir plate.

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    Re: New To Site, Need some Guidance Please

    The pH is not causing a problem, but you should raise it into the low 7s before you continue with the bleach additions.
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    Re: New To Site, Need some Guidance Please

    Quote Originally Posted by jblizzle View Post
    The pH is not causing a problem, but you should raise it into the low 7s before you continue with the bleach additions.
    Well I didn't read your message until this morning. Last night, around 7pm, I dumped 9 jugs of bleach into the pool. An hour later I checked and had 2ppm FC and 7ppm CC (***!!!! Why did it go up?) I said screw it and dumped 16 jugs of bleach and went to bed. This morning I checked and had 3ppm FC and 2ppm CC, so from this it looks like I'm defeating the CC part, but my questions are as follows:

    1. My original Shock FC was based off 30ppm CYA, but my CYA = 40, so my new Shock FC = 16. Is this correct or should I be dumping more bleach in like I've been doing?
    2. Can I adjust the PH at anytime or do I have to wait for the FC to come down.
    3. When I started this SLAMing, I know it said I needed to have plenty of bleach on hand, but I've used about 60+ jugs ($300) now and feel like I'm getting nowhere is this right?

    Z
    2012 Gunite/Plaster, 33.5k Gal, No SWG, Tagelus Sand Filtration, UAC Regal 3/4HP Pump, TF100 Testkit w/stir plate.

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    Re: New To Site, Need some Guidance Please

    It does sound like you have an ammonia problem. When you do, it will use bleach up almost as fast as you can pour it in. The fact that you did hold some FC overnight is a positive sign. Once you're rid of the ammonia, things will go back to normal. The CC will go down and stay down now.

    You are correct, if CYA is 40, shock level is 16
    You can only test and adjust pH when FC is below 10. Otherwise it reads falsely high
    You are getting somewhere now. When the CC jumped up, that was the signal that your CYA had decomposed into ammonia. At that point, it might have been cheaper to drain part of the water out and refill. But hindsight is always 20/20. Is there any visual improvement? Has the water turned grey and cloudy? If the color is changing, CC is going down, and FC isn't all gone every time you test, you're making forward progress.
    16K freeform gunite with spa; Pentair 4000 DE filter; Century Whisperflow 1 HP; Pentair Minimax heater.
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    Re: New To Site, Need some Guidance Please

    Quote Originally Posted by Richard320 View Post
    It does sound like you have an ammonia problem. When you do, it will use bleach up almost as fast as you can pour it in. The fact that you did hold some FC overnight is a positive sign. Once you're rid of the ammonia, things will go back to normal. The CC will go down and stay down now.

    You are correct, if CYA is 40, shock level is 16
    You can only test and adjust pH when FC is below 10. Otherwise it reads falsely high
    You are getting somewhere now. When the CC jumped up, that was the signal that your CYA had decomposed into ammonia. At that point, it might have been cheaper to drain part of the water out and refill. But hindsight is always 20/20. Is there any visual improvement? Has the water turned grey and cloudy? If the color is changing, CC is going down, and FC isn't all gone every time you test, you're making forward progress.
    Yes, the water is grey/cloudy and I can see to bottom somewhat in order to vacuum each day. So my question would be, when I get home this afternoon, check the FC and if it's below 10ppm, I would adjust the PH up to 7.2 and then add more bleach or does the adjustment of the PH really matter at this point?
    2012 Gunite/Plaster, 33.5k Gal, No SWG, Tagelus Sand Filtration, UAC Regal 3/4HP Pump, TF100 Testkit w/stir plate.

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    Re: New To Site, Need some Guidance Please

    I think you could test below 10 FC and adjust up, but not too much. Either way, it won't help a whole bunch. Still low 7s would be best. That is a big pool, and a lot of bleach. This is a case where I think drain and refill is prudent. Where you are you have to be very aware of high water table issues, but I think I'd go for multiple small refills if it was me. You may be in for as much more bleach, but we can't even guess with certainty.
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    Re: New To Site, Need some Guidance Please

    Update: When I got home yesterday evening I tested the water and got an FC = 1ppm and CC =< 0.5. Since the FC was below 10ppm I went ahead and adjusted the PH and then added beach per the poolcalc. Before I went to bed I checked water and got an FC = >20ppm, which was over the estimated 16ppm. Hopefully this will not effect anything too much?
    2012 Gunite/Plaster, 33.5k Gal, No SWG, Tagelus Sand Filtration, UAC Regal 3/4HP Pump, TF100 Testkit w/stir plate.

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    Re: New To Site, Need some Guidance Please

    The pool is fine with the FC a little over shock level, I prefer it as you want the FC to not fall below the shock level during the SLAM process.

    It looks like the ammonia has been taken care of and the pool should clear up nicely from here on. Make sure you maintain the FC at or slightly above the target value.

    How is the water looking?
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    Re: New To Site, Need some Guidance Please

    When you know you have lost all of the CYA over the winter there is a chance that it was converted to ammonia.

    If you suspect ammonia you can use an ammonia test kit.

    If you do not have access to an ammonia test kit, then I would raise the FC to shock level and test the FC 30 minutes after adding the chlorine. If there is little to no FC after 30 minutes then there is a good chance the CYA was converted to ammonia. I would then get an ammonia test kit for sure and measure the amount of ammonia as it might very well be easiest and cheapest to drain the pool. In your case you can only drain so much at a time due to your liner.
    16k gal plaster with raised spa, Jandy DEV60 filter, 2 HP 2-speed SHPF Jandy Stealth pump
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    Re: New To Site, Need some Guidance Please

    Quote Originally Posted by ping View Post
    The pool is fine with the FC a little over shock level, I prefer it as you want the FC to not fall below the shock level during the SLAM process.

    It looks like the ammonia has been taken care of and the pool should clear up nicely from here on. Make sure you maintain the FC at or slightly above the target value.

    How is the water looking? When you know you have lost all of the CYA over the winter there is a chance that it was converted to ammonia.

    If you suspect ammonia you can use an ammonia test kit.

    If you do not have access to an ammonia test kit, then I would raise the FC to shock level and test the FC 30 minutes after adding the chlorine. If there is little to no FC after 30 minutes then there is a good chance the CYA was converted to ammonia. I would then get an ammonia test kit for sure and measure the amount of ammonia as it might very well be easiest and cheapest to drain the pool. In your case you can only drain so much at a time due to your liner.
    I wasn't aware of the ammonia issue until I was too far into the process, hopefully this will not happen again with proper maintenance. The pool is plaster, so draining wouldn't be an issue, but I don't plan on letting the pool get this way again and will be upgrading some of the mechanical parts of the system for better efficiency.

    Thanks for everyone's help,
    Z
    2012 Gunite/Plaster, 33.5k Gal, No SWG, Tagelus Sand Filtration, UAC Regal 3/4HP Pump, TF100 Testkit w/stir plate.

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