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Thread: New Owner w/Test Results

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    New Owner w/Test Results

    Our pool just got built and filled out with water this past Saturday. Our pb did the startup but I wasn't around and don't meet with him until tomorrow for him to show us what he did and how he recommends to maintain it. I plan to see what he has to say but then quickly move on to the method recommended here. I already ordered and got the TF-100 test kit. Here are my results:

    FC - 0
    CC or TC - 0
    pH - 8.2
    TA - 40
    CH - 250
    CYA - 0

    I've done some reading on pool school on suggested levels and pool chemistry but still a little unsure of where to start. What do I work on first? CYA and then move on to FC? I'm not sure I did the pH test right. I used the kit and it only shows up to 8.2 but the color was definitely matching that if not a bit darker. Is it possible the pH is even higher than 8.2?
    21k gallon IG free form plaster/pebble pool, pentair FNS Plus DE filter, pentair sta-rite 2hp pump, pentair booster pump, pentair rainbow 320 IC and paramount ultraUV, Pool Build - 2015

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    Mod Squad JVTrain's Avatar
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    Re: New Owner w/Test Results

    First things first. I'm glad you're on board with TFP methods. They're successful for thousands of people and are the best methods I've found by far. However, typically there are warranties attached to new pool builds, especially plaster surfaces. Check your warranty. Is there any mandatory testing that has to be done at a pool store/builder? Must you comply with their recommended levels for chemistry? Do whatever you have to in order to make sure you comply with warranty requirements. Your warranty (if they stand behind it) is much more valuable than doing things the TFP way, for now.

    That being said, yes it's possible for your pH to be above 8.2. That's what you would normally address first. Then the CYA to get some in the pool. Then CH and TA adjustments while getting FC in line.

    But... new plaster start up is different. There are different ways to do it. Here are some known methods here: http://www.troublefreepool.com/conte...w-pool-plaster

    DO WHICHEVER START UP YOUR BUILDER RECOMMENDS TO PRESERVE YOUR WARRANTY.
    Joel - TFP Moderator - Minnesota - **Become a TFP Supporter!** Helpful Links: ABCs of Pool Water Chemistry - SLAM Procedure - Chlorine/CYA Chart
    40x20 Pool: 32K Gallons * Vinyl * Bleach Chlorination * Hayward S270T Sand Filter * Pentair SuperFlo 1 HP * Teledyne/Laars Heater * AquaVac Tigershark * TF-100 w/ SpeedStir
    Isolated Spa - 345 Gallons

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    Mod Squad tim5055's Avatar
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    Re: New Owner w/Test Results

    What Joel said!!

    I will only add that if you are going to follow TFP not to let him add any metal based algecides. If at all possible be there when they add the chemicals.

    He has installed a tab feeder, so I'm going to guess he recommends you use tabs for chlorination. With 0 CYA there is no problem using it now as long as they don't dump too much CYA in the pool in addition to the tabs.

    Most pool builders heads are going to spin around a few times if you start talking about liquid chlorine, so listening and not "pushing" TFP will probably go a long way. You just don't want them to add too much of something like CYA that will cause issues down the line.
    TFP Moderator 39 X 18 23,000(ish) freeform gunite; built 2007ish; Pentair Triton II TR100 600lb Sand filter; 2 HP Pentair pump with 2.2 HP AO Smith single speed motor; 2 skimmers, 1 main drain, 4 returns w/waterfall, Stenner 45MHP2 3GPD running@ 60% - 15 gal Tank; heated by the sun CYA 200+ when I started - 50 now. Dolphin Supreme M5 Pool Cleaner. Hot Springs SX Spa, 285 gallon

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    Re: New Owner w/Test Results

    I meet with him tomorrow so I'll see what he says I need to do. Nothing in the contract that I signed said any mandatory testing had to be done or any particular recommended levels for chemistry. I just read the startup info from the link you posted and I see it says to not swim during this time. We have been swimming every day since Sunday because the pb said it was fine. I know he added some acid to the pool when he first started it up on Saturday and I believe he added some more on Monday but I was out of town so not sure. I've been brushing the pool daily each morning. Should we stop swimming until the break-in period is over? How long is the break-in period?
    21k gallon IG free form plaster/pebble pool, pentair FNS Plus DE filter, pentair sta-rite 2hp pump, pentair booster pump, pentair rainbow 320 IC and paramount ultraUV, Pool Build - 2015

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    Mod Squad JVTrain's Avatar
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    Re: New Owner w/Test Results

    If they have given you no guidelines (or no warranty) then you're free to do whatever you like for a start up. Traditional startup (or acid start up, from the sounds of what your builder is doing) from that link would be fine. If you use a sequestrant, make sure you ONLY use Polyquat. Nothing that has copper or other metals in it.

    Swimming is up to you, but during traditional start up, no chlorine is added for 72 hours (3 days). If you're swimming in there, there's nothing to oxidize/eliminate bather waste (sweat, saliva... all that good stuff). The purpose of the Polyquat is to temporarily inhibit algae growth. It does nothing for sanitation.
    Joel - TFP Moderator - Minnesota - **Become a TFP Supporter!** Helpful Links: ABCs of Pool Water Chemistry - SLAM Procedure - Chlorine/CYA Chart
    40x20 Pool: 32K Gallons * Vinyl * Bleach Chlorination * Hayward S270T Sand Filter * Pentair SuperFlo 1 HP * Teledyne/Laars Heater * AquaVac Tigershark * TF-100 w/ SpeedStir
    Isolated Spa - 345 Gallons

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    Re: New Owner w/Test Results

    I do have a warranty but nothing that specified testing or adding any particular chemicals but I'll check tomorrow again when I meet with the pb. The pb did the startup using the acid method. I don't know what else he may have put in but I'll also find that out tomorrow and report back so then I can figure out what to do next. Thanks!
    21k gallon IG free form plaster/pebble pool, pentair FNS Plus DE filter, pentair sta-rite 2hp pump, pentair booster pump, pentair rainbow 320 IC and paramount ultraUV, Pool Build - 2015

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    Re: New Owner w/Test Results

    I met with the pb today to go over everything. I found out what he has added to the pool. He put in a gallon of muriatic acid, a gallon of liquid shock and added about 4-5 trichlor tabs to the IC this morning.. He had previously put in a quart of metal out and 2L of scale free. I'll run some tests this afternoon and post the results so I can get some help on what to do next.
    21k gallon IG free form plaster/pebble pool, pentair FNS Plus DE filter, pentair sta-rite 2hp pump, pentair booster pump, pentair rainbow 320 IC and paramount ultraUV, Pool Build - 2015

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    Re: New Owner w/Test Results

    Here are my latest test results after the pb put in a gallon of muriatic acid, a gallon of liquid shock and added the trichlor tabs to the IC this morning.

    FC - .5
    CC - .5
    pH - 6.8
    TA - 20
    CH - 150
    CYA - 0

    What should I do first? Get the TA up by adding baking soda? I assume the FC and CYA numbers will move up with the trichlor tabs over the next few days, right? Could the CH have gone down from 250 yesterday to 150 today just from what the pb added this morning?
    21k gallon IG free form plaster/pebble pool, pentair FNS Plus DE filter, pentair sta-rite 2hp pump, pentair booster pump, pentair rainbow 320 IC and paramount ultraUV, Pool Build - 2015

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    Mod Squad tim5055's Avatar
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    Re: New Owner w/Test Results

    Has he turned the pool over to you for start up?
    TFP Moderator 39 X 18 23,000(ish) freeform gunite; built 2007ish; Pentair Triton II TR100 600lb Sand filter; 2 HP Pentair pump with 2.2 HP AO Smith single speed motor; 2 skimmers, 1 main drain, 4 returns w/waterfall, Stenner 45MHP2 3GPD running@ 60% - 15 gal Tank; heated by the sun CYA 200+ when I started - 50 now. Dolphin Supreme M5 Pool Cleaner. Hot Springs SX Spa, 285 gallon

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    Re: New Owner w/Test Results

    Yes. He is available for any questions or issues but on me now to maintain.
    21k gallon IG free form plaster/pebble pool, pentair FNS Plus DE filter, pentair sta-rite 2hp pump, pentair booster pump, pentair rainbow 320 IC and paramount ultraUV, Pool Build - 2015

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    Re: New Owner w/Test Results

    Test results from today after adding 13 lbs of baking soda this morning.

    FC - 0
    CC - .5
    pH - 7.5
    TA - 70
    CH - 300
    CYA - 0

    The pb added the trichlor pucks yesterday but no chlorine or CYA showing up today. Also, could my CH really be bouncing that much from 250 -> 150 -> 300 in the course of 3 days or is it more likely I screwed up the test somehow? What is the best way to increase CYA so some chlorine will stay in the pool or should I just be patient and wait for the trichlor pucks to do their thing before switching over to using liquid bleach?
    21k gallon IG free form plaster/pebble pool, pentair FNS Plus DE filter, pentair sta-rite 2hp pump, pentair booster pump, pentair rainbow 320 IC and paramount ultraUV, Pool Build - 2015

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    Mod Squad pooldv's Avatar
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    Re: New Owner w/Test Results

    No, there might be an issue with how you are testing. Here is a video for the test, https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=icawkIa8jtg

    I have never used pucks so I don't know why they might not be adding chlorine to your pool. How do you plan to chlorinate longterm? You need to get some bleach or liquid chlorine in there quickly before it turns green. Add at least 2-3ppm of FC per day.

    Also need to add CYA.

    Have you read this?
    TFPC for Beginners
    and this?
    Recommended Pool Chemicals
    TFP Moderator
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    2012 build and pics, 20k gal gunite, black onyx pebblesheen, OK flagstone, IntellifoVS, cart filter w/Pleatco, IC40 SWG, Solartouch, 5 12'x4' solar panels, HP50HA heat pump, 8mil solar cover, borates, TF-100 test kit, SONOS, Doheny's Discovery Robot, hot tub on bleach

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    Re: New Owner w/Test Results

    I have read those articles. Long term I'd prefer to use liquid bleach to maintain the pool and not the trichlor pucks. Is CYA sold at any big box stores or just at pool stores? Could the gallon of shock the pb put in yesterday be effecting the tests or causing any side effects?
    21k gallon IG free form plaster/pebble pool, pentair FNS Plus DE filter, pentair sta-rite 2hp pump, pentair booster pump, pentair rainbow 320 IC and paramount ultraUV, Pool Build - 2015

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    Mod Squad tim5055's Avatar
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    Re: New Owner w/Test Results

    Liquid "shock" is generally 10% chlorine. I'm going to guess testing error in the CH. do you have a speed stir? My first thought is you are not swirling while adding the reagent.

    CYA is sold at the WalMart, Home Depot and Lowes by me here in SC. In WalMart its in the seasonal pool section and outside garden in the other two.
    TFP Moderator 39 X 18 23,000(ish) freeform gunite; built 2007ish; Pentair Triton II TR100 600lb Sand filter; 2 HP Pentair pump with 2.2 HP AO Smith single speed motor; 2 skimmers, 1 main drain, 4 returns w/waterfall, Stenner 45MHP2 3GPD running@ 60% - 15 gal Tank; heated by the sun CYA 200+ when I started - 50 now. Dolphin Supreme M5 Pool Cleaner. Hot Springs SX Spa, 285 gallon

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    Re: New Owner w/Test Results

    I do have a speed stir but maybe I just screwed it up yesterday during the test. I will test again tomorrow to see what happens. I'll go by lowes later and get some CYA and liquid bleach. Anything else you would suggest I do or just add the CYA and bleach?
    21k gallon IG free form plaster/pebble pool, pentair FNS Plus DE filter, pentair sta-rite 2hp pump, pentair booster pump, pentair rainbow 320 IC and paramount ultraUV, Pool Build - 2015

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    Mod Squad pooldv's Avatar
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    Re: New Owner w/Test Results

    Yes, I buy CYA at Lowes, it is called Stabilizer by Kemtek. They sell 10% liquid chlorine too. I usually buy Kroger brand concentrated bleach 8.25%, no easy pour or scented. It is on sale often enough and I just grab a few when it is. Haven't noticed if you have had an PH rise yet. You might want to grab some muriatic acid at Lowe's while you are there. Get the 31.45% on the pool aisle.
    TFP Moderator
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    2012 build and pics, 20k gal gunite, black onyx pebblesheen, OK flagstone, IntellifoVS, cart filter w/Pleatco, IC40 SWG, Solartouch, 5 12'x4' solar panels, HP50HA heat pump, 8mil solar cover, borates, TF-100 test kit, SONOS, Doheny's Discovery Robot, hot tub on bleach

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    Re: New Owner w/Test Results

    My pb added a gallon of the 31.45% muruatic acid the other day when the reading for the pH was over 8.2. My TA at the time was 40 but after he added the acid, the pH was 6.8 or lower and TA was 20. That was yesterday. This morning I added 13lbs of baking soda and then this afternoon I tested and pH was 7.5 and TA was 70. Should I add a little more baking soda to get TA to 70 but won't that also lower my pH? The pb left me with a couple more gallons of the acid so I think I'm set there and hopefully won't have to add more but not sure with a new pool if the plaster curing over the next few months to a year will cause me to need to keep adding acid. I found 8.25% clorox bleach at costco by me for $3.13/121oz. I'll probably pick some up and get the CYA from lowes or home depot tomorrow.
    21k gallon IG free form plaster/pebble pool, pentair FNS Plus DE filter, pentair sta-rite 2hp pump, pentair booster pump, pentair rainbow 320 IC and paramount ultraUV, Pool Build - 2015

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    Mod Squad pooldv's Avatar
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    Re: New Owner w/Test Results

    Yes, you will probably need to keep adding acid for a while, months anyway. It will gradually drop off over time. I would leave TA at 70 for a bit and see how it goes.

    You're doing great!
    TFP Moderator
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    2012 build and pics, 20k gal gunite, black onyx pebblesheen, OK flagstone, IntellifoVS, cart filter w/Pleatco, IC40 SWG, Solartouch, 5 12'x4' solar panels, HP50HA heat pump, 8mil solar cover, borates, TF-100 test kit, SONOS, Doheny's Discovery Robot, hot tub on bleach

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    Re: New Owner w/Test Results

    Picked up two 4lbs of stabilizer from home depot last night. Was thinking I would just add 4lbs. to start with so I don't overshoot the CYA. For the bleach, is the clorox concentrated bleach ok? It is 8.25% that I got from costco. My pH has shot up from 7.5 to about 8.2 so going to add about 3.75 cups of acid. Is there a particular order I should add these to the pool? Going to put the CYA in a tube sock but does it go in the skimmer or in front of a return? I've seen threads suggesting both so not sure. After that, should I put in the bleach first or the acid? I'll be running the pump while adding the chemicals and planned to add them at least 30-60 minutes apart but not sure if the order of adding them matters. Any suggestions on the best way to add the acid? For some reason, adding the acid to the pool makes me nervous.

    It is all slowly starting to make sense but just not confident yet that I'm doing the tests right and adding everything right so I really appreciate the feedback and guidance!
    21k gallon IG free form plaster/pebble pool, pentair FNS Plus DE filter, pentair sta-rite 2hp pump, pentair booster pump, pentair rainbow 320 IC and paramount ultraUV, Pool Build - 2015

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    Mod Squad tim5055's Avatar
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    Re: New Owner w/Test Results

    Most prefer hanging the sock in front of a return, but the skimmer will work also.

    I would add acid first, then have the pool circulate while you set up and hang the sock. 30 minutes after the acid went in you should be good to,add the bleach.

    Yes, the Clorox from Costco is fine.

    Confidence will come with repetition.

    I add my acid this way:
    Kneel on the pool deck
    Splash some water next to me on the deck
    Open bottle and partially submerge it in the pool
    Tilt and guesstimate the amount I want to add
    Bottle out of pool and set it on the puddle while recapping

    Always remember the fumes, nasty stuff

    Some people pour exact measurements to a cup, I just figure that's an extra step for me to spill the acid.
    TFP Moderator 39 X 18 23,000(ish) freeform gunite; built 2007ish; Pentair Triton II TR100 600lb Sand filter; 2 HP Pentair pump with 2.2 HP AO Smith single speed motor; 2 skimmers, 1 main drain, 4 returns w/waterfall, Stenner 45MHP2 3GPD running@ 60% - 15 gal Tank; heated by the sun CYA 200+ when I started - 50 now. Dolphin Supreme M5 Pool Cleaner. Hot Springs SX Spa, 285 gallon

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