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Thread: SC-60 Pool Pilot 24 hour maximum chlorine at Level 2?

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    SC-60 Pool Pilot 24 hour maximum chlorine at Level 2?

    This is most probably a question for Sean at Auto Pilot.

    A note to the moderator I realize that this might be somewhat of a "Deep End" question but my reasoning for posting it here is that Sean may not view the "Deep End" as often and I was looking for a quick answer as he is very good about answering questions quickly if viewed in this area. You are welcome to move it to the "Deep End" should you wish, either now, or preferably after he has answered the question, if you deem it appropriate. Thank you for your consideration of this note.

    If the SC-60 Pool Pilot 24 hour maximum chlorine production at Level 3 is 1.92 lbs, per the manual. What is the 24 hour maximum production at level 2, if the salt level is 3500 ppm?

    Or with an ORP control is the level irrelevant in that Level 1, 2, or 3 all produce at the same level, that being 100%, when the reading is lower than the set ORP?

    Another question, does the production level vary if it is near the set ORP level on the Digital unit? Example if the ORP is set at 690, and the shown ORP level is now 685, is the production reduced compared to a shown level of 660, in other words does it produce more at 660 than at 685. I know that once it surpasses the 690 level it switches off the chlorine production.

    Love the unit it works great, but still trying to understand the fine details.

    Your past help is much appreciated.

    Aloha
    10,000 gal plaster pool,3/4 hp WhisperFlo pump, Sta-Rite Great White GW9500 pool cleaner, Hayward 300 lb Sand Filter
    Use Magenta Stuff for Iron and Silica control.
    Balance: pH 7.7 Cl 7 -8 Alk 70-80 CH 325 CyA 30 in winter - 50 in summer NaCl 1010 TDS 1200

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    Re: SC-60 Pool Pilot 24 hour maximum chlorine at Level 2?

    Why don't you send him a PM?
    Dave S.
    42k vinyl and concrete pool, 1.5hp pump, 140gpm filter
    TFTestkits , PoolMath , Pool School

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    Re: SC-60 Pool Pilot 24 hour maximum chlorine at Level 2?

    Duraleigh,

    That is true and a good suggestion, I could do that. However I do not know how to PM, so if you could direct me how to this I will do it as well.

    But if your post meant just PM and do not post I have to disagree. Others, mostly Pool Pilot Digital owners and probably maybe not you or other non-Pool Pilot owners, might be interested in this post wherever it might end up. So if that is what was meant by your post, I would prefer to leave it here and if the moderator wants to move it that is fine by me, as stated above.

    Aloha.
    10,000 gal plaster pool,3/4 hp WhisperFlo pump, Sta-Rite Great White GW9500 pool cleaner, Hayward 300 lb Sand Filter
    Use Magenta Stuff for Iron and Silica control.
    Balance: pH 7.7 Cl 7 -8 Alk 70-80 CH 325 CyA 30 in winter - 50 in summer NaCl 1010 TDS 1200

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    Re: SC-60 Pool Pilot 24 hour maximum chlorine at Level 2?

    Well, I am not Sean, but I can answer part of your question. Changing the level does change the amount of chlorine the unit generates per unit time, though I don't know by how much exactly.

    ORP control turns the unit on and off in response to the ORP reading, but it doesn't change the level. However, you need to keep in mind that not all of the water will ever be at exactly the same ORP level. As water passes by the sensor the ORP level will vary. As you approach the set point the ORP level will start going above the set point for short periods and the unit will turn off till new water comes along that is below the set point. So even though the unit is not modulating the power level, the rate of chlorine generation will effectively slow down as the set point is approached, not because the power level varies, but because the unit is turning off and on in response to variations in the sensed ORP reading.

    I can't think of any way the issues raised by your questions could make any difference to how the unit behaves in practice. Sean is very helpful and will probably be glad to answer your questions when he comes along. But you could figure the answers out for yourself by watching the cell active indicator and the current and voltage levels in the Test Pool Pilot display as you approach the set point.

    If you have a practical question, such as what is the best power level to set the unit for, it would probably be better if you asked that directly, rather than trying to reverse engineer the unit and then figure out from that. On the other hand, if you just like trying to figure out how things work, then ignore this paragraph.
    19K gal, vinyl, 1/2 HP WhisperFlo pump, 200 sqft cartridge filter, AutoPilot Digital SWG, Dolphin Dynamic cleaning robot
    Creator of PoolMath and Pool Calculator. Other handy links: Support this site, TF Test Kits, Pool School

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    Re: SC-60 Pool Pilot 24 hour maximum chlorine at Level 2?

    JasonLion,

    Thank you for your answer. In truth I asked the same question of their tech support person although very polite they stated that they thought but were not sure that Power Level 2 gave a 66.7% production of 100%, or 66.7% of 1.92 lbs of Chlorine every 24 hours. The fact that they were not sure lead me top ask the question here.

    As you have figured out I am looking to a certain level of production based on my daily loss. If one knows, therefore, the production level in ozs, then it is fairly simple to figure this out. If the ORP starts at a lower level and then hits an optimum level one can lower ones turnover based on these numbers. Not an exact science I know but close enough to set a reasonable ORP level, for a given time. Except for "Test Cell " menu where the voltage and amps are indicated for a brief time the unit does not display this as a running commentary so that makes things a little more difficult.

    But based on your informative reply it seems that I will just have to use trial and error on the ORP level and time to get the desired FC level, and test at around 5 pm to 6 pm to see what my level is. If I set the unit to production only it does not control the acid. I would prefer to set the output level and have the acid automated, but this I am told by tech support is not possible.

    I hope this makes sense.

    However I would be interested to read what Sean has to say.

    Aloha.
    10,000 gal plaster pool,3/4 hp WhisperFlo pump, Sta-Rite Great White GW9500 pool cleaner, Hayward 300 lb Sand Filter
    Use Magenta Stuff for Iron and Silica control.
    Balance: pH 7.7 Cl 7 -8 Alk 70-80 CH 325 CyA 30 in winter - 50 in summer NaCl 1010 TDS 1200

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    Re: SC-60 Pool Pilot 24 hour maximum chlorine at Level 2?

    If you are using ORP based control, then adjust all your chemical levels manually, and then note the ORP reading (during the day) and use that as your set point. There isn't any point to figuring out your "daily loss" when using ORP based control, it takes care of all that.

    If you want to use percentage based chlorine control, you can, and still have the PH automation work. There is a mode for that somewhere.
    19K gal, vinyl, 1/2 HP WhisperFlo pump, 200 sqft cartridge filter, AutoPilot Digital SWG, Dolphin Dynamic cleaning robot
    Creator of PoolMath and Pool Calculator. Other handy links: Support this site, TF Test Kits, Pool School

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    Re: SC-60 Pool Pilot 24 hour maximum chlorine at Level 2?

    Theoretically, the amperage to the cell is directly proportional to the chlorine production.
    ie. @ 8 amps, Chlorine output is 1.92 per 24 hrs.
    therefore @ 6.5 amps, 6.5/8th x 1.92 = 1.56 lbs/day
    and @ 5.0 amps, 5/8 x 1.92 = 1.2 lbs/day

    In actuality, it is best to test the amount of chlorine produced at the Cell Power, for one hour. Multiply that by 24 and you get your lbs/day for that cell power. This does not always come out the same as the mathematical equation, due to the external influences of water chemistry, operating conditions, flow rates, water temps...etc.
    That's how NSF verifies chlorine production claims of manufacturers. They also run the same test by letting it run for 24 hrs and test the increase in chlorine level.

    The cells are energized to 100% whenever the ORP calls for chlorine. There is a period of time when the cell first gets energized for it to ramp up to full power. This is about 20 - 30 seconds. Similarly, when the cell turns off, there is a residual discharge of electricity that produces a little bit of chlorine. Not significant enough to worry about.

    Here's what you need to remember, if you are running at Cell Power 3, the cell will be energized for less time to achieve ORP set point, than at Cell Power 2, or Cell Power 1.

    My pool is 19,000 and I run my Cell Power to 2. No specific reason why.
    I have my set point at 640 mv, because that's what maintains my FC at 3 to 4 ppm...FOR MY PARTICULAR POOL.
    As all pools are different, I would not recommend using someone elses set points for your pool.

    Finally, as Jason mentioned, if you wanted to manually set your purifier setting, but automate your pH control, go to Maintenance Menu and DISABLE ORP.

    My direct e-mail is sean@teamhorner.com
    Sean Assam - Sean@teamhorner.com
    National Accounts and Commercial Products Manager
    AquaCal Heat Pumps www.aquacal.com
    AutoPilot Salt Chlorine Generators www.autopilot.com

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    Re: SC-60 Pool Pilot 24 hour maximum chlorine at Level 2?

    I don't want to "steal" the thread, but had a question brought on by seans reply, if I want to cut down my pump run time but achieve the same level of clorine output I would bump up my pwr level on the autopiliot? I just assumed that the pwr level was for more water capacity, and that keeping it on the lowest pwr level was better for the cell?

    bottom line, I live in elpaso and I don't close the pool, but I normally cut my pump run time down to 4 hours, right now at 8hrs of run time I am on pwr level 1 at 70% and maintain 4 FC, I know my clorine usage will go down, but at four hours of run time should I bump up my pwr level to 2? and experiment with the percentage its on, or leave it on pwr 1 and drop the percentage.

    Thanks

    Rob
    13,000 IG Plaster, 2hp whisperflo pump, 48 sq in pentair DE Filter, 1 skimmer, 2 eyeball outlets, 200 sq ft solar panels on second story, Auto Pilot SWG-36, Polaris ATV Cleaner

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    Re: SC-60 Pool Pilot 24 hour maximum chlorine at Level 2?

    Hey Rob,

    Remember that one of the features of the Pool Pilot is the automatic temperature compenstation. I would leave the settings as is, and adjust it as you determine is needed.
    In other words, when the water temperature decreases, the Pool Pilot's chlorine production will decrease also. When you switch to your 4 hours pump run time, IF the unit is not keeping up, then I would change to a higher Cell Power level.
    Keep in mind that at 55 degrees or colder, it is a fixed 1% output, which basically equates to about 9 seconds of the cell being energized every 15 minute cycle. However, there is little going on at these temperatures too.
    Sean Assam - Sean@teamhorner.com
    National Accounts and Commercial Products Manager
    AquaCal Heat Pumps www.aquacal.com
    AutoPilot Salt Chlorine Generators www.autopilot.com

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    Re: SC-60 Pool Pilot 24 hour maximum chlorine at Level 2?

    Thank you one and all.

    I learnt a lot from all of you, including Rockcrawler's question. Setting it at a run time of 4 1/2 hours, with a CyA of around 28 to 30 gives me a FC 4.5, if set to power level 2 and an ORP of 690. I realize now that each pool is different and that the FC fluctuates a little in the day but the end of day gives me about FC 4.5 and at night when I swim the ORP goes to about 705 -715, good enough to keep my grandkids bacteria free and the pool looking great.

    Today, Sunday, is a cloudy overcast day and as of 1:55pm, unit went on at 11 am, the generator as not fallen to 690 ORP, so no chlorine generation, the FC is still holding at an FC of around 4.5, amazing, actually 4.4 using FAS-DPD. Yesterday was sunnier and it did fall below that level between around 12:45 pm and 2:15 pm.

    Here are the numbers:

    Measured pH 7.50
    Total Alkalinity (ppm CaCO3) 60.0
    Free Chlorine (ppm Cl2) 4.50
    Cyanuric Acid (ppm CYA) 28.0
    Calcium Hardness (ppm CaCO3) 650.0
    Total Dissolved Solids (ppm) 3,687.0
    Total Sulfate (ppm SO42-) 0.0
    Total Borate (ppm Boron) 50.00
    Total Ammonia (ppm Nitrogen) 0.00
    U.S. Gallons 10,000
    Temperature (oF) 84

    Total Chloride (ppm NaCl) 3300.4
    Carbonate Alkalinity (ppm CaCO3) 44.1
    Langelier Saturation Index (LSI) -0.01
    % HOCl (vs. Total Free Chlorine) 1.6%
    OCl- (as ppm Cl2) 0.092
    HOCl (as ppm Cl2) 0.073
    Calcite Saturation Level (CSL) 0.70
    Calcite Saturation Index (CSI) -0.16

    Aloha.
    10,000 gal plaster pool,3/4 hp WhisperFlo pump, Sta-Rite Great White GW9500 pool cleaner, Hayward 300 lb Sand Filter
    Use Magenta Stuff for Iron and Silica control.
    Balance: pH 7.7 Cl 7 -8 Alk 70-80 CH 325 CyA 30 in winter - 50 in summer NaCl 1010 TDS 1200

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    Rockcrawler's Avatar
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    Re: SC-60 Pool Pilot 24 hour maximum chlorine at Level 2?

    Sean I was aware of the auto pilot temp compensation feature, and I did forget to figure that in when I asked the question, when I do switch my pump run time down to 4 hrs, which is in Nov, I will monitor it, along with water temp, I can not remember when my water gets down to 50, so this will be an interesting winter witht the auto pilot

    Thank again
    13,000 IG Plaster, 2hp whisperflo pump, 48 sq in pentair DE Filter, 1 skimmer, 2 eyeball outlets, 200 sq ft solar panels on second story, Auto Pilot SWG-36, Polaris ATV Cleaner

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