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Thread: ok think i have a grasp on bonding. lemme run this by you guys and gals.

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    Pool-creetin's Avatar
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    ok think i have a grasp on bonding. lemme run this by you guys and gals.

    Well i have a new pool to be installed roughly 6 weeks away. I am ocd about certain things Like safety Esp with electric.
    Heres my plans. I have a inground metal wall liner pool to be installed With steps in shallow end and ladder on deep end per code.
    ill be bonding atleast 4 spots of the metal wall pool with a continuous 8awg single strand bare copper wire w/ copper lugs. after they approve that backfill and prep for concrete is done for patio pad and chase around pool, run a cont 8awg bare wire 18 to 24 inches around pool connecting it to wire mesh used for concrete reinforcing via copper lugs more than a couple spots and wire tie the mesh together And run jumpers to the cups for ladder and handrail. Since coping is polymer i recon that does not need bonding.
    all the 8g copper bonds will be connected and tied into pump,heater,swg.
    anything i am missing?
    26x16 rockwood keyhole vynil inground, waterway cartridge filter and swg, variable speed pentair pump, extra large skimmer with 2 main drains in deep end and 2 returns,Rheem raypack 206 natural gas heater, hayward tigershark qc robot. Being installed in late may early june. Woot!

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    Pool-creetin's Avatar
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    Re: ok think i have a grasp on bonding. lemme run this by you guys and gals.

    Forgot to metion to ground water via skimmer box. Is there a 2 inch aftermarket product For this?
    26x16 rockwood keyhole vynil inground, waterway cartridge filter and swg, variable speed pentair pump, extra large skimmer with 2 main drains in deep end and 2 returns,Rheem raypack 206 natural gas heater, hayward tigershark qc robot. Being installed in late may early june. Woot!

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    Mod Squad tim5055's Avatar
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    Re: ok think i have a grasp on bonding. lemme run this by you guys and gals.

    Quote Originally Posted by Pool-creetin View Post
    Forgot to metion to ground water via skimmer box. Is there a 2 inch aftermarket product For this?
    Yes, I've seen them on line. A quick Google search should find them.

    Something like this
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    Re: ok think i have a grasp on bonding. lemme run this by you guys and gals.

    That is a reasonably good summary.

    All bonding connections need to be done with a connecter that is specifically rated for bonding. The wire mesh (or rebar) needs to extend from the pool wall expansion joint to at least 3' out horizontally from the water.

    You are also required to bond the water. If you have a pool heater it often counts as a water bond. It needs to have a conductive metal heat exchanger and be properly bonded it's self to qualify.

    If you have any underwater lights there are a number of additional steps for them.

    And if there is any other non-trivial metal parts within 3' of the water horizontally they will need to be bonded.
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    Pool-creetin's Avatar
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    Re: ok think i have a grasp on bonding. lemme run this by you guys and gals.

    ThankS jason, I have a heater with copper exchanger, since it was aboveground and could lose prime i didnt consider it, but the more bonding the better.
    the concrete chase will be 3 ft where it is not hooked to main paitio and all that will have wire mesh and also one side will have a short retaining wall, dunno if i need to run jumpers to the rebar as well, but i will. If i dont ill have that in the back of my mind.
    Tim thanks for the link!
    26x16 rockwood keyhole vynil inground, waterway cartridge filter and swg, variable speed pentair pump, extra large skimmer with 2 main drains in deep end and 2 returns,Rheem raypack 206 natural gas heater, hayward tigershark qc robot. Being installed in late may early june. Woot!

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    Re: ok think i have a grasp on bonding. lemme run this by you guys and gals.

    I was going to add some of the points Jason did, about the lights and metal stuff within 3', or whatever your local code says, like fences.
    24'x40' 25k gal Imperial Mountain Pond IGP, full 28 mil VynAll Ocean Breakers liner. All Hayward system: 140k BTU HeatPro heat pump, 3/4HP single speed TriStar 2" Pump, DE6020 filter, AquaPlus Automation/Salt Chlorination, remote controls, ColorLogic 4.0 lighting. Polaris 280 w/PB4-60 BP. TF100 & K1766 test kits. Rinox Palazzo pavers and Spherik coping. Pool installed 9/2013, project completed 6/16/14.

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    Re: ok think i have a grasp on bonding. lemme run this by you guys and gals.

    Quote Originally Posted by Pool-creetin View Post
    ThankS jason, I have a heater with copper exchanger, since it was aboveground and could lose prime i didnt consider it, but the more bonding the better.
    the concrete chase will be 3 ft where it is not hooked to main paitio and all that will have wire mesh and also one side will have a short retaining wall, dunno if i need to run jumpers to the rebar as well, but i will. If i dont ill have that in the back of my mind.
    Tim thanks for the link!
    Bond all wire mesh/rebar around the pool. Concrete is surprisingly conductive especially when wet. Remember, bonding is not grounding. bonding is to bring all conductive items into the same electrical potential so there is no measurable difference. From the Wikipedia page, here is the technical term...
    An electric potential (also called the electric field potential or the electrostatic potential) is the amount of electric potential energy that a unitary point electric charge would have if located at any point of space, and is equal to the work done by an electric field in carrying a unit positive charge from infinity to that point.

    to better understand how potential works, think of a static shock. When you shuffle your feet across the carpet you build up an electrical charge. You don't feet it because you are at one voltage potential and somewhat insulated from a differing potential such as the floor. As soon as you touch something such as a doorknob that has a large capacitance (ability to hold a charge) and it is at a different potential than you are you will feel the shock.
    The same thing happens around a pool. The concrete deck for example is at one voltage potential and the water may be at a different potential. If this voltage difference is great enough, you will feel the shock when you become the conductor between the two. The bonding prevents this by electrically tying all of the components together to even out the potential (difference) between the items. It doesn't necessarily drain it off to any place, it just evens it out so you and the surrounding area are all the same.
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    Pool-creetin's Avatar
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    Re: ok think i have a grasp on bonding. lemme run this by you guys and gals.

    Thanks all! Going to order my tf 100 soon with cya refills.
    I opted out of the lights. My last pool,had lights, no one wanted them on, and when they were on they just attracted bugs. June bugs were bad, but i would find huge bugs i never seen before. Lol

    - - - Updated - - -

    Thanks danpk, good explanation!
    i am installing a vinyl privacy fence around yard, at the closest pont it will be 12 feet from the pool And not in contact with any pool equip or deck/patio.
    26x16 rockwood keyhole vynil inground, waterway cartridge filter and swg, variable speed pentair pump, extra large skimmer with 2 main drains in deep end and 2 returns,Rheem raypack 206 natural gas heater, hayward tigershark qc robot. Being installed in late may early june. Woot!

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    Mod Squad JohnT's Avatar
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    Re: ok think i have a grasp on bonding. lemme run this by you guys and gals.

    Quote Originally Posted by Pool-creetin View Post
    Thanks all! Going to order my tf 100 soon with cya refills.
    I opted out of the lights. My last pool,had lights, no one wanted them on, and when they were on they just attracted bugs. June bugs were bad, but i would find huge bugs i never seen before. Lol
    We never use our lights while swimming, but they are a good safety feature. A flip of the switch tells you the pool is empty. Especially nice to check for critters before swimming in the evening

    Four tiki torches give us plenty of light to see while swimming without drawing bugs to the water.
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    Pool-creetin's Avatar
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    Re: ok think i have a grasp on bonding. lemme run this by you guys and gals.

    Yeah that is a good thing to see if someone is poolhopping. i have 4 patio lights that light the backyard like a prison escape lol. Plus local code requires me to have alarms on all doors leading to pool. Dont get me wrong i am probably the only one that likes the lights, every light i have ever owned always Developed a leak though.
    26x16 rockwood keyhole vynil inground, waterway cartridge filter and swg, variable speed pentair pump, extra large skimmer with 2 main drains in deep end and 2 returns,Rheem raypack 206 natural gas heater, hayward tigershark qc robot. Being installed in late may early june. Woot!

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    ok think i have a grasp on bonding. lemme run this by you guys and gals.

    Funny, I don't think our light is ever off! We have it set on the timer in the aquaplus panel, so even when not in the pool, we just like how it looks in the backyard.
    24'x40' 25k gal Imperial Mountain Pond IGP, full 28 mil VynAll Ocean Breakers liner. All Hayward system: 140k BTU HeatPro heat pump, 3/4HP single speed TriStar 2" Pump, DE6020 filter, AquaPlus Automation/Salt Chlorination, remote controls, ColorLogic 4.0 lighting. Polaris 280 w/PB4-60 BP. TF100 & K1766 test kits. Rinox Palazzo pavers and Spherik coping. Pool installed 9/2013, project completed 6/16/14.

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    Re: ok think i have a grasp on bonding. lemme run this by you guys and gals.

    The connectors use for the bond wires are sold rated for direct burial and not for direct burial. The only difference is the little set screw and the material it's made from, but if you're getting inspected, the direct burial ones are required if the connector is... buried. The way they check for it is a little white tag on the connector.
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    Pool-creetin's Avatar
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    Re: ok think i have a grasp on bonding. lemme run this by you guys and gals.

    Went to elec supply today, picked up lugs and 8ga awg single strand copper and 2 gfci 20 amp breakers. I hot the stainless set screw lugs. Greaves brand. No white sticker but a identificaton number on them. 6 weeks away and i am ocd on the electrical and i didnt even break ground. No pun.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Copper lugs with stainless set screws, gonna use stainless sheet metal screws to set them on the pool.
    26x16 rockwood keyhole vynil inground, waterway cartridge filter and swg, variable speed pentair pump, extra large skimmer with 2 main drains in deep end and 2 returns,Rheem raypack 206 natural gas heater, hayward tigershark qc robot. Being installed in late may early june. Woot!

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    steveg_nh's Avatar
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    Re: ok think i have a grasp on bonding. lemme run this by you guys and gals.

    All the lugs my guy used had "DB" stamped right on them, for direct burial. That was what my inspector was looking for.
    24'x40' 25k gal Imperial Mountain Pond IGP, full 28 mil VynAll Ocean Breakers liner. All Hayward system: 140k BTU HeatPro heat pump, 3/4HP single speed TriStar 2" Pump, DE6020 filter, AquaPlus Automation/Salt Chlorination, remote controls, ColorLogic 4.0 lighting. Polaris 280 w/PB4-60 BP. TF100 & K1766 test kits. Rinox Palazzo pavers and Spherik coping. Pool installed 9/2013, project completed 6/16/14.

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    Re: ok think i have a grasp on bonding. lemme run this by you guys and gals.

    Should have clarified that lazy inspectors like to look for the little white tag that's on a lot of them. It's silly really because those basically fall off as you tighten the connectors to rebar/etc, and you could just pull that tag off some other connector. The actual DB stamping (or similar that indicated for direct burial) is the real thing to prove it is what it's supposed to be.
    14k Gallon IG Gunite Pool | 13'x29' Rectangle with 13' x 4' Sun Shelf (shallow end)
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    Pool-creetin's Avatar
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    Re: ok think i have a grasp on bonding. lemme run this by you guys and gals.

    BTL4-DB is what mine say. Made me wnder for a bit because i didnt have a white sticker.
    26x16 rockwood keyhole vynil inground, waterway cartridge filter and swg, variable speed pentair pump, extra large skimmer with 2 main drains in deep end and 2 returns,Rheem raypack 206 natural gas heater, hayward tigershark qc robot. Being installed in late may early june. Woot!

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