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Thread: High Pressure constantly - Cartridge Problem?

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    High Pressure constantly - Cartridge Problem?

    Hi, thanks for the forum, I've read some great stuff. I've seen a similar question to mine, but I'm trying to clarify a bit...

    I have a 4 cartridge Hayward filter with 9 month old Pleatco cartridges (not sure of size or model right now, but some details in the signature). I've been in my house a year and soon after I moved in I saw the pressure was high, about 32psi. I cleaned them a bunch of times, and finally just bought new ones since I wasn't sure how old they were. Soon after the pressure went from 16-18 back up to 32 again, and it's been happening constantly since last summer. This winter I didn't worry about it much, but now that it's warmed up the algae came back and the system can't clean it out. I've literally cleaned them dozens of times, even 2x a day and it goes back down to 18psi for an hour, then right back up. The water is back to clean and clear right now thanks to Pool First Aid, but the waterfall is trickling so I know it's not moving the water enough and algae will be back soon... I've had a pro clean them and used the spray on cleaner, no help. I'm about to buy new cartridges, but fear i'll be back in the high pressure situation soon after. Pool store tested the water, FC was low (.2) to the total of 2.8, but even when it's been right on, it still clogs back up. Pool store thought maybe it was hard water, but he said that wasn't it...don't have the reading with me right now.

    I've had 4 pros out to figure out why this keeps happening, but nobody can figure it out, I'm going to see if Hayward can send a tech out. Can't imagine it's so rare? Thought maybe a clog in a pipe that clears momentarily after I clean it comes back? I know it's not just a gauge problem because the waterfall trickles when it's clogged.

    Quick Question: Can I run the filter without the cartridges in the system just to see if the pressure stays low? That would eliminate a clog somewhere in the system I guess...

    Thanks for any help for a newbie... Jeff
    Katy (Houston, TX) - 15,000 gallon In Ground free form kidney shaped 30'x15' pool with Pebble surface. Spa - 8' round with waterfall. Hayward Swimclear Cartridge filter (not sure which model though - maybe C3025?). Pleatco replacement cartridges x 4, 1.5HP Hayward Century Pump, Hayward Booster Pump (model 6060). Chlorine tab dispenser, which I won't be using. Polaris cleaner. TF-100.

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    Mod Squad pooldv's Avatar
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    Re: High Pressure constantly - Cartridge Problem?

    Hi, welcome to TFP!
    Unfortunately, I'd bet a dollar that you have algae and the algae is clogging filter. How do you chlorinate your pool? What is your CYA level?

    You need to order a TF100 test kit from tftestkits.net, get the extended version and the speedstir while you're there. You can read up on test kits here, Test Kit Comparison

    Then read this, ABC's of Pool Water Chemistry
    And this, Recommended Levels

    You will need to SLAM your pool, SLAMing Your Pool

    One more thing. For now Add a little more info to your signature, What we need to know to answer your questions and is it Katy, TX?
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    Re: High Pressure constantly - Cartridge Problem?

    Quote Originally Posted by pooldv View Post
    Hi, welcome to TFP!
    Unfortunately, I'd bet a dollar that you have algae and the algae is clogging filter. How do you chlorinate your pool? What is your CYA level?

    You need to order a TF100 test kit from tftestkits.net, get the extended version and the speedstir while you're there. You can read up on test kits here, Test Kit Comparison

    Then read this, ABC's of Pool Water Chemistry
    And this, Recommended Levels

    You will need to SLAM your pool, SLAMing Your Pool

    One more thing. For now Add a little more info to your signature, What we need to know to answer your questions and is it Katy, TX?
    Ok, thank you for that, i'll study up and add to the signature. To ease my mind though, if that's the problem, and I fix it, will the cartridges ever get back to normal, or are they just forever clogged - and I need new ones?
    Katy (Houston, TX) - 15,000 gallon In Ground free form kidney shaped 30'x15' pool with Pebble surface. Spa - 8' round with waterfall. Hayward Swimclear Cartridge filter (not sure which model though - maybe C3025?). Pleatco replacement cartridges x 4, 1.5HP Hayward Century Pump, Hayward Booster Pump (model 6060). Chlorine tab dispenser, which I won't be using. Polaris cleaner. TF-100.

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    Mod Squad pooldv's Avatar
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    Re: High Pressure constantly - Cartridge Problem?

    They will return to clean pressure and stay there longer. I had algae a couple of years ago and it would clog the filters in a day. Others have too. My Pleatco cartridges seem to have done better than my Pentair cartridges in the long run.
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    Re: High Pressure constantly - Cartridge Problem?

    To add to what pooldv says. Filters will NEVER clear algae from a pool.....ti simply grows right back. Chlorine is needed to clear your pool and then the cartridges will filter out the dead algae and, as long as you keep your chlorine levels adequate, your filters will behave normally.

    read "The ABC's of Pool Water Chemistry" up in Pool School.
    Dave S.
    42k vinyl and concrete pool, 1.5hp pump, 140gpm filter
    TFTestkits , PoolMath , Pool School

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    Re: High Pressure constantly - Cartridge Problem?

    You are on the right path!

    Finding TFP and asking questions is the first step.

    The next step is listening to the above posters-
    -Fill in your info.
    -buy a GOOD test kit of your own
    -reading ABC of pools

    I know the pool store will test your water for free BUT it is really free if you have to buy the stuff needed to "fix" your water? Your filters are saying otherwise...........

    Good luck!

    Kim
    TFP Moderator 33x52 round AG 25,600 gals Sand Filter 1.5hp Pump - 2 Speed, SLAM, Pool School, Recommended Levels, Recommended Chemicals, Pool Math, Chlorine/CYA Chart, TF-100 Test Kit

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    Re: High Pressure constantly - Cartridge Problem?

    Thanks for the help everyone, I feel like I'm getting on the right track now. Few follow up questions though:

    1. I ordered a TF-100 kit and should have it this week, so I plan to start SLAM'ing this next weekend.
    2. I'm trying to plan ahead with bleach on hand, but not sure how much I'll need to buy. I had the pool store test in the mean time and the CYA "shocked" me:
    CYA 128
    Tot Chlorine .6
    FC .4
    pH 7.6
    TA 87
    Tot. Hardness (is this CH?) 146
    3. So, with my TFP studying, that tells me that with this high CYA, I'll need to add more chlorine to have the same affect? So, I'll need to lower my CYA before SLAM'ing.
    And this CYA is most likely due to constant use of tabs for at least the last year...
    4. What is the best way to lower my CYA? I'm guessing, from what I read, that I need to replace the water... I'm not sure how to do that, so hopefully I can find a post.
    5. My most pressing question though: In cleaning the filters (AGAIN!) this weekend, I couldn't get the Manual Air Release valve fully closed and when I looked inside the valve, i could see an o ring coming out. I found out that this was also causing the skimmer basket (?), the one cleaning the water right before going into the filter itself was not filling up, I'm guessing the o-ring was causing a leak? So, I got the o-ring out, but now can't figure out how to get it back into the Manual Air Release (MAR) valve? I'll try to attach some pics, and may start another thread just on this topic, because it's important, until I get the MAR fixed, I can't fully close it (or run the filter or SLAM next week...)

    Thanks for any input, Jeff
    Katy (Houston, TX) - 15,000 gallon In Ground free form kidney shaped 30'x15' pool with Pebble surface. Spa - 8' round with waterfall. Hayward Swimclear Cartridge filter (not sure which model though - maybe C3025?). Pleatco replacement cartridges x 4, 1.5HP Hayward Century Pump, Hayward Booster Pump (model 6060). Chlorine tab dispenser, which I won't be using. Polaris cleaner. TF-100.

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    O-Ring came out of my Manual Air Relief (MAR) Valve - How can I get it back in?

    I have a few issues I'm working on, but: My most pressing question is: In cleaning the filter cartridges this weekend, I couldn't get the Manual Air Release (MAR) valve fully closed and when I looked inside the valve, i could see an o-ring sticking halfway out. (I'm guessing that this was likely also causing the skimmer basket (?), the one cleaning the water right before going into the filter itself was not completely filling up, I'm guessing the o-ring was causing an air leak?) So, I got the o-ring out, but now can't figure out how to get it back into the Manual Air Release (MAR) valve? I'll try to attach some pics if I can...

    It's a Hayward Swimclear 4 cartridge filter (not sure, but I think it's a C3025), with Pleatco replacements inside.

    This o-ring problem is really important, until I get the MAR fixed, I can't fully close it (or run the filter or SLAM next week...)

    Thanks for any input, Jeff
    Attached Images Attached Images
    Katy (Houston, TX) - 15,000 gallon In Ground free form kidney shaped 30'x15' pool with Pebble surface. Spa - 8' round with waterfall. Hayward Swimclear Cartridge filter (not sure which model though - maybe C3025?). Pleatco replacement cartridges x 4, 1.5HP Hayward Century Pump, Hayward Booster Pump (model 6060). Chlorine tab dispenser, which I won't be using. Polaris cleaner. TF-100.

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    Re: High Pressure constantly - Cartridge Problem?

    The reason for the high CYA is in your signature, "tab dispenser". At this point I would wait for the test kit toverify high CYA (pool store are notorious for getting this wrong), but be ready for a substantial water exchange. Assuming the number is close, you are,looking at a 50% drain & refill.
    TFP Moderator 39 X 18 23,000(ish) freeform gunite; built 2007ish; Pentair Triton II TR100 600lb Sand filter; 2 HP Pentair pump with 2.2 HP AO Smith single speed motor; 2 skimmers, 1 main drain, 4 returns w/waterfall, Stenner 45MHP2 3GPD running@ 60% - 15 gal Tank; heated by the sun CYA 200+ when I started - 50 now. Dolphin Supreme M5 Pool Cleaner. Hot Springs SX Spa, 285 gallon

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    Re: High Pressure constantly - Cartridge Problem?

    Thanks tim5055, I see in your signature that your CYA was over 200 and now is 50, did you replace the water too? Have you seen posts on how to remove water?
    Katy (Houston, TX) - 15,000 gallon In Ground free form kidney shaped 30'x15' pool with Pebble surface. Spa - 8' round with waterfall. Hayward Swimclear Cartridge filter (not sure which model though - maybe C3025?). Pleatco replacement cartridges x 4, 1.5HP Hayward Century Pump, Hayward Booster Pump (model 6060). Chlorine tab dispenser, which I won't be using. Polaris cleaner. TF-100.

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    Re: High Pressure constantly - Cartridge Problem?

    Jeff,

    Please keep your thread simple for us. Solve one problem at a time.

    The pressure relief valve, pump running, should leak water, not air. Perhaps some air when you first start the pump but then switching over to water.
    I found out that this was also causing the skimmer basket (?), the one cleaning the water right before going into the filter itself was not filling up,
    No, that o-ring has nothing to do with the pump strainer basket not filling up.

    RE: getting the 0-ring back in.....doesn't it fit down inside the body of the pressure relief valve? I would think you could remove the orange lever and the o-ring likely goes somewhere in a slot or groove down inside the black body, then put the orange lever back in.
    Dave S.
    42k vinyl and concrete pool, 1.5hp pump, 140gpm filter
    TFTestkits , PoolMath , Pool School

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    Re: High Pressure constantly - Cartridge Problem?

    Quote Originally Posted by duraleigh View Post
    RE: getting the 0-ring back in.....doesn't it fit down inside the body of the pressure relief valve? I would think you could remove the orange lever and the o-ring likely goes somewhere in a slot or groove down inside the black body, then put the orange lever back in.
    Thanks Dave, point taken on the thread.

    That's what I'm thinking re: the O-ring, if I can get the orange lever out, the ring must fit in there, and then slide the orange lever back in. I've been trying but I can't get the orange lever out, and don't want to break it, but i'll try again, seems like the only way it can go in...

    Thanks, will let you know, Jeff
    Katy (Houston, TX) - 15,000 gallon In Ground free form kidney shaped 30'x15' pool with Pebble surface. Spa - 8' round with waterfall. Hayward Swimclear Cartridge filter (not sure which model though - maybe C3025?). Pleatco replacement cartridges x 4, 1.5HP Hayward Century Pump, Hayward Booster Pump (model 6060). Chlorine tab dispenser, which I won't be using. Polaris cleaner. TF-100.

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    Re: High Pressure constantly - Cartridge Problem?

    Quote Originally Posted by Jeffc2112 View Post
    Thanks tim5055, I see in your signature that your CYA was over 200 and now is 50, did you replace the water too? Have you seen posts on how to remove water?
    I was lucky that I did not have algae and could take my time replacing water. Aggressive vacuuming to waste, a few partial drain and fills and harvesting rain water from a downspout over a year got me down.
    TFP Moderator 39 X 18 23,000(ish) freeform gunite; built 2007ish; Pentair Triton II TR100 600lb Sand filter; 2 HP Pentair pump with 2.2 HP AO Smith single speed motor; 2 skimmers, 1 main drain, 4 returns w/waterfall, Stenner 45MHP2 3GPD running@ 60% - 15 gal Tank; heated by the sun CYA 200+ when I started - 50 now. Dolphin Supreme M5 Pool Cleaner. Hot Springs SX Spa, 285 gallon

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    Re: High Pressure constantly - Cartridge Problem?

    Replacing water-------starting a siphon with a water hose or renting a pump from Home Depot or buying a cheap one from Harbor Freight.

    I would (and have) buy one just so you have it and in case you need it again.

    When you go to take some water out make sure to NOT let it get too low in the shallow end. You do NOT want to take the chance of causing damage. It would be better to have to drain and refill a couple of times to keep your pool safe.

    Kim
    TFP Moderator 33x52 round AG 25,600 gals Sand Filter 1.5hp Pump - 2 Speed, SLAM, Pool School, Recommended Levels, Recommended Chemicals, Pool Math, Chlorine/CYA Chart, TF-100 Test Kit

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    Re: High Pressure constantly - Cartridge Problem?

    Thanks Tim and Kim, good advice.

    Dave - I did break the orange lever, lol, but was able to get the lever off, replace the o-ring, and will try to glue it back together for now. Thanks for the help, this will help me get back to work on the pool!

    Jeff
    Katy (Houston, TX) - 15,000 gallon In Ground free form kidney shaped 30'x15' pool with Pebble surface. Spa - 8' round with waterfall. Hayward Swimclear Cartridge filter (not sure which model though - maybe C3025?). Pleatco replacement cartridges x 4, 1.5HP Hayward Century Pump, Hayward Booster Pump (model 6060). Chlorine tab dispenser, which I won't be using. Polaris cleaner. TF-100.

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    Re: High Pressure constantly - Cartridge Problem?

    Use a 2part epoxy for plastic to fix the lever.

    Assuming that your cya is 100, according to Chlorine CYA Chart you need to target FC of 12 and min of 8 or you are going to grow algae. Use PoolMath to determine how much bleach to add and add 2-3 ppm daily to keep it around 12.
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    Re: High Pressure constantly - Cartridge Problem?

    Quote Originally Posted by pooldv View Post
    Use a 2part epoxy for plastic to fix the lever.

    Assuming that your cya is 100, according to Chlorine CYA Chart you need to target FC of 12 and min of 8 or you are going to grow algae. Use PoolMath to determine how much bleach to add and add 2-3 ppm daily to keep it around 12.
    GREAT! Thanks, I just got back from home depot with a 2 part epoxy!

    Thanks for the help on the bleach, I'll work on the amounts I'll need. In your opinion, should I replace water to lower my CYA?

    Thanks, Jeff
    Katy (Houston, TX) - 15,000 gallon In Ground free form kidney shaped 30'x15' pool with Pebble surface. Spa - 8' round with waterfall. Hayward Swimclear Cartridge filter (not sure which model though - maybe C3025?). Pleatco replacement cartridges x 4, 1.5HP Hayward Century Pump, Hayward Booster Pump (model 6060). Chlorine tab dispenser, which I won't be using. Polaris cleaner. TF-100.

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    Re: High Pressure constantly - Cartridge Problem?

    Quote Originally Posted by Jeffc2112 View Post
    GREAT! Thanks, I just got back from home depot with a 2 part epoxy!

    Thanks for the help on the bleach, I'll work on the amounts I'll need. In your opinion, should I replace water to lower my CYA?

    Thanks, Jeff
    i would wait for my own test kit. Pool stores mess up the CYA test more than anything else.

    If you test it high, then yes replace water befor the SLAM to save on bleach.
    TFP Moderator 39 X 18 23,000(ish) freeform gunite; built 2007ish; Pentair Triton II TR100 600lb Sand filter; 2 HP Pentair pump with 2.2 HP AO Smith single speed motor; 2 skimmers, 1 main drain, 4 returns w/waterfall, Stenner 45MHP2 3GPD running@ 60% - 15 gal Tank; heated by the sun CYA 200+ when I started - 50 now. Dolphin Supreme M5 Pool Cleaner. Hot Springs SX Spa, 285 gallon

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    Mod Squad pooldv's Avatar
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    Re: High Pressure constantly - Cartridge Problem?

    Agreed on waiting for the tf100 test.
    TFP Moderator
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    2012 build and pics, 20k gal gunite, black onyx pebblesheen, OK flagstone, IntellifoVS, cart filter w/Pleatco, IC40 SWG, Solartouch, 5 12'x4' solar panels, HP50HA heat pump, 8mil solar cover, borates, TF-100 test kit, SONOS, Doheny's Discovery Robot, hot tub on bleach

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    Re: High Pressure constantly - Cartridge Problem?

    Quote Originally Posted by pooldv View Post
    Agreed on waiting for the tf100 test.
    Sounds good pooldv and tim, I'll do that.

    Also, pooldv, the 2 part epoxy seemed to work, the lever is pretty solid, but I'm going to let it cure overnight to be sure.

    Thanks, Jeff
    Katy (Houston, TX) - 15,000 gallon In Ground free form kidney shaped 30'x15' pool with Pebble surface. Spa - 8' round with waterfall. Hayward Swimclear Cartridge filter (not sure which model though - maybe C3025?). Pleatco replacement cartridges x 4, 1.5HP Hayward Century Pump, Hayward Booster Pump (model 6060). Chlorine tab dispenser, which I won't be using. Polaris cleaner. TF-100.

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