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Thread: Trying to SLAM with questions

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    Trying to SLAM with questions

    Okay, my CYA is showing 10. Last year it was 40. No water level changes since last season. My pool temperature is 59 degrees. Does that matter on CYA readings?

    PH - 8.0 +

    I am trying to keep my pool at 12 ppm (Shock level), but it is dropping so fast. Within 1.5 hours it dropped from 12 to 2.4.

    Pool is cloudy Grayish Green and hasn't changed in 3 days with 12" depth visibility. Suggestions?
    KGK
    23K, IG Vinyl, Sand Filter, 1.25 HP

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    Mod Squad tim5055's Avatar
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    Re: Trying to SLAM with questions

    With the drop in CYA and high chlorine demand I'm betting that you have an ammonia issue happening.

    Can you update your profile to include city/state so we can better answer questions.
    TFP Moderator 39 X 18 23,000(ish) freeform gunite; built 2007ish; Pentair Triton II TR100 600lb Sand filter; 2 HP Pentair pump with 2.2 HP AO Smith single speed motor; 2 skimmers, 1 main drain, 4 returns w/waterfall, Stenner 45MHP2 3GPD running@ 60% - 15 gal Tank; heated by the sun CYA 200+ when I started - 50 now. Dolphin Supreme M5 Pool Cleaner. Hot Springs SX Spa, 285 gallon

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    Re: Trying to SLAM with questions

    From what I have read on here, you need to lower you PH to about 7.2 you have to have FC lower than 10 when lowering it to get an accurate PH lever.

    I will let someone else chime in on CYA level, I think you want your CYA at least around 30 when slamming.
    Lisa
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    Re: Trying to SLAM with questions

    Quote Originally Posted by tim5055 View Post
    With the drop in CYA and high chlorine demand I'm betting that you have an ammonia issue happening.

    Can you update your profile to include city/state so we can better answer questions.
    I am in SW Missouri. I am worried of ammonia also.

    Any suggestions?
    KGK
    23K, IG Vinyl, Sand Filter, 1.25 HP

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    Re: Trying to SLAM with questions

    If your CYA broke down into Ammonia, what you're describing is normal. Many people report the FC disappears almost as fast as they can pour the bleach in. The fact that you still have some FC after 1.5 hours and that the color is going green to gery shows you are making forward progress. With such low CYA, a lot of the FC is lost to sunlight. As mentioned, try raising CYA to 30ish for now, and keep FC at 12 to go with that. It didn't go green and murky in a day, it won't clear that fast, either.
    16K freeform gunite with spa; Pentair 4000 DE filter; Century Whisperflow 1 HP; Pentair Minimax heater.
    Troublefree does not mean Maintenancefree. It's like brushing your teeth: You can spend a couple minutes a day and pennies a week or go to the dentist once a year and spend several thousand dollars.
    A pool is like a pet - you have to feed it every day, even the days you don't want to play with it!

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    Re: Trying to SLAM with questions

    Quote Originally Posted by Richard320 View Post
    If your CYA broke down into Ammonia, what you're describing is normal. Many people report the FC disappears almost as fast as they can pour the bleach in. The fact that you still have some FC after 1.5 hours and that the color is going green to gray shows you are making forward progress. With such low CYA, a lot of the FC is lost to sunlight. As mentioned, try raising CYA to 30ish for now, and keep FC at 12 to go with that. It didn't go green and murky in a day, it won't clear that fast, either.
    I'm concerned that as the temperature rises the CYA reading may go up. Is there any misreadings in CYA due to low temperatures? I don't want to have to drain any water to fix a high CYA problem later on (but I am a rookie so I greatly appreciate the input!!!).
    KGK
    23K, IG Vinyl, Sand Filter, 1.25 HP

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    Re: Trying to SLAM with questions

    Whether it's ammonia, or algae, the answer to fix it is Free Chlorine. Sometimes a lot of it. With enough for long enough, the problem will be solved.
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    Re: Trying to SLAM with questions

    KGK,

    reread Patrick_B's post......it's VERY essential to understanding the nature of the SLAM.
    Whether it's ammonia, or algae, the answer to fix it is Free Chlorine. Sometimes a lot of it. With enough for long enough, the problem will be solved.
    If you have ammonia it is absolutely no big deal.......just continue the SLAM and follow the instructions to the letter.

    PS - How did you get a 10 ppm on CYA test.....the test doesn't go that low.
    Dave S.
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    Re: Trying to SLAM with questions

    Quote Originally Posted by Patrick_B View Post
    Whether it's ammonia, or algae, the answer to fix it is Free Chlorine. Sometimes a lot of it. With enough for long enough, the problem will be solved.
    Should I raise my level greater than 12?

    - - - Updated - - -

    Sorry, I just read the rest of your post. I will reread the SLAM and continue on ....
    KGK
    23K, IG Vinyl, Sand Filter, 1.25 HP

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    Re: Trying to SLAM with questions

    Quote Originally Posted by KGK View Post
    Should I raise my level greater than 12?

    - - - Updated - - -

    Sorry, I just read the rest of your post. I will reread the SLAM and continue on ....
    12 FC corresponds with 30 CYA. If you're truly at 10 CYA, shock level is 10 FC. And yeah, that 10 CYA is a puzzler, too. What tester are you using.
    16K freeform gunite with spa; Pentair 4000 DE filter; Century Whisperflow 1 HP; Pentair Minimax heater.
    Troublefree does not mean Maintenancefree. It's like brushing your teeth: You can spend a couple minutes a day and pennies a week or go to the dentist once a year and spend several thousand dollars.
    A pool is like a pet - you have to feed it every day, even the days you don't want to play with it!

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    Re: Trying to SLAM with questions

    Quote Originally Posted by duraleigh View Post
    KGK,

    reread Patrick_B's post......it's VERY essential to understanding the nature of the SLAM.If you have ammonia it is absolutely no big deal.......just continue the SLAM and follow the instructions to the letter.

    PS - How did you get a 10 ppm on CYA test.....the test doesn't go that low.
    Good question, my test stops at 30 but the water was still fairly clear and I could see the dot very well. I took a sample over to my local pool dealer and they did the testing and gave me that result. They told me not to add stabilizer because the temperatures is too cold and I have a false reading ??
    KGK
    23K, IG Vinyl, Sand Filter, 1.25 HP

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    Re: Trying to SLAM with questions

    Quote Originally Posted by KGK View Post
    I'm concerned that as the temperature rises the CYA reading may go up. Is there any misreadings in CYA due to low temperatures? I don't want to have to drain any water to fix a high CYA problem later on (but I am a rookie so I greatly appreciate the input!!!).
    I have tested some for CYA at lower temperatures and it didn't work as well, but that was when I was first getting the hang of the test. What I would do to assure a good result is take your sample and let it come to room temperature indoors. Then perform the test. Unlike FC or CC, the CYA isn't going anywhere in the sample. It's safe to let the sample warm then test for CYA.
    Joel - TFP Moderator - Minnesota - **Become a TFP Supporter!** Helpful Links: ABCs of Pool Water Chemistry - SLAM Procedure - Chlorine/CYA Chart
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    Re: Trying to SLAM with questions

    Quote Originally Posted by JVTrain View Post
    I have tested some for CYA at lower temperatures and it didn't work as well, but that was when I was first getting the hang of the test. What I would do to assure a good result is take your sample and let it come to room temperature indoors. Then perform the test. Unlike FC or CC, the CYA isn't going anywhere in the sample. It's safe to let the sample warm then test for CYA.
    Okay, that helps. I did the test after the water was in room temp for 1 hour and the result was still the same. Much less than 30, as I can clearly see the dot. Does ammonia eat the CYA?
    KGK
    23K, IG Vinyl, Sand Filter, 1.25 HP

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    Re: Trying to SLAM with questions

    Quote Originally Posted by KGK View Post
    Okay, that helps. I did the test after the water was in room temp for 1 hour and the result was still the same. Much less than 30, as I can clearly see the dot. Does ammonia eat the CYA?
    CYA decomposes into Ammonia sometimes over the winter. Ammonia eats bleach at an amazing rate. Once you get rid of the Ammonia, the CYA will stop breaking down and you can add some more CYA and the pool will start holding FC and clearing up.
    16K freeform gunite with spa; Pentair 4000 DE filter; Century Whisperflow 1 HP; Pentair Minimax heater.
    Troublefree does not mean Maintenancefree. It's like brushing your teeth: You can spend a couple minutes a day and pennies a week or go to the dentist once a year and spend several thousand dollars.
    A pool is like a pet - you have to feed it every day, even the days you don't want to play with it!

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    Mod Squad JVTrain's Avatar
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    Re: Trying to SLAM with questions

    CYA is converted INTO ammonia by certain soil bacteria, is the best guess on what happens. It only happens under the right conditions, typically on pools that are winterized and have their FC drop to zero over the closing period. It's not fully understood, but research has a pretty good idea. Whether we fully understand how it really happens... it happens. You can avoid it by keeping FC above 0 at all times over the winter, but many times, that may not be practical or possible.

    The end result of when it happens is a lower CYA because it was consumed and turned into ammonia. This ammonia consumes lots of bleach in order for the ammonia to be oxidized and eliminated.
    Joel - TFP Moderator - Minnesota - **Become a TFP Supporter!** Helpful Links: ABCs of Pool Water Chemistry - SLAM Procedure - Chlorine/CYA Chart
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    Re: Trying to SLAM with questions

    Quote Originally Posted by JVTrain View Post
    CYA is converted INTO ammonia by certain soil bacteria, is the best guess on what happens. It only happens under the right conditions, typically on pools that are winterized and have their FC drop to zero over the closing period. It's not fully understood, but research has a pretty good idea. Whether we fully understand how it really happens... it happens. You can avoid it by keeping FC above 0 at all times over the winter, but many times, that may not be practical or possible.

    The end result of when it happens is a lower CYA because it was consumed and turned into ammonia. This ammonia consumes lots of bleach in order for the ammonia to be oxidized and eliminated.
    Okay, I will add some stabilizer. Hopefully (if I understand right) the CYA will help my keep more FC and defeat the ammonia and algae? Should I do the sock trick or just let it rest on the sand through the skimmer?
    KGK
    23K, IG Vinyl, Sand Filter, 1.25 HP

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    Re: Trying to SLAM with questions

    Don't worry about CYA until your FC level is holding for at least short periods of time. Once your FC hits your target amount and stays there for a little while, you know you've eliminated the ammonia. Then check your pH and adjust to 7.2-7.4 (check SLAM instructions). Then add your CYA, using the sock method if you like and complete the SLAM procedure.

    Also, post a full set of test results FC, CC, pH, TA, CH at least once so we can see everything. Then you only need to test for FC and CC as you proceed through the SLAM.
    Joel - TFP Moderator - Minnesota - **Become a TFP Supporter!** Helpful Links: ABCs of Pool Water Chemistry - SLAM Procedure - Chlorine/CYA Chart
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    Re: Trying to SLAM with questions

    But, once you do get ready to add CYA definitely follow the sock method. Putting CYA in a sock will allow the CYA to dissolve in the sock rather than get caught in the filter and then dissolve from there.
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    Re: Trying to SLAM with questions

    KGK,

    Thanks for updating the location!

    Thoughts and ideas are flowing fast.... But to recap:

    Chlorine, keep up with the SLAM test and adjust as often as possible, if it's ammonia it will be gone soon.

    Once your FC is holding better test for CYA. Low temperature can effect the test, but guess what - let the water warm to room temperature and you are good to go.

    When you are ready to add CYA use the sock method and I suggest shooting low for your target level at first. Many have just added it and overshot their intended target.

    Take it slow and ask questions.
    TFP Moderator 39 X 18 23,000(ish) freeform gunite; built 2007ish; Pentair Triton II TR100 600lb Sand filter; 2 HP Pentair pump with 2.2 HP AO Smith single speed motor; 2 skimmers, 1 main drain, 4 returns w/waterfall, Stenner 45MHP2 3GPD running@ 60% - 15 gal Tank; heated by the sun CYA 200+ when I started - 50 now. Dolphin Supreme M5 Pool Cleaner. Hot Springs SX Spa, 285 gallon

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    Re: Trying to SLAM with questions

    Quote Originally Posted by tim5055 View Post
    KGK,

    Thanks for updating the location!

    Thoughts and ideas are flowing fast.... But to recap:

    Chlorine, keep up with the SLAM test and adjust as often as possible, if it's ammonia it will be gone soon.

    Once your FC is holding better test for CYA. Low temperature can effect the test, but guess what - let the water warm to room temperature and you are good to go.

    When you are ready to add CYA use the sock method and I suggest shooting low for your target level at first. Many have just added it and overshot their intended target.

    Take it slow and ask questions.

    Very cool and thanks. My local dealer said that I need to add at least 45 pounds of chlorine to break the demand caused by the ammonia. That seems a little extreme
    KGK
    23K, IG Vinyl, Sand Filter, 1.25 HP

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