I'm not sure I understand...the valve I have has three pipes going into it...one from the pump, one to the filter, and one to the Polaris return...are you saying a fourth pipe and a new valve that can divert to any of the three outputs from the pump? I'm not especially looking to do that, because that may also pump water out faster than I can put it back in...if commercial guys with insurance policies are not willing to pump more out than can be immediately be put back in, I don't trust such an endeavor myself either.
Gradual Draining Question
- Thread starter gilbee
- Start date
You are seeing the results of replacing a small percentage of the offending water, along with the uncertainty of your original CYA measurement. You really didn't achieve full benefit of replacing 32% of your water. Because are circulating the pool, you diluted the pool for 18.5 hours, which you assume dropped your CYA 20 points (likely somewhat higher as your level was likely over 200).
It is what is, due to the ground water issues.
If you do this another 18.5 hours you can expect to go from CYA 180 down to 150-160.
Versus changing the plumbing I would suggest you think about going over to your local Harbor Freight and getting submersible pump with an output of about 400-600 GPH. Make sure to get one of many readily available 20% coupons from the paper or magazines. Also look for one that has male water hose fitting or purchase the necessary size and length clear plastic tubing. Use of a pump at one end and dropping your water hose at the other will make this go faster as you can better segregate the good water from the bad by not circulating the pool.
It is what is, due to the ground water issues.
If you do this another 18.5 hours you can expect to go from CYA 180 down to 150-160.
Versus changing the plumbing I would suggest you think about going over to your local Harbor Freight and getting submersible pump with an output of about 400-600 GPH. Make sure to get one of many readily available 20% coupons from the paper or magazines. Also look for one that has male water hose fitting or purchase the necessary size and length clear plastic tubing. Use of a pump at one end and dropping your water hose at the other will make this go faster as you can better segregate the good water from the bad by not circulating the pool.
Go to Home Depot or Harbor Freight and get the biggest tarp or plastic drop cloth you can.
Spread it on top of your pool and start filling clean water on top of the plastic, while at the same time draining the old water.
Keep the equilibrium (pool level) to your liking.
Once you're satisfied that you swapped/drained enough water, simply slide the plastic out and let the waters mix.
Easy, peasy and 100% efficient.
Spread it on top of your pool and start filling clean water on top of the plastic, while at the same time draining the old water.
Keep the equilibrium (pool level) to your liking.
Once you're satisfied that you swapped/drained enough water, simply slide the plastic out and let the waters mix.
Easy, peasy and 100% efficient.
The tarp method illustrated: http://www.troublefreepool.com/threads/52373-Foreclosure-Swamp-in-Pensacola-Florida!/page3. Good pics start on post 56.
- May 3, 2007
- 16,895
- Pool Size
- 20000
- Surface
- Plaster
- Chlorine
- Salt Water Generator
- SWG Type
- Hayward Aqua Rite (T-15)
gibee,
I just noticed that you have a spa and that you only show one pump in your signature so you probably have a return spa valve that can be used to shut off return flow without having to modify your plumbing. Since you have a two speed pump, if you run on low speed and use a long hose, the flow rate should be pretty close to the fill rate even though you are not returning water back to the pool. This is exactly how I do an in place return. Just another option besides the tarp and sump pump.
I just noticed that you have a spa and that you only show one pump in your signature so you probably have a return spa valve that can be used to shut off return flow without having to modify your plumbing. Since you have a two speed pump, if you run on low speed and use a long hose, the flow rate should be pretty close to the fill rate even though you are not returning water back to the pool. This is exactly how I do an in place return. Just another option besides the tarp and sump pump.
Because I have such a long hose on the pump (125ft) I'm already pumping slow at 5gpm...I can turn off spa return and put fresh water in there, but it will just overflow into the pool...how is this any different? I did start with the hose in the spa, but I changed to the hose on the first step of the shallow end of the pool on the second day.
- May 3, 2007
- 16,895
- Pool Size
- 20000
- Surface
- Plaster
- Chlorine
- Salt Water Generator
- SWG Type
- Hayward Aqua Rite (T-15)
It makes a difference on where you are drawing the water from and where you are adding the water to. So if you can draw from the main drain only in the pool, and add new water to the furthest spot from the MD, then the water will remain somewhat separated. So if the steps are far from the MD, then that is probably the best spot. Can you isolate the pump suction to MD only or is the MD plumbed through the skimmer?
Yup, and that is exactly what I'm doing...all inputs are off except main drains in deep end, hose from water line on steps opposite end of pool
- May 3, 2007
- 16,895
- Pool Size
- 20000
- Surface
- Plaster
- Chlorine
- Salt Water Generator
- SWG Type
- Hayward Aqua Rite (T-15)
So the only thing you need to do is to shut off the return back to the pool from the pump but you should be able to do that with the spa/pool valve. Just point the tab towards the common pipe. That will increase the flow rate out of the hose so you should probably drop to low speed, if not already, to maintain 5 GPM or adjust your fill rate.
There isn't a way to shut off all of the returns...I can shut off pool return, spa return, but not both.
To show you why I say that, here's a pic of the valves:
Don't let the pump in the pic with spa jets throw you...that pump is a closed loop, just for extra jets in the spa, and doesn't pump water into the pool, or even through the filter...it is turned on with a switch as desired when you're using the spa.
To show you why I say that, here's a pic of the valves:
Don't let the pump in the pic with spa jets throw you...that pump is a closed loop, just for extra jets in the spa, and doesn't pump water into the pool, or even through the filter...it is turned on with a switch as desired when you're using the spa.
- May 3, 2007
- 16,895
- Pool Size
- 20000
- Surface
- Plaster
- Chlorine
- Salt Water Generator
- SWG Type
- Hayward Aqua Rite (T-15)
Yes you can. You turn the valve handle so it points to you. That shuts flow to both ports. If there are valve stops, unscrew the valve handle (center screw) and lift the handle a little so it clears the stops and then turn.
Really? I thought this was a two position valve with a blend in the position it's in currently....
And if I shut it there, then water will go to the filter and that will be the pressure point...do I really want that excess pressure happening at the cartridge filter?
- May 3, 2007
- 16,895
- Pool Size
- 20000
- Surface
- Plaster
- Chlorine
- Salt Water Generator
- SWG Type
- Hayward Aqua Rite (T-15)
Most filters handle up to 60 PSI. The pump cannot produce that amount of pressure even on high speed so it is safe and this is the same way I do it:
1) Set up the drain hose on the spigot. Probably already there.
2) Start the pump and turn it to low speed.
3) Turn the drain spigot fully on and start draining.
4) Turn the spa/pool valve to shut off return flow. You will see pressure rise but not by much since you are on low speed.
5) You will probably then need to adjust the new water fill rate to match that of the drain rate.
1) Set up the drain hose on the spigot. Probably already there.
2) Start the pump and turn it to low speed.
3) Turn the drain spigot fully on and start draining.
4) Turn the spa/pool valve to shut off return flow. You will see pressure rise but not by much since you are on low speed.
5) You will probably then need to adjust the new water fill rate to match that of the drain rate.
Ok, so instead of closing off the return one we were talking about, it occured to me there is a valve just after the pump, that blends flow between the filter and the polaris itself, so if the return one does this, then surely the other one does too...
so I closed off the far right valve by loosening the nut on top as you suggested, and the valve made some stressing noises, then I realized I had the pump at high....wife on the other end of the hose said it was whipping around....what are the valves rated at? I lowered the pump to low speed, and the outgoing rate is slower than when I had it the other way at high, but not by too much. Wondering if I can safely do this at high as well, and speed up the process...I think I can go up to 10GPM on my water line from the house, so that would cut my time in half theoretically....thoughts?
so I closed off the far right valve by loosening the nut on top as you suggested, and the valve made some stressing noises, then I realized I had the pump at high....wife on the other end of the hose said it was whipping around....what are the valves rated at? I lowered the pump to low speed, and the outgoing rate is slower than when I had it the other way at high, but not by too much. Wondering if I can safely do this at high as well, and speed up the process...I think I can go up to 10GPM on my water line from the house, so that would cut my time in half theoretically....thoughts?
- May 3, 2007
- 16,895
- Pool Size
- 20000
- Surface
- Plaster
- Chlorine
- Salt Water Generator
- SWG Type
- Hayward Aqua Rite (T-15)
Yes, you can use the valve too and the pressure rating for all plumbing is much higher than pumps can produce so there is no worries about that. While it might be possible to run at high speed my guess is the flow rate would be much higher than 10 GPM. Plus you are dealing with a lot of pressure at that point so I would stick with low speed. It may be close to 10 GPM anyway. I have a 1/2 HP pump and low speed is about 7 GPM with the hose so yours is probably higher than that.
I timed it with a stop watch and a 5gal bucket, and it was less than full (about 3 inches short) at the minute point at low....keep in mind there's 125ft of hose attached, which slows it down quite a bit...with just 25ft of hose I was getting true 5gpm at low and 10gpm at high.
I've got a 2hp pump...I'll time it at high and see what I get when I return from running errands.
I've got a 2hp pump...I'll time it at high and see what I get when I return from running errands.
Ok, so I'm pumping again, now with the returns off....I'm getting 7.5gpm on high, and I've got my fresh water going at close (smidge higher) to that rate. I know it's not like for like, but just in sheer gallons, I've pumped just over 40% of the capacity had it been an even swap. Let's see where we are this evening, fingers crossed.
PS - I looked at the ratings of my plumbing, and both the filter and the valves can only support up to 50psi...hopefully this on high isn't going to cause that at the valve.
PS - I looked at the ratings of my plumbing, and both the filter and the valves can only support up to 50psi...hopefully this on high isn't going to cause that at the valve.
- May 3, 2007
- 16,895
- Pool Size
- 20000
- Surface
- Plaster
- Chlorine
- Salt Water Generator
- SWG Type
- Hayward Aqua Rite (T-15)
If you want to save some test reagent and time, give it another day of drain and fill. You are likely not there yet, based on your prior effort. This is going to take more than increasing your flow by 2.5 gpm for 8 hour in a day = an additional 1200 gallons ++ on top of your regular 5600 for the day. 6800/17400 = 39% in the best case. If your CYA was at 180 * 61 % = 109.8 ppm now.
Keep at it, you will get there.
Keep at it, you will get there.