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Thread: Intellitouch Control Setup Questions

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    Intellitouch Control Setup Questions

    So few questions here. I have started setting up my intellitouch and the instructions are not very good. I am familiar with automation, certified for Lutron controls, and familiar with wiring. My intellitouch has the wireless transceiver setup with Screen Logic2. Im using a laptop and and iPhone. The laptop connects, reads the air and water temps, as does the iPhone app. so its not like they aren't communicating. My intellibright lights work also through the app or computer. But not much else does.

    Goals are:

    Control Heat Pump
    Control Gas Heater
    Control Lights (which are currently working)
    Control Auto pilot ---Read older threads that say this isn't a great idea. mine is reading it, but doesn't read salt level. I don't have to control this, however then what is the best way to turn this on and off with the pump if the pump is controlled by intellitouch but the auto pilot isn't.
    Control the pump
    Control the Basic deck Jets
    Control the Magic lighted jets----
    to control the the deck jets a Valve actuator needs to be control
    to control the magic jets a second one also needs to be controlled

    The Actuators came with the personality kit, and only seem to turn when I push the valve button on personality board while in service mode. The valves move 180 degrees and only want them to turn 90. Maybe that is in the programming (configureing) but I cant find it anywhere. Also, the gas heater has a blank screen like it has no power at all. I unhooked the jumper on the fireman switch and hooked my two wre control wire in this place per instructions. The Heat pump has power, but still doesn't seem to be controlled by the system.

    Any advice or questions would be greatly appreciated.

    Thanks
    Greg
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    JasonLion's Avatar
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    Re: Intellitouch Control Setup Questions

    The simplest thing with the AutoPilot is to power the AutoPilot from the pump relay, so it will only be on when the pump is on. But don't connect a data cable to the AutoPilot so you still get automatic temperature compensation.

    Everything else is easy enough to do once you understand how EasyTouch deals with things.

    The valves range of rotation gets setup inside the valve actuator. There should be detailed instructions that came with the actuators. Basically there are cams inside the actuators that control the start and end positions.

    The heater setup depends on the specific heater models. You want the heater to always have power, but wire the automation system to the heater based on the instructions that come with the heater.

    Valves need to be assigned to either an Aux or a Feature circuit, and once that is done switching that aux/feature on/off will turn the valve.
    19K gal, vinyl, 1/2 HP WhisperFlo pump, 200 sqft cartridge filter, AutoPilot Digital SWG, Dolphin Dynamic cleaning robot
    Creator of PoolMath and Pool Calculator. Other handy links: Support this site, TF Test Kits, Pool School

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    Re: Intellitouch Control Setup Questions

    Ok, so the actuators are adjusted and now I can get the deck jets to work, and the magic jets.
    The Heat pump just isn't responding. its connected by the 2 wire control to the Comm port on personality board. I haven't looked into the gas heater yet. Any idea on the Heat pump itself, why its not communicating?
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    JasonLion's Avatar
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    Re: Intellitouch Control Setup Questions

    What specific model of heat pump do you have?
    19K gal, vinyl, 1/2 HP WhisperFlo pump, 200 sqft cartridge filter, AutoPilot Digital SWG, Dolphin Dynamic cleaning robot
    Creator of PoolMath and Pool Calculator. Other handy links: Support this site, TF Test Kits, Pool School

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    Re: Intellitouch Control Setup Questions

    It's a Pentair ultra temp 140
    The gas is a Pentair master temp 250. Like I said for the gas, inside the heater, there was a jumper at fireman switch. I removed that jumper, put my new two wire control wire ,( let's say red n white) red to one side of where the jumper was removed, and white to the other side. But it's like the heater has no power now. At some point I was gonna put the jumper back and see if it powers up then.
    The heat pump is clearly on, the screen on heat pump says remote relay is on. But it just doesn't seem to communicate. I wonder if I didn't set something up in the program right? At least the jets work with the program and the actuator, and the magic jets do also. Not real sure about controlling the lights color on jets yet, but the pool color lights work fine too.
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    JasonLion's Avatar
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    Re: Intellitouch Control Setup Questions

    There are two ways to connect the Pentair ultra temp 140, using the remote terminal, or using an RS-485 data cable. When connected through the remote terminals you need to press the MENU SELECT button repeatedly until you get to "Remote Mode" and set it to "Relay" using the arrow keys. The communication between the IntelliTouch and the heater is limited to having the IntelliTouch turn the heater on/off. The displays will not otherwise stay in sync.

    For the Pentair master temp 250, you should have power to the heater and be able to use the screen controls even when the fireman switch is open. If it appears to be completely off you should check the power connections.

    In both cases the heater should be configured so that it is trying to heat the pool to some very high temperature, say 104 degrees. The remote connection will over-ride that as needed.
    19K gal, vinyl, 1/2 HP WhisperFlo pump, 200 sqft cartridge filter, AutoPilot Digital SWG, Dolphin Dynamic cleaning robot
    Creator of PoolMath and Pool Calculator. Other handy links: Support this site, TF Test Kits, Pool School

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    Re: Intellitouch Control Setup Questions

    Great thanks. I will check all that.
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    Re: Intellitouch Control Setup Questions

    This is the first time i'm using this site. I have a Intellitouch system with a Mastertemp 250 heater, and a Pentair SCG. They all have to be on when the intelliflo pump is on. Does that mean that I connect all of them to the same circuit breaker and the same intelliflo relay? I can't figure out how I can ensure the pump is always on while they are active otherwise. If this has been covered in another post I'm sorry.
    The size of your pool in gallons
    If your pool is an AG (above ground) or IG (in ground)
    If it's IG, tell us if it's vinyl, plaster/pebble, or fiberglass
    The type of filter you have (sand, DE, cartridge) and, if you know, the size, model number or flow rate of the filter.
    If you know, please tell us the size pump in HP. Also mention if is it a two speed or variable speed pump.
    Installed: May 9th, 2013
    Other significant accessories or options, such as a spa , SWG, or cleaner

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    Mod Squad Jimrahbe's Avatar
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    Re: Intellitouch Control Setup Questions

    Chris,

    The Intelliflo should not be connected to any relay... The wires from the IntellfFlo's circuit breaker should only go directly to the pump itself and nowhere else. This pump is controlled by a serial cable that plugs into the side of the pump's control panel.

    The AC power going to the Salt Water Chlorine Generator (SWCG) should come from a separate circuit breaker and then pass through the Pump/Filter relay before going to the SWCG's transformer. This relay is generally the one in the top left of the panel as you are facing it. This relay should be connected to the pump/filter connection on the main PCB. Since the Pump/Filter relay is only energized when the main pump is running, it will prevent the SWCG from getting power if the main pump is off.

    The heater should be controlled by the Intellitouch's two-wire gas heater connection on the main circuit board, I don't believe this output functions unless the main pump is running.

    Also.. Welcome to TFP.. A Great resource for all your pool questions.

    Thanks for posting,

    Jim R.
    Finished in 2015 - 17K Gal, IG, 20' x 25' Almost Rectangular Pool, Pebble finish, three rockport water falls. Pentair Equipment: EasyTouch 4, IC40 SWG, 3 HP VS Pump, CCP520 Cartridge Filter.
    TF100 with SpeedStir and SampleSizer, ColorQ Pro 7, Dolphin Premier Robot Cleaner, added Screen Logic 2, added small 3 person Calder Spa.

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    Re: Intellitouch Control Setup Questions

    My PB had my IntelliFlo wired to a relay and constantly lost communication with EasyTouch/SL each time the pump turned off.

    Pentair Support's instruction was to wire pump directly to a 20 AMP GFCI and the data wire to the ET's COM port. Haven't had issue since.

    Should the IntelliChlor have its own breaker? Or OK to power off the ET panel directly?


    17'x35' 22,500 gal. Gunite IGP 3.5-8.0 ft. IC60 SWG, 2 skimmers, 2 main drains, 4 returns. CCP520 cartridge filter, 3hp IntelliFlo 2 VST VSP, EasyTouch 4, ScreenLogic2, 2 IntelliBrite Color LEDs, Poolmiser autofill, UltraTemp 120R H/C 125K BTU heat pump, Diamond Brite Super Blue, No spa or water features.

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    Re: Intellitouch Control Setup Questions

    The Intellichlor should receive is power from the filter pump relay. That relay is typically powered by the 20A GFI breaker that also powers the pump but should be placed on its own breaker.

    Generally you don't want multiple items powered off the same 220v circuit but it seems this has become an acceptable practice with pool automation systems. It's very common to power the pump, SWG, and heater off the pump breaker.

    The goal is to not allow the SWG or heater to recieve power unless the pump is active.
    -Brian-
    33K Pool/Spa, Pentair Equipment
    POOL BUILD
    Davis Custom Construction - Home Page

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    Mod Squad Jimrahbe's Avatar
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    Re: Intellitouch Control Setup Questions

    Miles,

    I don't think the SWCG has to have it's own breaker, although mine does, but it should not be powered off the IntelliFlo's GFCI breaker. I just turn my IC40 off in the winter with the CB. Probably should take it out, but I'm too lazy.

    Brian,

    What you say about "...It's very common to power the pump, SWG, and heater off the pump breaker..." is very true, but does not make it correct. In most cases I doubt it makes much difference, but, as I'm sure you know, the IntelliFlo's manual specifically states that the pumps GFCI breaker should power nothing else, but the pump itself.

    Also, I'm under the impression that the gas heater output will not close if the pump/filter relay is not energized. Do you know for a fact if this is true or not. I don't have a heater..

    Thanks,

    Jim R.
    Finished in 2015 - 17K Gal, IG, 20' x 25' Almost Rectangular Pool, Pebble finish, three rockport water falls. Pentair Equipment: EasyTouch 4, IC40 SWG, 3 HP VS Pump, CCP520 Cartridge Filter.
    TF100 with SpeedStir and SampleSizer, ColorQ Pro 7, Dolphin Premier Robot Cleaner, added Screen Logic 2, added small 3 person Calder Spa.

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    Re: Intellitouch Control Setup Questions

    In the case where the Fireman's switch is used for heater control, then no the heater will not fire. Not all heaters are installed in this manner though.

    I don't disagree with how the pumps and SWGs should be powered but using the pump breaker is very common, at least in the panels I have seen in my area.
    -Brian-
    33K Pool/Spa, Pentair Equipment
    POOL BUILD
    Davis Custom Construction - Home Page

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    Mod Squad Jimrahbe's Avatar
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    Re: Intellitouch Control Setup Questions

    Brian,

    I installed EasyTouch systems at two rent houses and basically ran separate circuit breakers to almost everything, just because I had no idea what I was doing..

    When I had a pool built at my house, the panel was installed by the PB's electrician. It had only one Circuit Breaker, the IntelliFlo's GFCI breaker, and everything else was wired off of it. (It is no longer wired this way..)

    Since I have been on this site, I have seen several installations done the same way. As you say, it seems to be very common for it to be done this way. I can only assume it is done to keeps the costs as low as possible.

    Before you responded I ran a quick test on the heater output and verified what you said. With the pump off, the heater output is open and will only close when the main pump comes back on. I "assume" that if the EasyTouch does that, it will also not let the pump come on via serial communications, unless the pump is on.. But you know what assuming can do to ya..

    Thanks again for all your help and insight..

    Jim R.
    Finished in 2015 - 17K Gal, IG, 20' x 25' Almost Rectangular Pool, Pebble finish, three rockport water falls. Pentair Equipment: EasyTouch 4, IC40 SWG, 3 HP VS Pump, CCP520 Cartridge Filter.
    TF100 with SpeedStir and SampleSizer, ColorQ Pro 7, Dolphin Premier Robot Cleaner, added Screen Logic 2, added small 3 person Calder Spa.

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    Re: Intellitouch Control Setup Questions

    I don't know that it's wired that way just for cost savings. Unfortunately the panel only holds a limited number of breakers and if you have multiple pumps, you lose a lot of space quickly.

    I see no reason why "piggybacking" of the main pump breaker is an issue (other than it being a code violation in some areas) but more so to prevent the random GFI trips that often occur.

    The GFI breakers only take a miniscule voltage difference between legs to trip the breaker so by hardwiring the pump to constant voltage, you eliminate that threat almost completely. I feel this is Pentair's reasoning for their wiring suggestion.

    I have no factual evidence but I do have a suspicion that the breakers Pentair recommends have a higher tolerance before tripping than the others.
    -Brian-
    33K Pool/Spa, Pentair Equipment
    POOL BUILD
    Davis Custom Construction - Home Page

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    Mod Squad Jimrahbe's Avatar
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    Re: Intellitouch Control Setup Questions

    Quote Originally Posted by bdavis466 View Post
    I don't know that it's wired that way just for cost savings. Unfortunately the panel only holds a limited number of breakers and if you have multiple pumps, you lose a lot of space quickly.

    I see no reason why "piggybacking" of the main pump breaker is an issue (other than it being a code violation in some areas) but more so to prevent the random GFI trips that often occur.

    The GFI breakers only take a miniscule voltage difference between legs to trip the breaker so by hardwiring the pump to constant voltage, you eliminate that threat almost completely. I feel this is Pentair's reasoning for their wiring suggestion.

    I have no factual evidence but I do have a suspicion that the breakers Pentair recommends have a higher tolerance before tripping than the others.
    Brian,

    I agree with what you are saying 100%...

    I also have no proof, but I suspect that Pentair's circuit breakers are culled out by the manufacturer for all being at the top end of the tripping spec.

    Jim R.
    Finished in 2015 - 17K Gal, IG, 20' x 25' Almost Rectangular Pool, Pebble finish, three rockport water falls. Pentair Equipment: EasyTouch 4, IC40 SWG, 3 HP VS Pump, CCP520 Cartridge Filter.
    TF100 with SpeedStir and SampleSizer, ColorQ Pro 7, Dolphin Premier Robot Cleaner, added Screen Logic 2, added small 3 person Calder Spa.

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    Re: Intellitouch Control Setup Questions

    Here is the explanation of why powering separate things on separate breakers provides slightly more protection.

    Lets say you have a 10 amp motor, a 2 amp heater, and a 1 amp SWG.

    Lets add them up, get 13 amps and so we install a hypothetical 15 amp breaker. Well, if all three are always running at full capacity, that 3 amp margin will easily trip if the motor surges by 30% [say something sticks in the impeller]. But if the heater [say its fan motor], over amps by 30% [say due to a twig getting stuck in it], well that won't trip he breaker. Similar situation for the SWG. Even if the SWG triples it's current demand, the breaker will keep sending current, melting, burning, or causing troubles.

    Now, if you don't often use the heater, and the motor stalls, AND the SWG is not on, well now it has to over amp by 5 amps.

    In a perfect world, you would have a 12.5 amp breaker for the motor, a 2.5 amp breaker for our hypothetical heater, and a 1.25 amp breaker for the SWG. Now the "surge" failure modes will give the maximum amount of protection for each.

    Having said that, we are now trying to cover for failure modes that are likely rare, and we spent a lot more space, [and in this case had special optimized circuit breakers made for exactly the right current]. Also, what about that one time when a valve is not quite open, and the startup inrush motor current goes over our 12.5 Amp limit for a few seconds.

    In my experience, breakers that are too close to the real current draw are just a pain, because they false trip too often, and all of the real failures I can remember are short circuits; And a short on any of our 3 hypothetical units will trip our 15 amp breaker, so we are protected from the predominant failure mode. Does the single optimized breaker per unit provide more protection? Yes. So is using one breaker in our example the end of the world? Probably not. Is it worth three x the space and 3x the breakers? Probably not. Would you put 10 things on one breaker? Probably carrying this simplification too far.
    Jon -- 28kgal, IG, AquaBright, Attached Spa, ~1990, Quad DE 80, Easytouch8, IntelliFloVS-3050, Intellichlor60, IntelliPh, Dolphin DX6, City Water, K-2006/TF-100, SpeedStir, SampleSizer, San Diego, CA

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