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Thread: Replacing Single Speed Pentair

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    Replacing Single Speed Pentair

    I am writing looking for some help in transitioning my pool off of its single speed Pentair pump. Stats for my pool are:

    23,000 gallon pool,
    Pentair pump with aftermarket 1 HP & 1.65 SF, Clean and Clear Plus 320 cartridge filter (320 sq ft, 6 hr turnover of 43,200 gallons)
    2" PVC piping, Kreepy Krauly suction pool cleaner, dual water-fall, no heat or spa, also a plastic (cheap) pvc metal spring check valve.
    Pentair SWG that has not worked for > 5 years so I simply use chlorine.
    I live in Central CA, energy costs are around $0.24/kwh. We swim May - September and would swim more if we ever decided to heat the pool.

    This is my first pool (owned 5 years now) and when I moved in the pump motor was pretty loud. After the first season I replaced the motor with an aftermarket one off Amazon not knowing any better.

    My current energy costs are huge. I would like to replace the single speed with a VS. Using a Hyd 101 spreadsheet from this forum I can see that the Hayward MaxFLO VS 1.5 is very energy efficient and should meet my needs. I am considering this pump and also considering replacing the check valve with a Jandy 2-2.5" 90* check valve.

    Any additional suggestions / considerations?

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    JasonLion's Avatar
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    Re: Replacing Single Speed Pentair

    Welcome to TFP!

    Those both sound like great ideas. The new pump will save a great deal on electricity when not running the waterfall, and still save a little when you are running the waterfall. I don't know what check valve you have now, or why you would need a check valve, but the Jandy valve you mention is one of the best ones out there.

    It would help us give you advice in the future if you put some of that pool information into your signature, which you can do on the Settings -> Signature page, the settings button is near the top right of every page, just below the Pool School button.
    19K gal, vinyl, 1/2 HP WhisperFlo pump, 200 sqft cartridge filter, AutoPilot Digital SWG, Dolphin Dynamic cleaning robot
    Creator of PoolMath and Pool Calculator. Other handy links: Support this site, TF Test Kits, Pool School

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    Mod Squad pooldv's Avatar
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    Re: Replacing Single Speed Pentair

    Welcome to TFP. Here is a little more info about your signature. What we need to know to answer your questions
    TFP Moderator
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    2012 build and pics, 20k gal gunite, black onyx pebblesheen, OK flagstone, IntellifoVS, cart filter w/Pleatco, IC40 SWG, Solartouch, 5 12'x4' solar panels, HP50HA heat pump, 8mil solar cover, borates, TF-100 test kit, SONOS, Doheny's Discovery Robot, hot tub on bleach

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    bobodaclown's Avatar
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    Re: Replacing Single Speed Pentair

    What's the condition of the wet end of the pump? You could switch out the motor with a variable speed or 2-speed and keep the same wet end.
    17K Kidney Shaped Pool Concrete (Diamond Bright) Pool, 3/4 hp 2 speed 115V Sta-rite Duraglas PEA5D-180L/P2R5D-181L (Impeller C105-92PS Diffuser C1-216P), 1.5 piping, Pentair CC100 Filter , Heat Siphon 100K BTU Heat Pump Pool Heater, Flow meter Blue White Flowmeter Model No. F-30150P, Hayward Astrolight SP0581N, SWCG CalimarTitanium Edition TE45 , Dolphin Nautilus Plus with CleverClean, Lakeland Florida

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    Re: Replacing Single Speed Pentair

    Wow, thanks for so many replies so quickly! I updated my signature and will continue to improve it. Thank you!

    Jason: Thanks! I just read about different check valves in the Hyd 101 section. I have a "Flo-Check" 90* valve right now (Pentair I believe?) that prevents backflow when the pump is not running. The existing valve has been noisy in the past and I found it insightful that there are higher quality valves that might even mean a slight energy savings.

    Bobo: I don't really know how to assess the wet end. It is original equipment, the pool was installed somewhere around 2008-2009. I had a real tough time keeping the pool primed back in those days which burnt out the first motor. When the motor was replaced it was quite again. In the last 6 months or so I've noticed it is a little bit louder and again assume it is the motor.

    Also, my pump is currently controlled by a mechanical timer.
    23 kgal pebble tek pool, Hayward SP2302 VSP, Clean and Clear Plus 320 cartridge filter, 2" PVC, Kreepy Krauly suction pool cleaner, dual water-fall, no heat or spa, and a broken Pentair SWG!

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    bobodaclown's Avatar
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    Re: Replacing Single Speed Pentair

    Did you replace the shaft seal last time? It's pretty important. Wet ends don't ususally go bad, unless they deform due to excessive heat from running dry. Sometimes they'll need new O-rings when the old ones dry out/become brittle. Or the impeller gets clogged from not running with a basket. If you're happy with the amount of water your moving I'd just replace the motor and call it a day.
    Can you post an image of your pool pad?
    17K Kidney Shaped Pool Concrete (Diamond Bright) Pool, 3/4 hp 2 speed 115V Sta-rite Duraglas PEA5D-180L/P2R5D-181L (Impeller C105-92PS Diffuser C1-216P), 1.5 piping, Pentair CC100 Filter , Heat Siphon 100K BTU Heat Pump Pool Heater, Flow meter Blue White Flowmeter Model No. F-30150P, Hayward Astrolight SP0581N, SWCG CalimarTitanium Edition TE45 , Dolphin Nautilus Plus with CleverClean, Lakeland Florida

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    Re: Replacing Single Speed Pentair

    I do not recall if I replaced the shaft seal or not. It has been several years now... I will say that when I replaced the motor the difference was night and day and the new pump/impeller combo was VERY quite.

    I was attracted to the Hayward pump because it looked exceptionally energy efficient. Is there a place where I can find reputable, energy efficient motors with a controller?

    I'm not sold on VS over 2 speed either. I just need a solution sooner than later. I attribute nearly $115 of my last bill solely to pool pump usage (all Tier 4) while bringing back my pool from a bad bloom while we were gone for two weeks. With that said I am also heavily researching a solar energy install for my home in the coming months so maybe my perspective will be different when that is complete!
    23 kgal pebble tek pool, Hayward SP2302 VSP, Clean and Clear Plus 320 cartridge filter, 2" PVC, Kreepy Krauly suction pool cleaner, dual water-fall, no heat or spa, and a broken Pentair SWG!

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    Re: Replacing Single Speed Pentair

    $115 in your pool pump alone is quite high. My VS pump uses about 7kwh/day assuming the wattage is correct on the screen display. That's about 210kwh/month. Even at your high $.24/kWh that would only equate to about $50. Have a coworker who runs his VS pump for 13 hours per day, 6-4 at 1200rpm, and 4-7 at 2200rpm and he's around 5kwh/day with those speeds. I have longer pipe run and need higher rpms to get the vacuum going, etc.

    The thesis statement of my rambling is that if you're able to significantly lower the pump rpms with a variable speed and accomplish the same filtering, you could be saving a good amount of $ each month!
    IG gunite 32 x 18 on a bachelor budget! Click Here To See

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    Re: Replacing Single Speed Pentair

    Quote Originally Posted by bulldogz400 View Post
    $115 in your pool pump alone is quite high. My VS pump uses about 7kwh/day assuming the wattage is correct on the screen display. That's about 210kwh/month. Even at your high $.24/kWh that would only equate to about $50. Have a coworker who runs his VS pump for 13 hours per day, 6-4 at 1200rpm, and 4-7 at 2200rpm and he's around 5kwh/day with those speeds. I have longer pipe run and need higher rpms to get the vacuum going, etc.

    The thesis statement of my rambling is that if you're able to significantly lower the pump rpms with a variable speed and accomplish the same filtering, you could be saving a good amount of $ each month!
    I agree! Tier 4 for me was actually $0.34 this month, where all of that $119 was spent!

    But if I try to save money by simply replacing the motor, where could I purchase a very energy efficient variable or two speed? From the Hyd 101 spreadsheet it appears pool pumps are not all created equally.
    23 kgal pebble tek pool, Hayward SP2302 VSP, Clean and Clear Plus 320 cartridge filter, 2" PVC, Kreepy Krauly suction pool cleaner, dual water-fall, no heat or spa, and a broken Pentair SWG!

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    bobodaclown's Avatar
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    Re: Replacing Single Speed Pentair

    The motors can be found on eBay/Amazon or another on line store. You can sometimes find remanufactured 2-speeds for more savings. Do you have a square flange or C-flange? Can you post an image of your pool pad?
    17K Kidney Shaped Pool Concrete (Diamond Bright) Pool, 3/4 hp 2 speed 115V Sta-rite Duraglas PEA5D-180L/P2R5D-181L (Impeller C105-92PS Diffuser C1-216P), 1.5 piping, Pentair CC100 Filter , Heat Siphon 100K BTU Heat Pump Pool Heater, Flow meter Blue White Flowmeter Model No. F-30150P, Hayward Astrolight SP0581N, SWCG CalimarTitanium Edition TE45 , Dolphin Nautilus Plus with CleverClean, Lakeland Florida

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    Re: Replacing Single Speed Pentair

    If you have a mechanical time clock, like an Intermatic, then a 2Green motor would be a great option. It's a direct replacement for your Pentair pump motor without having to rewire or add a second timer for your typical 2 speed motor.
    https://www.centuryelectricmotor.com...pe=1033&id=335

    A VGreen motor will work too if you want the variable speed option.
    https://www.centuryelectricmotor.com...&id=6442450977

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    Re: Replacing Single Speed Pentair

    Quote Originally Posted by bobodaclown View Post
    Can you post an image of your pool pad?
    Here are two images of the pool pad. Sorry, I tried forever to resize these images with no luck... :/




    23 kgal pebble tek pool, Hayward SP2302 VSP, Clean and Clear Plus 320 cartridge filter, 2" PVC, Kreepy Krauly suction pool cleaner, dual water-fall, no heat or spa, and a broken Pentair SWG!

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    Re: Replacing Single Speed Pentair

    When I used the Pool Pump Tools spreadsheet I was blown away that all pumps were not created equally when it came to energy savings. Specifically the Hayward I mentioned about has a 21 g/whr Energy Factor that was nearly unparalleled when operating at lower RPMs. Am I overvaluing that data?

    The motors you guys are suggesting run between $300-450 depending on new/reman' and 2speed/variable speed. The Hayward MaxFLO VS is only $670 on Amazon. It seems the energy cost savings would offset this price difference in my area.

    BUT I have never replaced the entire pump and I am very interested in the ease of install that the 2 green motor would offer... Is a ~6-7 year old impeller worth saving?
    23 kgal pebble tek pool, Hayward SP2302 VSP, Clean and Clear Plus 320 cartridge filter, 2" PVC, Kreepy Krauly suction pool cleaner, dual water-fall, no heat or spa, and a broken Pentair SWG!

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    JasonLion's Avatar
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    Re: Replacing Single Speed Pentair

    With your electric rates, I would go with a variable speed pump. A two speed is a much better choice when electricity is less expensive, but at high rates the variable speed pumps become the lowest lifetime cost option. Of course I love the 2Green motors

    The MaxFlo VS is not the most energy efficient pump out there, though it is very respectable. As the energy efficiency goes up, it actually gets less important, as the upfront costs start to be more and more important for calculating lifetime costs. The MaxFlo VS combines a very respectable energy efficiency with a fairly low up front cost (for a variable speed), which is a great combination.
    19K gal, vinyl, 1/2 HP WhisperFlo pump, 200 sqft cartridge filter, AutoPilot Digital SWG, Dolphin Dynamic cleaning robot
    Creator of PoolMath and Pool Calculator. Other handy links: Support this site, TF Test Kits, Pool School

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    Re: Replacing Single Speed Pentair

    Quote Originally Posted by JasonLion View Post
    With your electric rates, I would go with a variable speed pump. A two speed is a much better choice when electricity is less expensive, but at high rates the variable speed pumps become the lowest lifetime cost option. Of course I love the 2Green motors

    The MaxFlo VS is not the most energy efficient pump out there, though it is very respectable. As the energy efficiency goes up, it actually gets less important, as the upfront costs start to be more and more important for calculating lifetime costs. The MaxFlo VS combines a very respectable energy efficiency with a fairly low up front cost (for a variable speed), which is a great combination.
    Thank you! I don't want to be penny-wise and pound-foolish regarding the "perfect" pump. I do think I am misreading the efficiency spreadsheet slightly as it appears all the VS pumps just have different operating RPMs where they are most efficient.

    What is the life-expectancy of an impeller? Are there any other things in my pool pad that you think might need addressing? I'm debating the added cost (really just headache since I'll do this myself) of installing a new pump/impeller vice just swapping the motor?

    That SWG you see in the photo is not working. I need to either get it working or remove it... So perhaps I need to do some PVC work here anyway?

    Jason, what is your background with the 2Green motors?
    23 kgal pebble tek pool, Hayward SP2302 VSP, Clean and Clear Plus 320 cartridge filter, 2" PVC, Kreepy Krauly suction pool cleaner, dual water-fall, no heat or spa, and a broken Pentair SWG!

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    Re: Replacing Single Speed Pentair

    Regarding the SWG, an easy swap would be the Pentair dummy cell which is designed for winter when the SWG is not running anyhow. I'm sure you can pvc cheaper but this keeps your options open down the road.

    http://www.amazon.com/Pentair-520588.../dp/B004VU8A1Q
    IG gunite 32 x 18 on a bachelor budget! Click Here To See

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    JasonLion's Avatar
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    Re: Replacing Single Speed Pentair

    The impeller usually lasts longer than the pump, though very occasionally they have been known to shatter.

    I don't have any real history with the 2Green, it just has the combination of features I kept looking for and couldn't find a few years ago.
    19K gal, vinyl, 1/2 HP WhisperFlo pump, 200 sqft cartridge filter, AutoPilot Digital SWG, Dolphin Dynamic cleaning robot
    Creator of PoolMath and Pool Calculator. Other handy links: Support this site, TF Test Kits, Pool School

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    Installing Hayward Max-Flo VS

    Merged by moderator. Please keep related questions together. Thanks, jblizzle

    I just purchased the Hayward Max-Flo VS SP2302VSP. This pump is replacing my existing Pentair Whisperflo. A few quick questions before I begin:

    1) How do I mount the pump to the base? My existing pump is mounted to an E-lite Diversitech base. The entire system is about 6-7 years old and I hadn't planned on removing or replacing the base. However, the manual of my new pump recommends a minimum length of 10" straight pipe to the pump inlet considering I have 2" piping. The current pump has only about 5". I would like to move it back slightly to accommodate the longer inlet. Can the pump be mounted to the base without removing it?

    2) Should I replace the check valve just upstream of my pump's outlet? I have a 90* spring check valve that I assume is to prevent back flow and facilitate the pump maintaining it's prime. The plastic housing has worn such that the spring inside the valve would rattle significantly while the pump was operating. I read here that the Jandy 2-2.5" 90* check valve is great investment. Is this something I need/want?

    3) This one is pretty simple... should I remove the mechanical timer to this pump or just set the timer to be always on?

    23 kgal pebble tek pool, Hayward SP2302 VSP, Clean and Clear Plus 320 cartridge filter, 2" PVC, Kreepy Krauly suction pool cleaner, dual water-fall, no heat or spa, and a broken Pentair SWG!

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    Mod Squad jblizzle's Avatar
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    Re: Replacing Single Speed Pentair

    1. There is no real reason to attach the pump to the base. Most people do not. So you can move the pump wherever you want.

    2. There is really no reason to even have a check valve in that location.

    3. I would just leave the time always on. No reason to worry about changing the wiring now.
    Jason, TFP Moderator
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    Re: Replacing Single Speed Pentair

    Quote Originally Posted by jblizzle View Post
    2. There is really no reason to even have a check valve in that location.
    Great! Thanks for the help. As for the check valve, does it have any effect on maintaining a higher water level in the filter basin?

    If there is no reason for it to be there I will definitely be removing it AND this would save me the ~$50 for a nicer valve also!
    23 kgal pebble tek pool, Hayward SP2302 VSP, Clean and Clear Plus 320 cartridge filter, 2" PVC, Kreepy Krauly suction pool cleaner, dual water-fall, no heat or spa, and a broken Pentair SWG!

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