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Thread: Pump suction, Poolvernuegen cleaner

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    Pump suction, Poolvernuegen cleaner

    New to pool ownership and this forum. Definitely seems to be the place to come to for the do it yourself pool owners, lots of really good advice from what I have seen so far! The Poolvernuegen 4X suction cleaner in my pool has a really hard time making it around the pool, has a hard time getting out of the deep end and nowhere close to climbing the walls. Focused on the cleaner first, put new tires on and inspected gears, hoses, etc. All seems good but I could be missing something. Filters and pump basket are clean and lines appear to be clog free. I can only adjust the suction so far with the Jandy diverter before the pump starts to struggle, almost like its water starved or taking in air. If I pull cleaner and leave port open it clears up. I'm kind of stumped, and not sure how to proceed any thoughts would be appreciated. Thanks!
    Above ground Pebble Tech, 22K Gal, Chlorine, DE filter, 2HP Hayward SS pump, Poolvernuegen 4X suction cleaner.

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    Re: Pump suction, Poolvernuegen cleaner

    Welcome to the forum.
    If I pull cleaner and leave port open it clears up.
    Not sure what you mean. Can you clarify? Has it been running OK in the past? Is it new?
    Dave S.
    42k vinyl and concrete pool, 1.5hp pump, 140gpm filter
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    mas985's Avatar
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    Re: Pump suction, Poolvernuegen cleaner

    First, the newer cleaners don't climb walls as well as the older version. Also, that cleaner does not have any brushes so there really is no point in climbing the walls anyway.

    Have you counted the RPM of the wheels? If that is within the requirements then you may need to adjust the float. All of these things are in manual.

    You mention inspecting the gears and hoses but did you check the vanes as well? You should be able to spin the wheels by hand if the vanes are free.
    Mark
    Hydraulics 101; Pump Ed 101; Pump/Pool Spreadsheets; Pump Run Time Study; DIY Acid Dosing; DIY Cover Roller
    18'x36' 20k plaster, MaxFlo SP2303VSP, Aqualogic PS8 SWCG, 420 sq-ft Cartridge, Solar, 6 jet spa, 1 HP jet pump, 400k BTU NG Heater

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    Re: Pump suction, Poolvernuegen cleaner

    Welcome to TFP!

    How fast can you get the wheel to turn without problems? Does your pool have main drain or multiple skimmers?

    I assume you have the flow diverter for the cleaner fully open?
    TFP Moderator
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    Re: Pump suction, Poolvernuegen cleaner

    How are you connecting it to the pool, through the skimmer or dedicated port and how many skimmers do you have?
    16k gal plaster with raised spa, Jandy DEV60 filter, 2 HP 2-speed SHPF Jandy Stealth pump
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    Re: Pump suction, Poolvernuegen cleaner

    First, welcome to the forum. I'm impressed you have all your info in your sig already. Big thumbs up for that.


    On the problems you're describing. When you crank the suction to just the cleaner, Do you see air in the pump basket?


    Is all the air out of the hose? - it needs to be.

    The poolvernuegen has a certain amount of suction that it's designed to work with. If you have the manual, look in there. someone may post it here too.
    IG gunite/plaster pool/spa Started 1/17/14, Plastered 5/16/14
    Size: 12'-21'x39' free form, depth ranging from 4' to 7, attached 6 person spa with spillover.
    Equipment: Whisperflo 2hp pump, Pentair 30" sand filter, Pentair Mastertemp 400k BTU heater, 1hp Whisperflo for waterfalls, and a blower for spa floor

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    Re: Pump suction, Poolvernuegen cleaner

    The cleaner is a few years old. The vanes spin freely. The wheel RPM count is in range per manual, has no problem spinning until meeting resistance by hand or back on pool bottom. Dedicated port, one skimmer.
    Above ground Pebble Tech, 22K Gal, Chlorine, DE filter, 2HP Hayward SS pump, Poolvernuegen 4X suction cleaner.

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    Re: Pump suction, Poolvernuegen cleaner

    Welcome to the forum Cope55
    '70s IG Vinyl 32K gal, Lazy L, Hayward SuperPump 1.5hp 120V, S240 Sand Filter W/DE
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    Re: Pump suction, Poolvernuegen cleaner

    Did this cleaner work properly at one time?

    Are you using The Pool Cleaners diverter or adjusting the port valve on the plumbing? You should only have to use the port valve and open it enough so it turns the wheels at 11-13 RPM.

    Does the pump basket fill with air when the cleaner is under a load? If so, look for a small leak in the hoses. Are the hoses straight when laid down outside of pool?
    16k gal plaster with raised spa, Jandy DEV60 filter, 2 HP 2-speed SHPF Jandy Stealth pump
    Hayward Aqua Rite T-15 SWCG, Jandy LXi 400k BTU NG heater, 350 sq.ft. of Sun Star solar panels, TF-100 Test Kit, Dolphin s300i Cleaner
    Test Kits . Pool Math . Chlorine/CYA Chart . The SLAM Process

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    Re: Pump suction, Poolvernuegen cleaner

    We've been in the house about a month. Pool is probably around ten years old. Cleaner worked poorly at first, cleaned filter and cleared leaves from pump basket which helped. Yes, pump basket fills with air and pressure drops when cleaner is under load. Is it possible that when under load pump can draw in air from a leak somewhere else in the system?
    Above ground Pebble Tech, 22K Gal, Chlorine, DE filter, 2HP Hayward SS pump, Poolvernuegen 4X suction cleaner.

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    Re: Pump suction, Poolvernuegen cleaner

    Quote Originally Posted by Cope55 View Post
    We've been in the house about a month. Pool is probably around ten years old. Cleaner worked poorly at first, cleaned filter and cleared leaves from pump basket which helped. Yes, pump basket fills with air and pressure drops when cleaner is under load. Is it possible that when under load pump can draw in air from a leak somewhere else in the system?
    Are you using the diverter that came with the cleaner? If so, where is it set?
    TFP Moderator
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    Hayward S244T Sand Filter with 1HP Whisperflo Pump. Liquidator C-201 and Solar Heat

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    Re: Pump suction, Poolvernuegen cleaner

    Quote Originally Posted by Cope55 View Post
    Is it possible that when under load pump can draw in air from a leak somewhere else in the system?
    Absolutely! When you change the diverter valve, it increase the suction in the cleaner but this also increases the suction at the pump so it is much easier to draw in air from the pump basket lid, drain plugs and even valves. So at the extremes, this can happen fairly easily. It just means that there is high suction in the plumbing.

    But if the cleaner has the correct RPM, then it should operate as advertised. Exactly what is the cleaner doing that you do not think is correct?

    If it is not getting into the shallow end, that is probably due to the float level not being set properly. If it is just about climbing walls, as I mentioned before the newer version has problems with climbing walls. Also, new tires makes it harder for the cleaner to climb walls. Also, the float level can affect this as well. If it is not moving fast enough for your liking and the wheels are at the correct RPM, then it is what it is.
    Mark
    Hydraulics 101; Pump Ed 101; Pump/Pool Spreadsheets; Pump Run Time Study; DIY Acid Dosing; DIY Cover Roller
    18'x36' 20k plaster, MaxFlo SP2303VSP, Aqualogic PS8 SWCG, 420 sq-ft Cartridge, Solar, 6 jet spa, 1 HP jet pump, 400k BTU NG Heater

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    Re: Pump suction, Poolvernuegen cleaner

    Hose plugged directly into cleaner port. Adjusted at Jandy valve.
    Above ground Pebble Tech, 22K Gal, Chlorine, DE filter, 2HP Hayward SS pump, Poolvernuegen 4X suction cleaner.

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    Re: Pump suction, Poolvernuegen cleaner

    Thanks for all the input, much appreciated. I'll double check the RPM and play with float levels tonight. Thx
    Above ground Pebble Tech, 22K Gal, Chlorine, DE filter, 2HP Hayward SS pump, Poolvernuegen 4X suction cleaner.

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    Re: Pump suction, Poolvernuegen cleaner

    Fine tuned to 12 RPM(no noticeable air in system at that setting) and tried different float positions. Still not working correctly. It's not that it isn't moving fast enough, it hesitates or doesn't move forward at all. Hold above pool surface wheels turn, put it back down-no go. Driveshaft doesn't turn with slight resistance. Pulled cleaner apart again, the vanes do show wear-some small nicks and scrapes. Maybe time for an overhaul of the cleaner itself?
    Above ground Pebble Tech, 22K Gal, Chlorine, DE filter, 2HP Hayward SS pump, Poolvernuegen 4X suction cleaner.

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    Re: Pump suction, Poolvernuegen cleaner

    Yea it sounds like there is something wrong with the cleaner drive. Try to tilt the wheels to see if the wheel hub races are worn out (i.e. holes are enlarged). I recently had to replace mine because the wheels wobbled too much. Also, check the skirt to make sure all those pieces move freely. I would also reinspect all the drive components to make sure all teeth are in each cog and nothing is hanging up the vanes.
    Mark
    Hydraulics 101; Pump Ed 101; Pump/Pool Spreadsheets; Pump Run Time Study; DIY Acid Dosing; DIY Cover Roller
    18'x36' 20k plaster, MaxFlo SP2303VSP, Aqualogic PS8 SWCG, 420 sq-ft Cartridge, Solar, 6 jet spa, 1 HP jet pump, 400k BTU NG Heater

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    Re: Pump suction, Poolvernuegen cleaner

    The culprit was a worn gear drive shaft(where the shaft spins in housing) which didn't allow gears to properly engage. Overlooked this as I was focusing more on the gear teeth, cleaner is now working great. Thanks to all that offered advice!
    Above ground Pebble Tech, 22K Gal, Chlorine, DE filter, 2HP Hayward SS pump, Poolvernuegen 4X suction cleaner.

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    Re: Pump suction, Poolvernuegen cleaner

    Quote Originally Posted by Cope55 View Post
    The culprit was a worn gear drive shaft(where the shaft spins in housing) which didn't allow gears to properly engage. Overlooked this as I was focusing more on the gear teeth, cleaner is now working great. Thanks to all that offered advice!
    Thanks for posting the update. May save somebody else the headache of tracking down the same problem!
    TFP Moderator
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    Hayward S244T Sand Filter with 1HP Whisperflo Pump. Liquidator C-201 and Solar Heat

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