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Thread: SWG and Milky Water Only when SWG is on

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    SWG and Milky Water Only when SWG is on

    So, I opened my pool this year and it was a swampy mess because I did not have time to put a cover on it which was a very big mistake. Basically to make a long story short I converted the pool over to a SWG. I have a 40,000 gallon gunite pool that is painted in epoxy and I am using 2 Saltron Retro's. These are not inline salt generators. You may ask why not an inline generator. It is because my pump is above my pool and I have a back flow valve to keep the pump from draining. After a while the water will drain and because of this I cannot keep the pump on a timer, so I need chlorine to be generating even when the pump is not on when I am on vacation.

    Basically I finally got rid of the algae and my pool water is clear with a slight cloudiness to it. I can see straight to the bottom of the pool, but the second the SWG's turn on there is this white milkiness that forms over the top of the water.

    I have read on the forums that this may have something to do with hydrogen.

    I did put alga-side in Algae Eliminator Max by Aqua Chem when opening the pool, but it says it is non-foaming. I thought this might be the issue initially, but it has been well over 1.5 weeks since I did that.

    I did notice there are bubbles in my pump basket and I looked at the outlet above my pump basket and noticed there is a very slow water leak there.

    What in the world is causing this, could it be the slow water leak and the hydrogen?

    Thanks,

    Josh

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    JasonLion's Avatar
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    Re: SWG and Milky Water Only when SWG is on

    Welcome to TFP!

    SWGs always produce bubbles. Usually these bubbles are nearly invisible and pop very quickly. In some rare situations they produce very small bubbles that don't pop right away, and instead spread out in the pool and cause a milky effect. If you balance all of your levels correctly and wait a few days the effect invariably goes away.
    19K gal, vinyl, 1/2 HP WhisperFlo pump, 200 sqft cartridge filter, AutoPilot Digital SWG, Dolphin Dynamic cleaning robot
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    Re: SWG and Milky Water Only when SWG is on

    So, I just got my taylor k-2006 and tested the chemicals in my water. They are off much more than I thought. Here are my levels
    5.4ppm of free chlorine in pool
    combined chlorine of 0.8ppm
    ph 7.4
    alkalinity 240
    calcium hardness 120
    cya level is off the chart at like 150 or so


    I think I may need to super chlorinate because my combined chlorine is 0.8. How much shock or liquid chlorine do I need in order to do this with my pool? My pool is 40,000 gallons. I read the charts listed on the site, but my cya level is so far off the chart I have no idea how much shock to add to the pool.

    Thanks,

    Josh

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    Divin Dave's Avatar
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    Re: SWG and Milky Water Only when SWG is on

    Man you really need to get your CYA down. Unless your water is sooo expensive that you cant stand it or you have water rationing, you are better adivsed to drain at least half, then refill and test CYA again. Then if necessary drain some more water. CYA at that level is going to be unmanageable.

    After drain and refill, you need to do an overnight Clorine Loss test before you decide to slam. Just because the CC is above .5 doesnt necessarily mean you have, or about to get a algae bloom. Lots of things can cause a soft rise in CC, such as lots of pollen or seeds from weeds and trees like I have now in my pool.

    To do overnight chlorine Loss - Test your water for FC 30 minutes after dark, and then test again just before the sun comes up. If you loose more than 1 ppm FC, then something is going on and you need to slam.

    You would be lots of dollars and heartaches ahead by draining at least half the water and refilling so you can get your CYA to a manageable level ASAP, before the weather gets any warmer and the algae starts to really take off.

    SLAMMING is not a one time thing. It could take 3 days or 3 weeks, depending on how bad the algae gets. You raise the FC and you keep it at that high level until 3 tests are passed.
    1. CC is <.5
    2. OCLT is < 1
    3. Pool is clear

    SLAM level FC is about 39-40% of the CYA level.

    Here is an example of what you are looking at with CYA of 150 if you try to SLAM now.
    If your CYA is really 150 and no higher, then 150*.39 = 58ppm FC for SLAM
    With a current FC level of 6, you would need to add 25 gallons of 8.25% bleach just to get you to SLAM level of 58.

    Lets assume you will loose 30% FC per day (~20ppm) duing the slam, you would need to add 9.5 gallons to get back to 58ppm FC
    BTW, 20 ppm is optimistic. If you actually had a full blow algae bloom, you could easily loose 40ppm a day which would take 19 gallons of bleach every day for possibly many days....

    Where I live, bleach cost 4$ a gallon.
    And you would need LOTS and LOTS of test regents to test of that much chlorine.

    So, thats the math for ya.

    Hope this helps,
    Divin Dave,
    IG Vinyl, 15' x 30', 3 1/2' - 6' deep, Oval, ~15K gal, Intelliclor IC40, Intelliflo VS pump, Clean and Clear 420 Filter, auto-fill-disabled, Retrofit LED Color Light, Dolphin Nautilus Robot, TF100 Test Kit, Taylor K1766 Salt Test Kit, Tftestkit Pressure Gauge.
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    Re: SWG and Milky Water Only when SWG is on

    Thanks for the response,
    I was hoping not to hear this because draining the water is going to cost me a lot of money in salt in my pool for the SWG's and additional chemicals and I have probably already put 400 to 500 dollars worth of chemicals into the pool already because I started with a green swamp and everything was 0 including the cya when i started. I was told to put 15lbs of stabilizer into my pool since my cya was at zero and my pool was 40000 gallons. This apparently was not correct.

    My pool tends to lose about 1 to 1.5 inches of water or more over about 3 to 5 days through heat loss and I think there is possibly a slow leak. I do not plan on getting into the pool for about 1 month. I just started early because my pool was a mess. Is it possible that the cya will drop to a more respectable level in about 1 month since I am adding water about every 3 days or so and this is obviously slowly diluting the cya levels?



    I had just put 30 bags of salt in my pool, by draining the pool by 50% would require me to put another 15 bags of salt back into my pool just from doing this 1 time.

    Is there no alternative to just draining the pool?

    Josh

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    Re: SWG and Milky Water Only when SWG is on

    The 1-1.5 inches of water loss in 3-5 days could be evaporation as that is about what I'm experiencing with my pool right now and I know it doesn't leak. With evaporation, none of the chemical levels will change as only pure water leaves the pool as it evaporates.

    Adding 15lbs. of stabilizer added 45 ppm of CYA and the rest must have come from the chlorine you used to shock the pool. This is the reason we recommend to only use liquid chlorine when SLAMing, shocking, the pool as liquid chlorine only adds a little salt and the other forms add CYA or calcium.

    If you do not want to fight the pool all summer long I suggest to bite the bullet and drain some water. Then follow our advice and enjoy a nice pool all season long. To replace the salt do not buy "pool salt", use solar salt from one of the big box stores for about half the cost. In the long run it will be more expensive to save this water than to replace it now.

    You are not the first to follow pool store advice and spend a fortune and ending up with water that needs to be drained and you will not be the last.
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    Divin Dave's Avatar
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    Re: SWG and Milky Water Only when SWG is on

    Josh, Its very unfortunate, but true, that most pool store testing and their recommendations cost people a lot of money and misery. TFP is full of people who like you, were just given bad advice by people who just dont understand, but Im sure their intentions were good.

    There are a few decent pool stores here and there, but they are hard to find.

    I wish we had better news for you. I really do.
    Divin Dave,
    IG Vinyl, 15' x 30', 3 1/2' - 6' deep, Oval, ~15K gal, Intelliclor IC40, Intelliflo VS pump, Clean and Clear 420 Filter, auto-fill-disabled, Retrofit LED Color Light, Dolphin Nautilus Robot, TF100 Test Kit, Taylor K1766 Salt Test Kit, Tftestkit Pressure Gauge.
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    Re: SWG and Milky Water Only when SWG is on

    Quote Originally Posted by Divin Dave View Post
    Man you really need to get your CYA down. Unless your water is sooo expensive that you cant stand it or you have water rationing, you are better adivsed to drain at least half, then refill and test CYA again. Then if necessary drain some more water. CYA at that level is going to be unmanageable.
    I have decided to just bite the bullet and drain the pool. Would it be enough to just drain the 3 ft side of the pool down to nothing? The pool is 20 by 40 ft so draining this much would be about 18000 gallons which is not quite half of the pool?

    Also, after I retest and get the stabalizer back to where it should be. If I need to shock should I just use liquid chlorine/bleach and not super shock in the pack?


    Thanks,

    Josh

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    JasonLion's Avatar
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    Re: SWG and Milky Water Only when SWG is on

    For vinyl and fiberglass pools you shouldn't drain down further than 1 foot of water in the shallow end. For a gunite/plaster/pebble/etc pool draining as described should be fine as long as the water table isn't unusually high.
    19K gal, vinyl, 1/2 HP WhisperFlo pump, 200 sqft cartridge filter, AutoPilot Digital SWG, Dolphin Dynamic cleaning robot
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    Re: SWG and Milky Water Only when SWG is on

    Thanks my pool is gunite so I should be ok. I am going to immediately start refilling also. I have a pump draining it, it should be totally drained by the end of the day on the shallow end.

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    Re: SWG and Milky Water Only when SWG is on

    Sorry to hear of your issues. I was in your situation last year and did a major drain and fill to reduce cya. After that I followed the TFP method. While it was frustrating to face having to drain, the outcome was fantastic.

    As far as your question - "If I need to shock should I just use liquid chlorine/bleach and not super shock in the pack?" - you should pick up some liquid chlorine/bleach as that is what you will mostly be using. If you buy bleach get bleach that is not scented or easy-pour or anything like that. Depending on what is in the shock in the pack, you may be able to use it to depending on what is in the shock and what your test results show after the drain/fill.

    If you look at the bottom of Pool Math there is a section called "Effects of adding chemicals". So for example, if you look at the ingredients for the shock pack and see that it is 48% cal-hypo you may be able to use it if you need to raise your CH level and you will know exactly what it will do to your pool chemical levels.

    Once you have new test results, post them and people here will be glad to help you from there.
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    Divin Dave's Avatar
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    Re: SWG and Milky Water Only when SWG is on

    Yes. Use only liquid chlorine a.k.a. liquid pool shock. or 8.25% bleach. As swoopman says, dont use any scented or splashless types of bleach. Just regualar old fashion bleach.
    Brand name is not important. Just get the cheapest you can find.

    Quote Originally Posted by jewilki1 View Post
    If I need to shock should I just use liquid chlorine/bleach and not super shock in the pack?

    Josh
    Divin Dave,
    IG Vinyl, 15' x 30', 3 1/2' - 6' deep, Oval, ~15K gal, Intelliclor IC40, Intelliflo VS pump, Clean and Clear 420 Filter, auto-fill-disabled, Retrofit LED Color Light, Dolphin Nautilus Robot, TF100 Test Kit, Taylor K1766 Salt Test Kit, Tftestkit Pressure Gauge.
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    Re: SWG and Milky Water Only when SWG is on

    So my pool is finally filled back up with water it took me over 24 hrs to fill the pool back up after just draining it 50%. I have my aquabot in the water and the pool pump have been running about 1 hr. How long should I wait until I test the chemical and cya levels. Do I need to let the pool pump run for 24 hrs?


    Thanks,

    Josh

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    Re: SWG and Milky Water Only when SWG is on

    After you've refilled to the desired level, circulate for about an hour and you'll have a pretty good idea of where things are at. You can then test for CYA. Just be sure when you SLAM this time, you're using only liquid chlorine (BLEACH) and not powdered varieties.

    Also, when it's time to add salt, just buy the cheapest water softener salt you can find. Make sure it's not anti-rust or other formulation, just salt.
    Joel - TFP Moderator - Minnesota - **Become a TFP Supporter!** Helpful Links: ABCs of Pool Water Chemistry - SLAM Procedure - Chlorine/CYA Chart
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    Re: SWG and Milky Water Only when SWG is on

    Quote Originally Posted by JVTrain View Post
    After you've refilled to the desired level, circulate for about an hour and you'll have a pretty good idea of where things are at. You can then test for CYA. Just be sure when you SLAM this time, you're using only liquid chlorine (BLEACH) and not powdered varieties.

    Also, when it's time to add salt, just buy the cheapest water softener salt you can find. Make sure it's not anti-rust or other formulation, just salt.
    Thanks I have 10 of the walmart brand bleach 128oz each at 8.25%. How many would it take to slam the pool?

    Also, as far as the pool salt goes I live in a rural area and walmart and lowes are the only 2 places I can get salt from and all they carry is morton's pool salt. No one has solar salt around me.

    My pool is 40000 gallons by the way.

    Thanks,

    Josh

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    Re: SWG and Milky Water Only when SWG is on

    How to SLAM:

    http://www.troublefreepool.com/conte...tain-shockingl

    SLAM is a process. Not a one time thing. The amount of liquid chlorine is dependent on your CYA level. Here's the handy chart.

    http://www.troublefreepool.com/conte...art-slam-shock
    27' AG 18K Gallons ~ Cartridge Filter ~ Pentair 1.5 HP Pump

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    Re: SWG and Milky Water Only when SWG is on

    Here are my levels now and I am running a swg but I am not going to put any salt back in until i get my levels correct. Should I go ahead and put the salt in? My pool has a slight green hue to it do I need to slam before I correct anything else?


    cya between 70 and 80
    fc 4.8
    cc 0.4
    ph 7.4
    alkalinity 130
    calcium hardness 80

    I am pretty close to the recommended settings for the swg. I need to increase my ch and lower my alkalinity alittle bid.

    http://www.troublefreepool.com/conte...rine-generator

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    Re: SWG and Milky Water Only when SWG is on

    Do I even need to slam my pool even though I am seeing a green tint to the pool do I even need to slam I am at 0.4 with the combined chlorine?

    Thanks,

    Josh

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    Re: SWG and Milky Water Only when SWG is on

    Any visible signs of algae requires a SLAM. Your salt levels are the least of your problems with green in the pool.

    1. Turn the SWG off. Turn the pump on 24/7.
    2. Review the CYA/Chlorine Chart. For a SWG pool with a CYA 80, your shock level chlorine is 31. Use Pool Math (link at the top of the page) to determine how much liquid chlorine you would need to add to get to 31.
    3. Slowly add the bleach in front of a return.
    4. Review the SLAM article I linked while you wait.
    5. Allow it circulate and retest in 1 hour.
    6. Add enough bleach to again get to 31.
    7. Repeat every hour if possible but no less than twice a day until the following happens....

    Your water is crystal clear. As in so clear you can read the date on a quarter if you threw it in the deepest part of the pool clear.
    You have a CC < 0.5.
    You have an overnight chlorine loss of <1ppm as outline in the OCLT. http://www.troublefreepool.com/conte...loss-test-oclt

    Good luck, Josh! And post a picture please!
    27' AG 18K Gallons ~ Cartridge Filter ~ Pentair 1.5 HP Pump

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    Re: SWG and Milky Water Only when SWG is on

    If the water is crystal clear and also green that might be a metals problem. But if it is at all cloudy hazy green it is almost certainly algae.
    19K gal, vinyl, 1/2 HP WhisperFlo pump, 200 sqft cartridge filter, AutoPilot Digital SWG, Dolphin Dynamic cleaning robot
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