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Thread: Numbers too high - how do I fix?

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    Numbers too high - how do I fix?

    I've never had a pool before but I've been on TFP for a while now and I've leaned a lot. But now practical application begins. We have a salt pool and our pool school guy (not PB) found out we were missing the piece that electrically converts salt to chlorine (don't recall the name). Got that fixed but now but our salt is too high and I don't know how to fix it. I tested today and now chlorine is too high.

    Salt 3780
    pH 7.5
    Cl 5
    Br 10
    TA 90

    I adjusted the pool chlorinator percentage on the equipment panel from 60% to 50%. Is that the right thing to do? What else should I do?
    21k gal IG, SWG, WetEdge Satin Matrix Antigua in pool, Primera Stone Tahoe Coast in spa, 430 sq ft cartridge filter, 2.7 HP variable speed pump, infloor cleaner

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    Mod Squad tim5055's Avatar
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    Re: Numbers too high - how do I fix?

    What test kit are you using? How did you get a Br reading in a CL pool?

    The big questionis what is your CYA level, because that determines if you have "too much" chlorine.

    If your FC is too high, then turning down the SWG is a good idea. But with what you have given us we can't say it's high.
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    Re: Numbers too high - how do I fix?

    I used the TFP Taylor test kit. The Br is next to the Cl. Guess it doesn't mean anything with a salt pool? I did the CYA test yesterday but couldn't get a reading. This is the one that takes a few times to "get it", right? I was able to see the black dot with water all the way up the tube so I don't know what that means :-/

    - - - Updated - - -

    Shouldn't the Cl be less tthan 5? It's been creeping up over the last week while salt is about the same.

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    Re: Numbers too high - how do I fix?

    To lower the salt content you'll need to drain some water off and refill. PoolMath says on a 21K to dump about 15% volume to go from 3700 to 3200. I'm just guessing on that 3200 target. Best to check your SWCG to see what they recommend.

    Usually with a SWCG you will want to be around 70 for a CYA level and the appropriate FC level with that would be to target 5 daily and never go below 3. If your CYA is higher you need a higher ppm FC.

    (Br is bromine and it's mostly for spas.)
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    Re: Numbers too high - how do I fix?

    If you are still able to see the black dot and you have followed the testing directions accurately, then it means you have less than 20ppm of CYA in your pool. If your SWG is currently making chlorine then I would not worry about lowering the salt content. What you need to do is raise the CYA to 70ppm and adjust the output of the SWC to keep the chlorine level between 3-5ppm.

    You can buy CYA (also known as pool conditioner or stabilizer) from a pool store or just about any place that sells pool chemicals. Add the CYA by placing it in a long, clean sock tied off in front of a return fitting while the pump is running. Give it a good squeeze a few times a day to help it dissolve.
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    Re: Numbers too high - how do I fix?

    Have you read through the Pool School articles here yet? When I was new to my pool, I read through the articles and wrote up for myself a chart of what my pool's ideal test results should be (often within a range, not just one number exactly). These vary per pool based on the type of pool (cement, vinyl or fiberglass), how it is sanitized (SWG or bleach, for example) and other variables. Then when I tested everything, I could see what was out of line right there. It helped me learn what tests to perform and how often (some daily, some weekly, others monthly maybe)

    I think it would be helpful if you read up and determined what all your levels should be.
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    Re: Numbers too high - how do I fix?

    Quote Originally Posted by zea3 View Post
    If you are still able to see the black dot and you have followed the testing directions accurately, then it means you have less than 20ppm of CYA in your pool. If your SWG is currently making chlorine then I would not worry about lowering the salt content. What you need to do is raise the CYA to 70ppm and adjust the output of the SWC to keep the chlorine level between 3-5ppm.

    You can buy CYA (also known as pool conditioner or stabilizer) from a pool store or just about any place that sells pool chemicals. Add the CYA by placing it in a long, clean sock tied off in front of a return fitting while the pump is running. Give it a good squeeze a few times a day to help it dissolve.
    Those were my exact thoughts, although I'm just a rookie at this stuff.

    Seeing the black dot means too low CYA. Just take your time raising the CYA level because you'll need to drain some water if you add too much CYA. Initially shoot for something lower than 70, and slowly work it up to there is the only advice I can offer.

    I was also thinking no need to drain to lower the salt, as the SWG will lower that number over time as it converts the salt to chlorine.
    Our pool is 15,000 gallons fresh water with a Hayward C5025 cartridge filter system; inground plaster. We bought the house Oct 2014.

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    Re: Numbers too high - how do I fix?

    The SWCG doesn't use up salt. You only loose it though backwashing if you do that, splash out and draining. In a perfect world once you add salt you would never need to add again.
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    Re: Numbers too high - how do I fix?

    Quote Originally Posted by kiss4afrog View Post
    The SWCG doesn't use up salt. You only loose it thought backwashing if you do that, splash out and draining. In a perfect world once you add salt you would never need to add again.
    Thanks; my bad. I thought it was something that needed to be replaced, much like chlorine. I still have a lot to learn.
    Our pool is 15,000 gallons fresh water with a Hayward C5025 cartridge filter system; inground plaster. We bought the house Oct 2014.

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    Re: Numbers too high - how do I fix?

    There are two chlorine tests in the TF100. The OTO test, which is part of the blue Taylor K1000 box inside the TF100, and the FAS-DPD chlorine test which used R-0870 powder and R-0871 drops. The OTO test only gives you a vague notion of the chlorine level when it is higher than 2, as the various shades of yellow get very difficult to distinguish above 2. The FAS-DPD test gives you much more precise FC and CC readings up to much higher FC levels (as high as 50 in steps of 0.5).

    I recommend doing a FAS-DPD chlorine test to pin down exactly what your FC level is. That will help give you an idea of how much the SWG can be turned down.
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    Re: Numbers too high - how do I fix?

    Ok I ran the more precise chlorine test just now and FC is 4, CC is 0.5. PH is a little higher today at 7.8, salt is still high at 3780.

    What, if anything, should I do? If my salt cell is converting the salt to chlorine, should I turn the percentage down? It's at 50% now. If I do, won't they drive my salt levels higher?
    21k gal IG, SWG, WetEdge Satin Matrix Antigua in pool, Primera Stone Tahoe Coast in spa, 430 sq ft cartridge filter, 2.7 HP variable speed pump, infloor cleaner

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    Re: Numbers too high - how do I fix?

    Salt levels don't change unless you replace water or add salt.

    If your CYA is at 20, you will need to add more.

    Is FC going up, going down, or staying steady?

    Finally, please keep reading in Pool School, especially "The ABCs of Pool Water Chemistry." We will absolutely help you, but you will need to develop a foundation of knowledge in order to understand our answers.
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    Re: Numbers too high - how do I fix?

    What he (Smykowdki) said.

    It's a personal choice but 7.2 to 7.8 is acceptable for pH but I like to keep mine closer to 7.2 as it tends to rise in my pool.
    You need that FC of 4 and would be better off trying to get closer to 5 and that would depend on bather load as you don't want to drop under 3ppm FC once you get that CYA to 70 or close.

    If you want to bring the salt level down the only ,, only way to do it is to drain water out and refill.

    The information I gave you in post number #4 above hasn't changed but maybe if some other members tell you the same thing you'll accept it. I even did the math so you can follow what I'm saying and how I got to those conclusions. Also if I'm wrong, it's easy for someone else to come in and correct me.

    Here it is again: To lower the salt content you'll need to drain some water off and refill. PoolMath says on a 21K to dump about 15% volume to go from 3700 to 3200. I'm just guessing on that 3200 target. Best to check your SWCG to see what they recommend.

    Usually with a SWCG you will want to be around 70 for a CYA level and the appropriate FC level with that would be to target 5 daily and never go below 3. If your CYA is higher you need a higher ppm FC.

    (Br is bromine and it's mostly for spas.)
    '70s IG Vinyl 32K gal, Lazy L, Hayward SuperPump 1.5hp 120V, S240 Sand Filter W/DE
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    Re: Numbers too high - how do I fix?

    Thanks guys, really appreciate it. I feel like I am learning a whole new language here and it's a steep learning curve, so I really appreciate your patience and explanations. I need to go back and reread pool chem again; it makes more sense each time I do. Tomorrow I will try to test CYA again and see if I can read it more accurately. Also need to figure out how to drain the pool. Is it pretty universal? There is something that looks like a hose spigot above the water feature pump. Wonder if that's it.
    21k gal IG, SWG, WetEdge Satin Matrix Antigua in pool, Primera Stone Tahoe Coast in spa, 430 sq ft cartridge filter, 2.7 HP variable speed pump, infloor cleaner

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    Re: Numbers too high - how do I fix?

    I've got the pool draining now to adjust salt levels.

    Numbers today
    FC 6.5 higher today but I believd because my husband ran the pump overnight Sat night.
    CC 0.5
    TA 90
    Ca hardness 400 - is this high because my pool is new?
    CYA <20 - does the water get cloudier as you fill the tube up? Is that how the black dot disappears?

    FC there are different recommended ranges on this website. Under Water Balance for SWG, the recommended is 4-6. Under Handy Reference -> Recommended Levels, it is 3-5. Which is correct?

    I have used spa and pool water to test chemicals because they are on the same system/pump. Would that affect my readings?
    21k gal IG, SWG, WetEdge Satin Matrix Antigua in pool, Primera Stone Tahoe Coast in spa, 430 sq ft cartridge filter, 2.7 HP variable speed pump, infloor cleaner

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    Re: Numbers too high - how do I fix?

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NxaqoW-_MCs

    A YouTube video to show you how to test CYA using the TF-100 test kit.
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    Re: Numbers too high - how do I fix?

    In "Pool School" there is a table of contents and a Chlorine/CYA chart, this guy - - > http://www.troublefreepool.com/conte...art-slam-shock

    The upper part is regular liquid chlorine pool and the lower part is for SWCGs, like yours.



    As you do the test, pouring the liquid into the tube it should slowly block out the dot.

    If you run the pump longer and the SWCG is on, they yes you will be producing more chlorine. Same as if you crank up the "%".

    How does your water look ?? Any signs of algae ??
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    Re: Numbers too high - how do I fix?

    Northrn that video was so helpful, thanks for posting the link!

    Kiss4afrog what do you think about this reference? http://www.troublefreepool.com/conte...mmended-levels

    Maybe I'm reading into it too much and it doesn't matter that much. My water looks great, no signs of algae and it is sparkling blue.

    I remembered we have an autofill feature on the pool connected to a separate water meter so it was filling as I was draining yesterday. After a few hours I stopped draining the pool but I'm not sure how much actually drained. Should I test again today or give it another day?
    21k gal IG, SWG, WetEdge Satin Matrix Antigua in pool, Primera Stone Tahoe Coast in spa, 430 sq ft cartridge filter, 2.7 HP variable speed pump, infloor cleaner

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    Re: Numbers too high - how do I fix?

    If you think you may have drained quite a lot, you can retest. Won't hurt.
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    Re: Numbers too high - how do I fix?

    Quote Originally Posted by aprillh View Post
    Kiss4afrog what do you think about this reference? http://www.troublefreepool.com/conte...mmended-levels
    If you look at that chart in that link you will see where it's saying recommended 3-5 or 4-6 it also has: See chart and the word "chart" is in blue and it's a link that takes you to the Chlorine/CYA chart I referenced.

    If you drained some out all you need is about 30 minutes run time with the pump and it should be mixed and good to sample. Same for adding chlorine, acid ... anything except CYA.
    CYA once dissolved takes a week. Salt and borax you should brush it around until it's dissolved and then give it the thirty before testing.
    '70s IG Vinyl 32K gal, Lazy L, Hayward SuperPump 1.5hp 120V, S240 Sand Filter W/DE
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