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Thread: Easytouch + IC + IntelliPH programming - requires two circuits?

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    Easytouch + IC + IntelliPH programming - requires two circuits?

    Hi - so I recently got the system installed (see sig) and I'm trying to get it so I have a "Low Speed" that runs at maybe 1800-2200 RPMs (enough to run the IC40) and a "High Speed" that runs at ~3000 RPMs to clean the pool.

    But I can't make the IntelliChlor+IntelliPH work in this scenario. I'm wondering if something is wired wrong.

    So I have
    Circuit Name Function
    Aux 2 -> Low Speed (Generic Function)
    Aux 3 -> Waterfall (Actuator->Generic Function)
    Pool -> High Speed (Pool)

    If I turn Low Speed on, the IC40+IntelliPH gets power but isn't enabled. Flow+Salt are green, but the IntelliPH says "Not dispensing System is Turned Off"
    If I turn High Speed on, only, the power to the IntelliPH+IC40 is not on. No lights, no power, nothing.
    If I turn _both_ on, it works. IC40 is making chlorine, the IntelliPH says it will dispense in 60 minutes, etc...

    From what I gather, I _should_ be able to put Pool -> Low speed, Aux 2 -> High Speed, and then run low speed to run IC40/low, and low speed _and_ high speed to run IC40 at high speed.

    But no combination gets me to that working if both circuits must be on for IntelliPH to work.

    Any ideas?
    Thanks!
    30k plaster pool
    Pentair 011018 IntelliFlo, Pentair CCP520, IC40 SWG, IntelliPH Acid system
    Easytouch 4 + ScreenLogic2

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    JasonLion's Avatar
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    Re: Easytouch + IC + IntelliPH programming - requires two circuits?

    The Pool circuit must be on for either the IC40 or IntelliPH to work. In addition there must be enough water flow to trigger the flow switch on the IC40. Try setting Pool to a fairly low speed, but not as low as whatever you are using now for low speed.
    19K gal, vinyl, 1/2 HP WhisperFlo pump, 200 sqft cartridge filter, AutoPilot Digital SWG, Dolphin Dynamic cleaning robot
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    Mod Squad pooldv's Avatar
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    Re: Easytouch + IC + IntelliPH programming - requires two circuits?

    My IC40 works fine with the pump at 1100rpm.
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    Re: Easytouch + IC + IntelliPH programming - requires two circuits?

    So I did some clearer testing.. I am using 2400RPMs which definitely is enough for the flow sensor, it's green.

    Basically AUX2 powers it, and POOL "enables" it. Without AUX2 enabled it gets no power. Without POOL enabled it doesn't set the SWG to >0% so the IC40 isn't "enabled".

    Is this normal? I'd think POOL would both power and set the salt level. I guess what I can do is just set it so AUX2 is like 0RPMs and use POOL for low speed and use a feature for high speed?
    30k plaster pool
    Pentair 011018 IntelliFlo, Pentair CCP520, IC40 SWG, IntelliPH Acid system
    Easytouch 4 + ScreenLogic2

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    JasonLion's Avatar
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    Re: Easytouch + IC + IntelliPH programming - requires two circuits?

    The AUX2 thing does not make sense. A variable speed pump should be wired directly to the circuit breaker, and thus always be getting power even when not running. It sounds like the pump might be wired to the output of the AUX2 relay, which would be a mistake.

    If I am correct, you should rewire the pump so it always gets power. What you suggested would also work, but seems like a waste of that relay.
    19K gal, vinyl, 1/2 HP WhisperFlo pump, 200 sqft cartridge filter, AutoPilot Digital SWG, Dolphin Dynamic cleaning robot
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    Re: Easytouch + IC + IntelliPH programming - requires two circuits?

    Sorry, I wasn't clear by saying "powers it" ..whatever "it" is

    The pump is always on, AUX2 or Pool.

    AUX2 ON: Pump on, IC40 On, IntelliPH on (but "disabled" - no salt generated)
    POOL ON: Pump on, IC40/IntelliPH Off
    POOL+AUX2 ON: Pump on, IC40/IntelliPH On, and everything works (salt generated 20% as expected)

    So if something is amiss, seems like it would be the IC40 power source?
    30k plaster pool
    Pentair 011018 IntelliFlo, Pentair CCP520, IC40 SWG, IntelliPH Acid system
    Easytouch 4 + ScreenLogic2

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    Mod Squad pooldv's Avatar
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    Re: Easytouch + IC + IntelliPH programming - requires two circuits?

    Just to give another perspective on Pentair automation that might be helpful but not directly related to the Easytouch.

    I have a Pentair Solartouch, Pentair VS pump and IC40 and here is how it is wired and works.
    VSPump power is wired directly to the circuit breaker and is always "on" but not always running
    IC40 is also wired directly to another circuit breaker and is always "on" but doesn't always have flow to make chlorine
    The VSpump controller cable (2 low voltage wires) goes from the pump to the Solartouch so that the Solartouch can turn the pump on or off or change the pump speed.

    Normal run mode is 1100 rpm for skimming and making chlorine. When solar heat is available the Solartouch increases pump speed to 1950rpm for solar and IC40 still makes chlorine because there is water flow. When nothing is on the pump rpm is set to 0rpm, but is still "on" and the IC40 stops making chlorine due to low flow, but it is still "on".

    I think you might be losing something in the relays providing power to equipment rather than the control cables controlling the equipment.
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    JasonLion's Avatar
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    Re: Easytouch + IC + IntelliPH programming - requires two circuits?

    Check to see what, if anything, is connected to the output of the AUX2 relay.
    19K gal, vinyl, 1/2 HP WhisperFlo pump, 200 sqft cartridge filter, AutoPilot Digital SWG, Dolphin Dynamic cleaning robot
    Creator of PoolMath and Pool Calculator. Other handy links: Support this site, TF Test Kits, Pool School

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    Mod Squad pooldv's Avatar
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    Re: Easytouch + IC + IntelliPH programming - requires two circuits?

    Just another point about relays vs controller cables. Relays are used to turn stuff on and off that cannot be hooked up with a control cable. Like a single speed pump or a light. A pentair IC40 and VSpump are designed to be controlled by the automation equipment but not necessarily powered by it. You can power it too if you want, but the benefit of using all Pentair with with Pentair automation (or any other brand) is the additional control that you get.

    So the IC40 needs power, from a breaker or a relay. But, it also needs to have the control cable wired to the Easytouch to turn off/on and set the chlorine percentage.
    Same for the VSpump. It needs power and the control cable wired to the Easytouch to turn the pump off/on and set the desired pump speed/rpm.
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    Re: Easytouch + IC + IntelliPH programming - requires two circuits?

    Here's a picture of my wiring, does anything stand out?

    30k plaster pool
    Pentair 011018 IntelliFlo, Pentair CCP520, IC40 SWG, IntelliPH Acid system
    Easytouch 4 + ScreenLogic2

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    Re: Easytouch + IC + IntelliPH programming - requires two circuits?

    The IC40+IntelliPH power supply is indeed being switched by AUX2, which is what is causing your problem.

    Meanwhile something external is being switched by the pump relay, but I have no idea what. That makes the correct fix, switching the IC40+IntelliPH power supply with the pump relay, complicated as it is likely to conflict with whatever is on the pump relay right now. Do you have any idea where the red and orange wires on the left most relay go?

    You also have the entire setup running off of a single circuit breaker, which is not recommended, though possibly allowed by code.
    19K gal, vinyl, 1/2 HP WhisperFlo pump, 200 sqft cartridge filter, AutoPilot Digital SWG, Dolphin Dynamic cleaning robot
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    Re: Easytouch + IC + IntelliPH programming - requires two circuits?

    Quote Originally Posted by JasonLion View Post
    The IC40+IntelliPH power supply is indeed being switched by AUX2, which is what is causing your problem.

    Meanwhile something external is being switched by the pump relay, but I have no idea what. That makes the correct fix, switching the IC40+IntelliPH power supply with the pump relay, complicated as it is likely to conflict with whatever is on the pump relay right now. Do you have any idea where the red and orange wires on the left most relay go?

    You also have the entire setup running off of a single circuit breaker, which is not recommended, though possibly allowed by code.
    A non gfci breaker to boot!..

    An intelliflo maxes out a 20amp breaker because of the 125% rule 16aX1.25= 20A

    Are the red/orange wires for the lights?

    Could you get another circuit for the IntelliPH and the Intellichlor? Typically you have those energized all of the time, not being switched by an aux circuit.
    20X40 30,000 gallon gunite pool

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    Re: Easytouch + IC + IntelliPH programming - requires two circuits?

    Thanks for looking guys.

    I _think_ the red/orange are for the lights. I had a plain old switch installed previously by the house to the Intellibrite lights, but he was able to pull the wires through over to the pool pad so I can control them via the easytouch, which I wasn't thinking would be as easy as it was.

    So do you guys recommend I get a another breaker put in and connect the intelliPH/IC40 to that?
    30k plaster pool
    Pentair 011018 IntelliFlo, Pentair CCP520, IC40 SWG, IntelliPH Acid system
    Easytouch 4 + ScreenLogic2

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    Mod Squad pooldv's Avatar
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    Re: Easytouch + IC + IntelliPH programming - requires two circuits?

    Yes, another 20a breaker to power them all the time.
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    Re: Easytouch + IC + IntelliPH programming - requires two circuits?

    Looks like you are just using it as a fancy switch box.
    What size are your the wires feeding the buss? Did you Wire this yourself? You really need bigger feed wires.
    It looks all wrong. Maybe I'm not able to see it correctly but it looks like you have split a 220 breaker into 2 120 v legs off the relay. Where is the power for the light coming from? You shouldn't be bringer hot wires into a sub panel other than the feeders.
    You should call an electrician.

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    Re: Easytouch + IC + IntelliPH programming - requires two circuits?

    No, I didn't wire it myself the installer did.. All I have that I need to control are the pump, lights, and intelliPH/IC40. The light is actually over by the house and there's a transformer, but he pulled the wires so it could route through the EasyTouch for controlling the colors.

    Should that also be a GFCI breaker in there?

    I'm thinking of going ahead and getting an electrician over to look at it, would your run of the mill electrician understand the ET4 or should I look for a pool guy who's an electrician?
    30k plaster pool
    Pentair 011018 IntelliFlo, Pentair CCP520, IC40 SWG, IntelliPH Acid system
    Easytouch 4 + ScreenLogic2

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    Re: Easytouch + IC + IntelliPH programming - requires two circuits?

    I don't think much of the person who wired this setup. There are some code issues here in addition to the illogical setup.

    The pump should get a new CGFI breaker and be wired directly to this new breaker.

    The IC40-IntelliPH transformer should be wired to the pump relay, fed from the existing breaker.

    The lights, currently on the pump relay, should be moved to AUX1.

    Getting an electrician with pool experience would be a great idea.

    dumbcluck, everything I can see is 240 volts except the lights. I suspect the lights are being switched after the transformer, i.e. at low voltage. The light transformer might be tied to the wire headed to the pump, which is one kind of problem, or feed from outside, which is a different kind of problem. So (minor) trouble either way.
    19K gal, vinyl, 1/2 HP WhisperFlo pump, 200 sqft cartridge filter, AutoPilot Digital SWG, Dolphin Dynamic cleaning robot
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    Re: Easytouch + IC + IntelliPH programming - requires two circuits?

    I think you need a pool electrician. But, there are a lot of pool guys who do not understand pool automation or how to install or how to program it. Pool automation is not that complicated. But, it does require electrical understanding and wiring up the control wires. Then you have to spend some quality time with the manual and the user interface to really dig in and understand how the programming and setup works.

    I agree with dumbcluck that the wires look undersized and it is certainly not wired using the correctly colored wire that an electrician would use.

    If you have an understanding of wiring electricity and you willing to read the manual and the earlier posts you can probably fix it. But, if you are not comfortable with electrical work you should hire an electrician with knowledge of pool automation.
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    Re: Easytouch + IC + IntelliPH programming - requires two circuits?

    It's hard to see on my phone but it looks like one leg of each of the transformers is always hot. The other leg is switched from the relay. That's why I initially thought it was split. Either way it's wrong.
    Having hot wires fed into the subpanel is potentially dangerous as one could believe all wires are dead by turning off subpanel feed. It would be better to add a breaker for the lights in that panel to avoid that.
    Not being able to tell what size the feed is I can only guess it's no larger than #10 which is only rated for 30 amps. If it's 12 then 20 amps and you are already maxed out.
    Sure it may work but it is far from optimal and not code compliant.

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    Re: Easytouch + IC + IntelliPH programming - requires two circuits?

    Thanks everyone. I'm going to find an electrician - I don't skimp when it comes to stuff that could (in an unlikely and rare case) kill someone

    Jason - the lights do get switched by AUX1 which is weird, so maybe those aren't the lights?

    To summarize, this is what I'm telling them, sound about right?

    1. Feed wire possibly too small for code
    2. Add 15A GFCI breaker for salt+intelliph, maybe replace 20A with 20A GFCI?
    3. Rewire salt cell directly to new breaker
    30k plaster pool
    Pentair 011018 IntelliFlo, Pentair CCP520, IC40 SWG, IntelliPH Acid system
    Easytouch 4 + ScreenLogic2

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