Actual SWG vs. Bleach Cost, Eye popping!

[Strannik]

it's titanium plates coated with ruthenium oxide, sometimes iridium

Considering that only a handful of companies in the world have the technology to make the coating, i highly doubt that your local shop happens to be one of them. Also, when the plates are produced they are normally made in big batches, from large sheets, which are then cut to suit the cell. If you try to coat the plates of small size it will be very inefficient and consequently highly expensive.

 

[New2Me]

it's titanium plates coated with ruthenium oxide, sometimes iridium

That's what I thought. Last time I went to buy spark plugs for the car I about choked when it was $12 for each Iridium plug, but then I found that didn't need to buy them after all, :lol: because I had only used 30,000 miles of their rated 125,000!
Strannik, I just noticed that you're located in Australia, where SWG's were invented, and hopefully perfected! Do you have any background info on the developement of the cell technology? Did they start with stainless-steel and move to titanium, and then to coatings?
And does anyone have an explanation for how a cell fails? Do the actual plates corrode away, or just the connections to the plates, or does the distance between them grow too large? If the plates get fouled with deposits, does acid cleaning restore them to like new, or is there a loss of capacity, and if so why?
What is it that wears out on these things? I mean old spark plugs can be cleaned, re-gapped and re-used as long as there is an electrode left.

 

[Guest]

I am trying to get the HOA to allow me to install a windmill farm!

Good luck on this. Considering the noise generated by the blades you will have a hard sell. Then consider the tower considerations, they need to be at least 25-35 feet tall. This will definitely be seen by all.

I guess it depends on your property size too. Considering I am in an association with 5-20 acre lots, it tends to be more relaxed about worrying about what the homeowners are doing.

 

[Guest]

Remember too that production of the liquid chlorine is being done somewhere. The product needs to be shipped to you from there. Chlorine is not eco friendly to begin with and when you add in the transportation (fuel, road wear, spill hazard) it make sense to generate it locally at your pool.

I am all for using the SWG instead. It just makes more sense. Sometimes it is about more than just appearent relative cost at our pockets. Usually the true costs are hidden.

 

[Strannik]

it's titanium plates coated with ruthenium oxide, sometimes iridium

That's what I thought. Last time I went to buy spark plugs for the car I about choked when it was $12 for each Iridium plug, but then I found that didn't need to buy them after all, :lol: because I had only used 30,000 miles of their rated 125,000!
Strannik, I just noticed that you're located in Australia, where SWG's were invented, and hopefully perfected! Do you have any background info on the developement of the cell technology? Did they start with stainless-steel and move to titanium, and then to coatings?
And does anyone have an explanation for how a cell fails? Do the actual plates corrode away, or just the connections to the plates, or does the distance between them grow too large? If the plates get fouled with deposits, does acid cleaning restore them to like new, or is there a loss of capacity, and if so why?
What is it that wears out on these things? I mean old spark plugs can be cleaned, re-gapped and re-used as long as there is an electrode left.

Well... I actually worked for AutoChlor for quite a while, and participated in many R&D projects, including development of anodes. I'm not sure if anyone ever used stainless, because it will corrode in no time (and i'm not sure that coating will actually stick to it). We certainly didn't.

The reason the cell fails is because the coating wears out. Ruthenium acts as a catalyst during electrolysis, and when it's all gone - you don't make much chlorine anymore. Nothing you can do but replace them. The reason your spark plugs keep working is because they are completely made from iridium, but the cell coating isn't.

When the plates foul with deposit you can clean them with acid and they will return to normal. What happens is that calcium reduces conductivity, so your chlorinator has to increase voltage to produce same amount of chlorine. Higher voltage leads to quicker cell death.
So when you notice scale it means it's time for a clean. It's also easier to clean when scale is small, rather than when it's like this :

 

[New2Me]

Now I see the clear advantage of a see-through cell casing! I thought that it was just gimmick to see the bubbles(chlorine) forming. I will definitely check my cell frequently! Luckily for me, I can still use my filter system with my add-on cell off, I feel for the people who paid big money and didn't even get a $0.50 piece of PVC to use in place of the cell!

Ruthenium acts as a catalyst during electrolysis

I'm guessing that Ruthenium(I'll have to google that) is too expensive to make the plates from? I didn't know that a catalyst was involved, I thought that it was just the electric field itself. So does the trace amounts of Ruthenium pose any environmental/health problems? What-ever they are, they must be small compared to what a large chlorine producing plant has!
Thanks for enlightening me!

 

[Strannik]

You'd be surprised how many people have clear housings and yet still don't clean their cells when it's necessary....

Ruthenium doesn't pose a problem, because the concentration would be very small.
I'm not sure that it even leaves the cell, it just might be converted from Ruthenium Chloride into something else.

My chemistry knowledge doesn't span that far

 

[Rabbit]

I've been thinking about purchasing an SWG, if I do I'll get something expensive with a good warranty and an automatic regulator ~$1400. I'm in no hurry to do so however as my Liquidator has been working wonderfully. I just add some 12.5% to it every couple of weeks and good to go. Zero white stuff problems, no leaks, no clogs, no worries. My main reason for getting an SWG will be to automate the process, having an SWG without the monitoring and adjustment systems for me would be kind of pointless. The Arizona sun tends to bake off chlorine pretty fast at times and as soon as the clouds come in from monsoon season all bets are off. My number one problem with the LQ is the inability of the unit to adjust with changes in weather. Hardly a fault of the unit itself, an inexpensive non monitored SWG would have the same problems.

Interesting post none the less. Kind of opens my eyes a bit more to the costs involved long term. I still use some 3" pucks any time I want to increase my CYA levels I still have a surplus of them.

 

[Poolsean]

AutoPilot's systems (Soft Touch, ST-220, or Digital, DIG-220) have Automatic Temperature Compensation, that adjusts the chlorine production rate based on water temperature changes. That IS our basic model.

A step up takes you to the Pool Pilot 75003 Digital, with an option to incorporate a manually controlled acid feeder.
You can also do this with anyone's salt chlorine generator with a separate component chemical feed pump for the acid.

Above that, AutoPilot and Hayward offer total automation that incorporates ORP and pH control. AutoPilot's standard system uses Muriatic Acid to control the pH. Hayward uses CO2, but with an option to use Muriatic acid.

 

[New2Me]

I still use some 3" pucks any time I want to increase my CYA levels I still have a surplus of them.

Same here! I'm going to leave my Hayward autopuck feeder in to do that, and for vacations, and also 'cause if I pull it I'll have two holes in my piping! (easy enough to cover with rubber and existing clamps, I guess.) I plan on following Piku's post on making a cheap pool control system this winter to automate my system for next year. I plan to gut the SWG control system and control it with an astral planner that will automatically adjust the SWG run time as the amount of sunshine changes through the season, and split it into multiple run periods during the day. Then again, I may just see if this thing will make it through a full season first! Keep forgetting about that KISS thing!