Become a TFP Supporter Pool Math Forum Rules Pool School
Results 1 to 18 of 18

Thread: Pool Heater

  1. Back To Top    #1

    Join Date
    Sep 2014
    Location
    San Diego
    Posts
    21

    Pool Heater

    I have an inground pool (23,000 gallons) and just purchased a heater for it (Hayward Universal H-Series Low NOx Induced Draft Pool & Spa Heater | 200,000 BTU | Natural Gas | H200FDN). I have a couple of questions I am hoping someone can help me with. I can't find anything stating where the heater needs to be located within the system (i.e. before the filter or after --- before the pump or after). In my system, I only have a pump and DE filter. I assume it would go between the filter and the return line, but wanted to make sure. Also, I am open to any suggestions, wisdom, or any other information you might have to help the installation or use of this product. Thank you...

    Brian

  2. Back To Top    #2

    In the Industry

    ps0303's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2011
    Location
    FL
    Posts
    3,435

    Re: Pool Heater

    I thought for sure in the manual there were illustrations for this. Anyway, it goes after the filter and before any chlorinator or salt chlorinator system you may have. 200K BTU is kind of small for the pool you have.
    Paul
    http://www.gastekservices.com A word of caution: When working with gas and electrical you might want to consider a licensed contractor. Consider the value of your life and others around you. If you would like to provide a review of the help I provided, please use the following link to leave a review. gastek - Google Search,

  3. Back To Top    #3

    TFP Guide

    Kiss4aFrog's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2013
    Location
    Hudson, WI
    Posts
    2,602

    Re: Pool Heater

    If the heater doesn't have a bypass you might want to consider adding valving to allow it for service or in case it develops a leak. That way no matter how long it's down you still have circulation and filtration.

    Do you use a solar cover ??
    '70s IG Vinyl 32K gal, Lazy L, Hayward SuperPump 1.5hp 120V, S240 Sand Filter W/DE
    Solar Blanket, Well Water, Borax Added, TF-100 tester. ? too cold
    1979, 275gal Conway Emerald Spa P-100-2, ES-2 Spa Pack, bromine floater, indoor
    TF-100, Best test kit - TFTestkits.net
    Please help keep the lights on, become a TFP Supporter!

  4. Back To Top    #4

    In the Industry

    ps0303's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2011
    Location
    FL
    Posts
    3,435

    Re: Pool Heater

    The heater does have an internal bypass but it's only for controlling flow into the unit. Yes if you want to be able to cut all flow to the unit put still have the system running, you would need to build a bypass into your piping. You would need two valves, either ball valves or the Jandy never lube, a couple of PVC T's, and a check valve, I prefer the Rainbow check valves that come with unions. This was if the and when the check valve stops working, it does happen, you can easily replace it. You are going build basically an H.

    Here is a crude drawing of how to build one.
    Attached Images Attached Images
    Paul
    http://www.gastekservices.com A word of caution: When working with gas and electrical you might want to consider a licensed contractor. Consider the value of your life and others around you. If you would like to provide a review of the help I provided, please use the following link to leave a review. gastek - Google Search,

  5. Back To Top    #5

    Join Date
    Sep 2014
    Location
    San Diego
    Posts
    21

    Re: Pool Heater

    Thank you for your response. The heater is being delivered tomorrow, so I hadn't seen the manual. I was just trying to figure out where I was going to put the unit. I did just go online and found a manual and a youtube video of the installation. Why do you think 200K BTU is small for my pool? I live in Southern California and before purchasing the heater online, 35'x15' = 525' (surface area) x 6' (average depth) x 7.48 (gallons in a cubic foot) = 23,562 gallons of H2O in my pool. A gallon of water weighs 8.33 lbs. So, 23,562 gallons x 8.33 = 196271 (pounds of water in my pool). 1 BTU is required to raise 1 pound of water by 1 degree F. So it would take 8178 BTUs to heat my pool 1 degree F, in a day. The coldest my pool gets is about 55 F. And, if I wanted the pool to be 80 degrees (in the coldest part of the winter), that is a 25 degree rise. So, 8178 x 25 = 204,450 BTU required. I'm actually not going to use the heater in January and February, so i figured the most I would need was a 20 F rise. That would require 163,560 BTU (so I got the 200K BTU unit).. I hope I figured that out correctly.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Thank you Kiss4afrog and Paul. I hadn't thought of a bypass, but that is an excellent suggestion. I will definitely be adding that.

  6. Back To Top    #6

    TFP Guide

    Kiss4aFrog's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2013
    Location
    Hudson, WI
    Posts
    2,602

    Re: Pool Heater

    The thing about a heater is the BTU rating is the burner and that needs to be corrected by the units efficiency which on most heaters averages about 80% (yours 84%). That leaves your heater at approximately 168K BTU when it's new and under best conditions. So it's pretty much maxed out with what you are asking it to do with no room for colder than normal weather, higher desired water temps, performance degradation from age or variables with installation.
    So it will likely work out OK but there are conditions it might not be able to give you all the comfort you want. I'm in WI without a heater so anything in the upper seventies is a warm day for me
    '70s IG Vinyl 32K gal, Lazy L, Hayward SuperPump 1.5hp 120V, S240 Sand Filter W/DE
    Solar Blanket, Well Water, Borax Added, TF-100 tester. ? too cold
    1979, 275gal Conway Emerald Spa P-100-2, ES-2 Spa Pack, bromine floater, indoor
    TF-100, Best test kit - TFTestkits.net
    Please help keep the lights on, become a TFP Supporter!

  7. Back To Top    #7

    In the Industry

    ps0303's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2011
    Location
    FL
    Posts
    3,435

    Re: Pool Heater

    I guess if you are going to keep the unit on all the time in cooler temps and don't require quick heat up times, like the occasional weekend swim thing, the heater will work. I never recommend anything smaller than a 250K/266K for your size pool. I prefer to size the unit so it's not working a long time to heat. Now for a spa, yes I would.
    Paul
    http://www.gastekservices.com A word of caution: When working with gas and electrical you might want to consider a licensed contractor. Consider the value of your life and others around you. If you would like to provide a review of the help I provided, please use the following link to leave a review. gastek - Google Search,

  8. Back To Top    #8

    Join Date
    Jun 2013
    Location
    Erie pa
    Posts
    68

    Re: Pool Heater

    Using a solar blanket will help with any heat loss
    16x32 vinyl ig with foxguard steel walls,gli liner ,hayward de filter,hayward heatpro heat pump,hayward colorlogic 4.0 led.pentair circular weir skimmers.hayward sharkvac xl robot,gli mesh cover.polk atrium speakers,sonos music system.erie pa.

  9. Back To Top    #9

    Join Date
    Sep 2014
    Location
    San Diego
    Posts
    21

    Re: Pool Heater

    I am getting ready to install my 200,000 BTU heater and had a question on the regulator(s) I need to use. I have a natural gas line that goes right next to where the heater will be. It is 1/2" wrapped iron pipe. Since it is 1/2" pipe, from reading the manual, it looks like I need to go with "Natural Gas Pipe Sizing, High-Pressure, 2-Stage Regulation". I'm not exactly sure what that means though. Can I just use a 2 stage regulator, or do I need 2 individual regulators? I would think I could use a 2-stage regulator, but the manual shows different distances from the first to the second regulator. Very confusing. Here is a picture of the chart that is in the manual. Can someone let me know what I need to do for regulators and if you have any recommendations or advice, I would appreciate it. heater21.jpg

  10. Back To Top    #10

    In the Industry

    ps0303's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2011
    Location
    FL
    Posts
    3,435

    Re: Pool Heater

    You need to look at your meter on your house to determine if you need regulator. If not sure, call you gas provider and ask them if your meter is high pressure or not.
    Paul
    http://www.gastekservices.com A word of caution: When working with gas and electrical you might want to consider a licensed contractor. Consider the value of your life and others around you. If you would like to provide a review of the help I provided, please use the following link to leave a review. gastek - Google Search,

  11. Back To Top    #11

    Join Date
    Apr 2014
    Location
    Elk Grove Village, IL
    Posts
    12

    Re: Pool Heater

    I have the 250k BTU version of that same heater, and it heated up my 30k gallon pool from 50 degrees to 80 degrees in about a day and some change... pretty much 1 degree per hour. And yes, the heater is installed after the filter before hitting your return lines.
    30,000 Gallon IG concrete pool with fiberglass walls, 1HP Hayward pump, Hayward Sand Filter, Hayward 250K BTU Natural Gas Heater

  12. Back To Top    #12

    Join Date
    Sep 2014
    Location
    San Diego
    Posts
    21

    Re: Pool Heater

    Thank you both for your responses.

    ps0303, I was thinking that the 2 regulators were what could make it "high pressure". But it looks like you are saying that it would need to be "high pressure" at the meter, in order for me to use the chart I pasted. I will call the gas company tomorrow, but wanted to make sure I understood what you were saying. For the low pressure setup, it shows I would need 1" to 1 1/4" pipe. That isn't good since I only have the 1/2 pipe feeding out to the area where the heater will be sitting. Any suggestions?

    EGVpoolDude, do you know what size of pipe is feeding from your meter to the heater? Are you using a regulator? Appreciate any other info you have on yours since it is the same version of heater.

  13. Back To Top    #13

    In the Industry

    ps0303's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2011
    Location
    FL
    Posts
    3,435

    Re: Pool Heater

    Depending on the gas company, you could have high pressure coming from the street to the meter. After the meter is where you would have a regulator to lower the pressure going in to the house. Then depending on how the heater is hooked up, you may or may not need another regulator at the heater. Sometimes the line for the heater is tapped off of the meter between the meter and the house regulator. In that case you would need that second regulator by the heater.
    Paul
    http://www.gastekservices.com A word of caution: When working with gas and electrical you might want to consider a licensed contractor. Consider the value of your life and others around you. If you would like to provide a review of the help I provided, please use the following link to leave a review. gastek - Google Search,

  14. Back To Top    #14

    Join Date
    Sep 2014
    Location
    San Diego
    Posts
    21

    Re: Pool Heater

    ps0303, I can see that the line for the heater was tapped off of the house's hot water heater. So, it would be after the house regulator. But, the heater's manual shows that I would need 1" pipe for low pressure, single stage regulation. And, the pipe that is out by the pool heater, is only 1/2" pipe. I don't know if I can somehow use 2 regulators to make it a "high pressure" system, or if that isn't even possible. If not, I am wondering if the 1/2" pipe won't be large enough for the heater.
    Thank you for you help.

  15. Back To Top    #15
    n240sxguy's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2014
    Location
    Benton, KY
    Posts
    1,800

    Re: Pool Heater

    Regulators only lower pressure. They don't raise it. Call the gas company. They may be able to run your 1/2" line before the regulator to get enough gas to the heater. The two worst case scenarios are having to use a smaller heater, or having a larger gas line run in place of the 1/2" line if there's not enough pressure to deliver the volume of gas you need through your 1/2" line.


    30K gallon IG vinyl. 1.5HP 2-speed Waterway Mustang pump. 600 lb sand filter. Polaris 280. Circupool SI-60+. TF-100

  16. Back To Top    #16

    Join Date
    Sep 2014
    Location
    San Diego
    Posts
    21

    Re: Pool Heater

    Thanks for the info n240. So you are saying that there is a possibility that the gas company might allow me to tap in to the gas before the regulator? So, can I assume that the gas is high pressure until it gets to my regulator? And then it is low pressure after the regulator? I know I shouldn't assume anything with gas, but I am just wanting as much info as possible so I make sure I ask the right questions (and sound like I kind of know what I am talking about). Thank you.

  17. Back To Top    #17
    n240sxguy's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2014
    Location
    Benton, KY
    Posts
    1,800

    Re: Pool Heater

    Quote Originally Posted by KSUBrian View Post
    Thanks for the info n240. So you are saying that there is a possibility that the gas company might allow me to tap in to the gas before the regulator? So, can I assume that the gas is high pressure until it gets to my regulator? And then it is low pressure after the regulator? I know I shouldn't assume anything with gas, but I am just wanting as much info as possible so I make sure I ask the right questions (and sound like I kind of know what I am talking about). Thank you.
    It is my understanding that that is how they typically do it. I think I read that the main line coming in usually has 2psi. Usually reduced to around 3/4psi by the regulator. If I did the conversion right, mine is about 1/4psi coming into my house. I just went out and looked at it. I don't have a pool heater. Just several gas appliances.


    30K gallon IG vinyl. 1.5HP 2-speed Waterway Mustang pump. 600 lb sand filter. Polaris 280. Circupool SI-60+. TF-100

  18. Back To Top    #18

    Join Date
    May 2015
    Location
    Charlotte/NC
    Posts
    3

    Re: Pool Heater

    The bypass valves mentioned are a good idea, not only if your heater develops leaks, but you will want to bypass your heater when SLAMing (shocking) you pool. Heater manufacturers are picky about pool water chemistry, and some state that heater core damage will occur if their guidelines are not followed. Guidelines for chlorine levels typically require they be held below 5ppm for pools and 10ppm for spas. When I adjust my water chemistry, I always bypass my pool heater.

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •