leaks after replacing spider gasket

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C

cardano

0
Feb 4, 2014
51
Phoenix, AZ
High PSI - with filter removed ?

Hi There.
I've only been here long enough to know to post a complete set of test results proactively - and they are below.
However, because this question seems to be more of a mechanical issue, I put them at the end.

I am opening my pool for the year and noted that the DE filter was posting 25PSI readings, so I stopped my SLAM and figured I needed to clean the filter. I did that last year and it worked great, so I was surprised that it needed it again so soon, but that's life right. Rinsed the filter and even before I added the DE back, it ran up to 25PSI again.
Figured I had calcified the filter what with all the water hardness we have around here - so I did the soap soak and then acid soak of the filter and put it all back together.
Still ran up to 25PSI within an hour.
So now I am thinking it's likely to not be just a filter issue - so I removed the filter from the equation and the PSI only dropped to 15PSI - which seems kinda high - but I dont actually where the problem is.

Any ideas on what is wrong ?

Bottom of pool intake clog ?
Clog in pipe somewhere ?
any way to figure out where ?

Thanks - Cardano

Other information :
  1. After cleaning the filters last year and before I put the DE in I was reading something like 5 PSI with clean Filter but no DE
  2. I made sure that the 'just before the pump' basket was empty as well as the skimmer basket.
  3. There is a bottom of the pool intake and it has some stuff on it - but my understanding of the piping of this leads me to believe that the skimmer basket is paralleled with the bottom intake so that any clogging of the bottom intake should have minimal clogging effect
  4. I have 6 discharge ports ( 2 Valves with 3 ports each ) and a booster discharge into the pool ( separate valve - broken in open position ) as well as 2 Waterfall features ( which are also discharges ) - so I had a few valves to play with and see it's effect on the PSI gauage.
  5. WaterFalls closed - all other ports open - 15PSI
  6. Waterfalls open - all ports open - 10PSI
  7. Waterfalls open - 6 ports closed - booster discharge open ( broke open )- 12PSI
  8. Gauge appears to be the one that came with the Hayward 4820 and has two internal marks - one at 15PSI and one at 25PSI which I have been taking to mean - clean DE filter should read 15PSI - clogged DE Filter in need of cleaning should read 25PSI - but I could be making that up.

Water readings - cause I had thought the CH would be insane ( Phoenix water is harder than all but diamonds ) - and the filter was just calcified but I'm still getting 15PSI with no filter in the system so that cant be all the trouble.
  • FC : 3.5 ( Aborted start of slam due to not happy filter )
  • CC : 0.5 ( it's possible something is living in there, but since SLAM involves near continuous filter operation and the filter not happy - this can wait on fixin the filtration )
  • PH : 7.2 ( totally happy )
  • CH : 600 ( High but not insane - I get 500+ from the city and near zero from the whole house water softener )
  • TA : 60 ( almost as happy as the PH )
  • CYA : 72 ( up from 60 last year which is kinda annoying since 60 was hard enough to keep managed so a partial refill is likely in my cards - and Softened water will also bring down the CH, but aint nothing gonna get better without a working filter - in other news living in the Sun's Anvil makes me think that overall a higher CYA isnt too bad but this will need some attention later )
 
Re: High PSI - with filter removed ?

at 15PSI with no filter - the flow seemed fine - didnt specifically try the flow with the filter in to be sure 25psi was restricted - however -
It seemed like the pump was working at 'normal strain' at 15psi and at 'elevated strain' at 25psi - so I'm only slightly skeptical of faulty gauge being the problem.
I can either swing by the local HD and get a gauge there or get the TFTkits one - is there a reason that the TFTkits one is worth the waiting and not being able to make progress this weekend?
Thanks for the quick reply.
Cardano.
 
Re: High PSI - with filter removed ?

The gauges TFTestKits.net sells are quality gauges that are oil filled. That means they will last a lot longer. The typical pool gauge is basically disposable and rarely lasts all that long.
 
Re: High PSI - with filter removed ?

I would suspect the gauge probably as well. The cheaper gauges are certainly OK to get you back up and running but they have longevity issues.
Bottom of pool intake clog ?
Click to expand...
No. If there is a problem it will not be on the suction side of your system......it will be on the pressure side.
 
Re: High PSI - with filter removed ? *UPDATE*

Update : new gauge in place - reading basically the same as old gauge - nice big display though so it's all good. Cause of actual high pressure still not discovered.

New problem : in refilling the DE to the clean filter, it appears that a LOT of DE discharged from the returns into the pool.
To my mind that could be one of two things :
  1. Rip in Filter to allow massive DE through filter cloth
  2. Significant problem with Multi-Port Valve

  1. Opened the Filter to look for rips - did not see any - lots of DE nicely clogged onto filter fabric with a couple of places where there was no DE, but no tears or rips noted. Not thinking this is likely.
  2. Tried a couple different positions on the valve thinking if there was a significant problem in the internals of the valve I would be able to diagnose that by seeing discharge water on recirc or filter settings. no discharge except on waste and backwash settings. filter setting has high PSI reading, but recric has no flow to either waste or filter ( i did actually turn on the pump while the filter was open and Valve set to recirc - cause I was feeling daring )

so ?
New Multiport ? new Filter grids ?
about ready to buy both just to get the pool open in time for a party in 10 days.

  1. Filter grids are old but seem fine - lots of nice caked on DE covering almost every square inch of grid material at this point.
  2. Valve looks ancient but I cant read a date code on it if there is one ( Hayward SP710XR50 ).

and as a secondary question - is it possible to just gut the multi-port valve and not have to repipe ? or should I bite the bullet and repipe the whole thing ? I know enough about PVC plumbing to know that will be a serious days work full of swearing and possibly kicking things before it's all back in place and operational. [ seems like there are

As always - thank you all for your wisdom and experience.
Cardano.
 
Re: High PSI - with filter removed ?

Any chance the valve on the multi-port was put on incorrectly and you are not getting the settings you think you are? I would open it up and see if something is clogged or broken in it.
 
Re: High PSI - with filter removed ?

Will tear it open tonight - thanks.
I assume I should be ready with a spider gasket since leaking between settings is potentially what I am seeing ? it looks like I can order one same day from amazon for $10 which is well worth the effort and probably $20 less than the local pool supply store will charge me. wow.

I also read up last night on the valve and learned that my back and forth from backwash to filter was the wrong thing to do - apparrently I should have always been going in the same direction ( e.g. always clockwise )
bummer.
will update tonight.
thanks,
Cardano.
 

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Re: High PSI - with filter removed ?

Or I can tear it open right now - cause I'm impatient.
bad gasket.jpg
Outer O ring seemed fine.
Two sections of the Spider Gasket were flat as a pancake ( the two on either side of the big opening ) also - dry as a bone.
So new Spider Gasket on order and we'll see if that fixes her.
Lots more images if you want to look :
https://plus.google.com/photos/1006...ms/6125358428711404609?authkey=CJDX-b2CuLiIGQ
Thanks
Cardano
 
Re: High PSI - with filter removed ?

err -
if I said 'zero flow on recirc' I was mistaken - I had fine flow on recirc. Actually seemed like good flow in all modes -
and no experienced leakage to waste - although it's possible that the (2) bad sections of gasket are not in any way connected to waste.
hard to tell if there was leakage from filter-input to pool-jets - but that would explain the 'pouring DE into skimmer - getting DE out jets'
Cardano
 
Re: High PSI - with filter removed ?

Ah, yeah, I think I read that wrong about the recirc. The flat spider gasket could certainly have allowed some of the DE to bypass the filter. Seems like a good place to start.
 
So the de leaking to return got us thinking the spider gasket needed replacing on my Hayward SP0710XR50 multi-port valve, and now that it's replaced I appear to have a very small leak which started out a little stronger ( actual drips - maybe 2 a minute ) but now appears to have reduced quite a bit.
there is water welled up around the 6 divots where the handle seats - appearing about halfway full - and there was a drip to the inlet side almost completely stopped within a couple minutes.

I can replace the O Ring ( it looked ok - might just not be seated well - just as easy to replace it ) but is there a second or more gasket for the central handle parts?
i did not see any little central O ring on the underside of the handle but it was all pretty hard to get to inside the plastic valve part.
Thanks,
Cardano
 
Beside the O ring possibly failing, sometimes there is dirt in there. My valve is out in the open and when I disassembled it the shaft was partially seized from grit between the cover and the shaft coming through it.
After fully cleaning all the parts and lubing it up with silicone plumbers lube the thing doesn't leak and turns smoother than I ever remember it working.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RDlCSDKx-E4
 

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I used plenty of magic lube - but since the O ring was ancient and the entire valve top assembly was just as ancient and difficult to turn - I went ahead and gave Amazon some of my hard earned money.
Same day delivery on Sunday - free with Prime - 5 hours from order to installation - and all is well now.
Pressure is down to 18psi - had been up to almost 25 psi with the old valve - so it helped with that problem as well.
I also splurged and ordered a new set of filters too - which will arrive Wednesday - they also looked very old and I would like to get the pool to a happy place.
so hopefully I will just be back to half a gallon of bleach each morning with coffee for the next 9 months.
Thanks for all the help
Cardano
 
You da man, Cardano :goodjob:

Cup o joe in one hand and my test kit in the other. The only way to start the morning. At least it will be once my water melts :brickwall: I need to move south.
 

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