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Thread: Newbie with TFP - Test results

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    Newbie with TFP - Test results

    Received my TFT-100 yesterday. Been relying on store tests until today. I live in Dallas so we've had a lot of rain yesterday and my salt cell have been off. I have family coming to visit at the end of the month and I need to get the pool ready.

    Here are my numbers:
    CH - 475
    TC - 1
    TA - 90
    CYA - 20

    Ph was showing 8.2. I added about half a gallon of acid waited about 20 mins while brushing the sides and bottom and tested again on the opposite side of the pool. Ph measured 6.8. Not sure if I didn't wait long enough to test or I added too much acid.

    Please help me get TFP balanced!

    Thanks,
    Ben


    ~10-12K gallons, IG, Cartridge, Saltwater, gunite, attached spa.

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    Patrick_B's Avatar
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    Re: Newbie with TFP - Test results

    Hi Ben, and welcome to TFP if I haven't said so.

    Have you read up in pool school, starting with the ABC's and suggested levels?

    Please break your Chlorine out in FC and CC using the FAS DPD test. Was that one with the yellow on the pH block?

    pH needs to be below 7.8, Cya needs to come up quite a lot for a SWG.

    How does the water look right now?
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    Newbie with TFP - Test results

    I did the FAS DPD test. FC was 1 and CC 0. Sorry. Assumed I could just post the one... Lesson learned

    Water looks ok. Not great perhaps a very slight green tint.

    Do you think I added too much acid or just test too soon after adding? I'm a bit concerned it dropped so low.

    It looks like my Calcium is too high. Should I try to get it lower or leave it?

    The pool store told me not to worry about CYA (don't hurt me) because it's too cold and the sun is not high enough.

    I turned the salt cell on. Has been off because it's been so cold here. Water temp reading 56.

    ~10-12K gallons, IG, Cartridge, Saltwater, gunite, attached spa.

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    Smykowski's Avatar
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    Re: Newbie with TFP - Test results

    You probably added too much acid. I'll echo Patrick and suggest spending some time in Pool School.

    How did you determine how much acid to add?
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    Re: Newbie with TFP - Test results

    I appreciate the pool school references. I can assure you I've read them a few times. Most of what I got from them are the recommended levels.

    I suppose since I'm new and no longer taking the advise of the local pool store I'm look g for advice on how to get started from where I'm at. Do I need to adjust one thing before the next?

    I dosed acid based on previous suggestions from the store....


    ~10-12K gallons, IG, Cartridge, Saltwater, gunite, attached spa.

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    Mod Squad jblizzle's Avatar
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    Re: Newbie with TFP - Test results

    CH is fine for now.
    No point in turning the SWG on as the water is too cold.
    Your CYA is too low, I would raise it to about 30-40ppm now and then follow the ShockLevelAndMAINTAIN Process. Once the water warms up, raise the CYA to the recommended levels for a SWG and dial in the SWG.
    Stay out of the pool store
    Use PoolMath to calculate dosages.
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    Re: Newbie with TFP - Test results

    I don't recall... Do you guys have a source for CYA or do I still get that from the pool store?

    Thanks again!


    ~10-12K gallons, IG, Cartridge, Saltwater, gunite, attached spa.

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    Re: Newbie with TFP - Test results

    Part of the problem is that you don't know the exact size of your pool. Whatever volume you used to calculate the acid dose was too high. Lower it a thousand gallons next time and see if you undershoot or overshoot and keep repeating. You'll soon figure out what your volume is. If you study poolmath, you'll even be able to see The Effects of Adding Chemicals down at the bottom. That can help doublecheck things. Also note, you do need to know the TA when calculating pH adjustments.

    6.8 isn't too bad. You won't damage anything and it will rise naturally in a few days anyway.

    I would manually dose it with bleach to about 10, do your mixing, and retest it after the sun goes down. Do the overnight loss test. If you pass, great. If not, you have a day's head start on the SLAM process. Once the water's looking clear, then raise the CYA and fire off the SWG.

    If you drain and refill to lower CH, you'll also lose CYA and salt. 475 is easily managed. I'd leave that for now and concentrate on just getting the water sparkling.
    16K freeform gunite with spa; Pentair 4000 DE filter; Century Whisperflow 1 HP; Pentair Minimax heater.
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    Re: Newbie with TFP - Test results

    Quote Originally Posted by bdare View Post
    I don't recall... Do you guys have a source for CYA or do I still get that from the pool store?
    No alternative source for that. This is one of the few chemicals you have to get from a pool store or big-box store. Cyanuric Acid aka stabilizer or conditioner.
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    Re: Newbie with TFP - Test results

    I understand TA effects Ph, but how is it relevant when testing?


    ~10-12K gallons, IG, Cartridge, Saltwater, gunite, attached spa.

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    Re: Newbie with TFP - Test results

    Higher TA resists changes to pH from external sources, but it doesn't affect testing. The only place TA affects the result of other tests is in the acid/base demand tests, but those are ones you normally don't use (they aren't in the TFTestkits TF-100, but are in the Taylor K-2006).
    16,000 gallon outdoor in-ground 16'x32' plaster pool; Pentair Intelliflo VF pump; Pentair IntelliTouch i9+3s control system; Jandy CL-340 square foot cartridge filter
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    Re: Newbie with TFP - Test results

    Quote Originally Posted by bdare View Post
    I understand TA effects Ph, but how is it relevant when testing?


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
    Poolmath needs to know TA when calculating acid doses for you.
    16K freeform gunite with spa; Pentair 4000 DE filter; Century Whisperflow 1 HP; Pentair Minimax heater.
    Troublefree does not mean Maintenancefree. It's like brushing your teeth: You can spend a couple minutes a day and pennies a week or go to the dentist once a year and spend several thousand dollars.
    A pool is like a pet - you have to feed it every day, even the days you don't want to play with it!

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    Re: Newbie with TFP - Test results

    Quote Originally Posted by bdare View Post
    I understand TA effects Ph, but how is it relevant when testing?


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
    Generally speaking, the higher the TA, the more resistant pH is to movement, so you would need more acid to lower pH by a given value. If your TA is low, your pH is more susceptible to wild swings. This is a simplification, but should help illustrate the concept.

    Does that help?
    33' round, 23,000 gal AG vinyl , 1HP 2spd PowerFlo Matrix downsized with 3/4HP impeller (X2), Hayward S180T 150# sand filter (X2), Hayward H250 NG heater Pool Store year 1 - $850 for 2 months; Pool Store year 2 - $440 for 2 months, TFPC year 1 - $170 for 4 months; TFPC year 2 - $95 for 4.5 months
    The most important article on this site - The ABCs of Pool Water Chemistry

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    Re: Newbie with TFP - Test results

    Quote Originally Posted by Smykowski View Post
    Generally speaking, the higher the TA, the more resistant pH is to movement, so you would need more acid to lower pH by a given value. If your TA is low, your pH is more susceptible to wild swings. This is a simplification, but should help illustrate the concept.

    Does that help?
    Yes. I've got that part down pat was well as how airation effects ph etc. I've kept salt water reef tanks for over 10 years and managing alk and ph are crucial for the inhabitants and coral health.

    I was more confused on how alk could effect the outcome of a test. In my mind It is what it is at the time of the test.


    ~10-12K gallons, IG, Cartridge, Saltwater, gunite, attached spa.

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    Mod Squad jblizzle's Avatar
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    Re: Newbie with TFP - Test results

    The TA does not affect any test besides the pH (and the demand tests like chem geek mentioned).
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    Re: Newbie with TFP - Test results

    If you can keep reefs alive, you can do this. Still, if most of what you are getting from pool school are suggested levels, you're missing the boat. It is MOST important to understand the Cya/Free chlorine relationship. It is by far the most common problem people have and bring here. Not understanding that. I would SLAM it now, and get that done. Once you complete that, you can work down the other items. This is really easy once you get the fundamentals.

    Lastly, TA is important for pools, but it is more important to focus on, and keep up with pH first. Another common problem people have is getting distracted with TA. It is important, but not critical as it is in a reef tank.
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    Re: Newbie with TFP - Test results

    Thanks everyone for all the useful information. Working on a SLAM plan. Figured the first step was to add stabilizer so I just added 4lbs of dry in pantyhose to my skimmer baskets.

    Ph has gone up to 7.2.
    TC holding tough at 1.

    I also bought 2 gallons of bleach to add once CYA comes up.


    ~10-12K gallons, IG, Cartridge, Saltwater, gunite, attached spa.

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    Re: Newbie with TFP - Test results

    Quote Originally Posted by Patrick_B View Post
    Lastly, TA is important for pools, but it is more important to focus on, and keep up with pH first. Another common problem people have is getting distracted with TA. It is important, but not critical as it is in a reef tank.
    Since TA has such a big influence on pH wouldn't the first step be to get TA right? Seems it would be easier to manage pH once TA is correct.
    ~10-12K gallons, IG, Cartridge, Saltwater, gunite, attached spa.

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    Mod Squad jblizzle's Avatar
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    Re: Newbie with TFP - Test results

    If the TA is at ALL reasonable, then just keep the pH in line. If the TA is high, the act of keeping the pH down will lower the TA.

    The only time you may want to adjust the TA first is if it was much too low (< 50ppm).
    Jason, TFP Moderator
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    Re: Newbie with TFP - Test results

    You said your TA was 90. According to pool math that should be fine (70-90+ recommended)
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