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Thread: Arizona Pool SWCG Selection and Installation Questions

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    bluesmoke's Avatar
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    Arizona Pool SWCG Selection and Installation Questions

    Hi everyone, I'm hoping you can answer a few questions and double check my plans for a SWCG and installation.

    Background: I'm near Phx, AZ so it's sunny 365ish days a year and our water has high calcium content. The pool has been relatively trouble free with bleach and acid so far (only been in this house/maintaining this pool for a year). As is typical, the pH trends upward, but is handled with ~1-2 gallons of acid a month. I've recently added Borates and I'm going to try a TA of 60 to combat the rise and lower acid use. First off, if anyone sees a reason why I shouldn't go with a SWCG let me know, that is why I posted here, to see if I missed anything. The reason for purchasing a SWCG system is to lessen the daily chore of adding bleach, also in the long run to break even in cost, all the while reducing chances for me to mess up and have to SLAM.

    I am leaning towards a Hayward Aquarite T-15 (40K) and buying the control unit package and cell seperately to lower the cost. My pump run time is about 2hrs in winter and 4-6hrs in summer. I might be ok with a longer run time due to wind and a neighbor's messy tree. So, is that a good model for this usage?

    I researched previous threads and reviews on SWCGs for common failures and costs. While the Hayward is more expensive up front, aftermarket parts are cheap and plentiful including cells and it seems to be reliable. I can solder and while I write software, electronics don't scare me (thermistor/inrush limiter failures). But, if there is a brand I missed let me know. I do see I can get a Si-45+ from Circupool for the same price (with the upgrade deal), but past failures threads kind of worry me.


    Second, question, I have two decorative rocks (Click for Pool Photo) do I need to seal those?


    Finally, the installation. As is somewhat typical, I was left no room for pipe modifications (see picture1 and picture2). I'm good with pvc and plumbing so that isn't a concern. The problem is I need at least 12" and I'm not sure how much more (length of T-15 with flow sensor) I will need in the end. I only have 8" in the portion that is vertical. So, what I'm thinking of doing is cutting in that straight vertical portion adding a union and T and then going up to a 90 then salt cell then 90 down to floor cleaners. I would then dead end that whole line of seldom used items. I embedded an admittedly bad picture. I'm thinking the hardest part will be at the End cap and the Tee fitting. I will likely have to shave out the old pipe in the fittings to put a plug and piece of pipe in respectively. I've done it before in 2" 60+ psi applications, but only because I had to.


    I welcome any and all suggestions.


    10-15K gal IG Pebbletec (Pool), Shasta/Pentair Triton TR-100 Sand filter, Pentair Ultraflow Single Speed Pump, Hayward Aquarite AQR15 Chlorine Generator, A&A QuickClean Floor Pop-Ups (Plumbing Picture), UltraPure Oxidizer [removed]

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    Divin Dave's Avatar
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    Re: Arizona Pool SWCG Selection and Installation Questions

    Hi,
    The Hayward system is a great one and the T15 cell is the right size for our pool.
    You dont need to seal the rocks, I think they will be fine. The errosion of stone scenario is more for travertine, flagstone and such.

    I think your plumbing scheme might work, but Im probably not the best source of info on this type of stuff. Im sure someone else will come along and chime in though.
    Divin Dave,
    IG Vinyl, 15' x 30', 3 1/2' - 6' deep, Oval, ~15K gal, Intelliclor IC40, Intelliflo VS pump, Clean and Clear 420 Filter, auto-fill-disabled, Retrofit LED Color Light, Dolphin Nautilus Robot, TF100 Test Kit, Taylor K1766 Salt Test Kit, Tftestkit Pressure Gauge.
    www.tftestkits.net Experience- it's what's learned just after you needed it most !!

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    JasonLion's Avatar
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    Re: Arizona Pool SWCG Selection and Installation Questions

    Your plumbing approach is fine if you can get it to work. It looks like there are two or three spots where there isn't enough pipe to glue to, so you are going to have to shave out the old pipe; as you said. With care that should work out, but it doesn't work every time.
    19K gal, vinyl, 1/2 HP WhisperFlo pump, 200 sqft cartridge filter, AutoPilot Digital SWG, Dolphin Dynamic cleaning robot
    Creator of PoolMath and Pool Calculator. Other handy links: Support this site, TF Test Kits, Pool School

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    bobodaclown's Avatar
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    Re: Arizona Pool SWCG Selection and Installation Questions

    Instead of sharp 90s you could use sweep 90s. Could you post a picture of the pool pad area. Might see some other space to recommend.
    17K Kidney Shaped Pool Concrete (Diamond Bright) Pool, 3/4 hp 2 speed 115V Sta-rite Duraglas PEA5D-180L/P2R5D-181L (Impeller C105-92PS Diffuser C1-216P), 1.5 piping, Pentair CC100 Filter , Heat Siphon 100K BTU Heat Pump Pool Heater, Flow meter Blue White Flowmeter Model No. F-30150P, Hayward Astrolight SP0581N, SWCG CalimarTitanium Edition TE45 , Dolphin Nautilus Plus with CleverClean, Lakeland Florida

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    bluesmoke's Avatar
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    Unhappy Re: Arizona Pool SWCG Selection and Installation Questions

    Thanks for the replies. I definately don't want to shave inside or outside of fittings if I don't have to. For the sweep 90s, I learned something new, I didn't know there were PVC sched40 ASTM and NSF rated sweep elbows for potable water.

    As requested, here are some additional pictures of the equipment pad: Pad1 and Pad2.

    This is probably the best view:

    Unrelated question: is the Quick Skim valve plumbed to reduce flow for a reason (4 90s)? I've never used it either since that valve doesn't want to budge (I hate PVC valves) and I don't want to force it.


    After starting the thread and thinking on it, I thought of another way. Today I measured and there is enough room. Basically from the filter there is a bell fitting probably RNC sched40, I would cut that put a Union then go to a Tee. I have enough room to take new 2" up to a 90 then SWCG then 90 down to floor cleaners with a union and cap the old union like before. The only dicey part is connecting the seldom used items since the T might push the second 90 too far. I think there is a good chance a street 90 would actually work, but that might require getting the parts in hand to measure . Of course I could always use a combo of 45's or flexible pipe. I do feel flexible pipe doesn't last in the sun as well, but I did build a makeshift roof for the pad to protect my SWCG investment which will go on after the install.

    Here is a picture of the second plumbing scenario: (picture is worst than the first )


    Thanks again for the help!
    10-15K gal IG Pebbletec (Pool), Shasta/Pentair Triton TR-100 Sand filter, Pentair Ultraflow Single Speed Pump, Hayward Aquarite AQR15 Chlorine Generator, A&A QuickClean Floor Pop-Ups (Plumbing Picture), UltraPure Oxidizer [removed]

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    JasonLion's Avatar
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    Re: Arizona Pool SWCG Selection and Installation Questions

    Your new approach certainly gives you more room and a couple of easier connections. It still looks like the cap is going to be a little tight, but I don't see any way around that.
    19K gal, vinyl, 1/2 HP WhisperFlo pump, 200 sqft cartridge filter, AutoPilot Digital SWG, Dolphin Dynamic cleaning robot
    Creator of PoolMath and Pool Calculator. Other handy links: Support this site, TF Test Kits, Pool School

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    bobodaclown's Avatar
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    Re: Arizona Pool SWCG Selection and Installation Questions

    Looks like you've got a plan that will work.
    Use a fine tooth saw when cutting the PVC, don't use the knife looking blade (cuts by pressure), older PVC becomes brittle and will crack and make things a lot harder. (I didn't know that little tidbit of info when I got a leak under the sink.) A five minute job turned into an hour and a half, Two trips to Homedepot and an unhappy wife.
    17K Kidney Shaped Pool Concrete (Diamond Bright) Pool, 3/4 hp 2 speed 115V Sta-rite Duraglas PEA5D-180L/P2R5D-181L (Impeller C105-92PS Diffuser C1-216P), 1.5 piping, Pentair CC100 Filter , Heat Siphon 100K BTU Heat Pump Pool Heater, Flow meter Blue White Flowmeter Model No. F-30150P, Hayward Astrolight SP0581N, SWCG CalimarTitanium Edition TE45 , Dolphin Nautilus Plus with CleverClean, Lakeland Florida

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    bluesmoke's Avatar
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    Re: Arizona Pool SWCG Selection and Installation Questions

    JasonLion thanks for your help, i'm hoping I can play match the union game and cap it that way, but there are a couple other options I have for trying to glue a cap on or shaving it down and putting a plug in.

    bobodaclown, Thanks for the help as well. I always use a hack saw, (mini-hack saw) or rarely a reciprocating saw. The knife and ratcheting type cutters don't cut straight or consistently which leaves bad glue joints. Plus it doesn't take too long to properly cut and deburr plastic pipe even with a cheap hacksaw blade.

    Another thought I had, would the Tee branch introduce too much loss to the SWCG? I took out my pocket pipe book and noticed 2" loss on a branch part of the Tee was much higher than a normal 90. Granted the return should be less psi (10-30), but I guess you'd want the most flow possible through the salt cell. I could always put a 90 then T in the new pipe and connect to the seldom items that way, but that would introduce extra loss from the Tee flow through and an extra 90 for the seldom used items.

    An alternative would be installing a 3 way valve in place of the Tee. From some specs I figure it might be less loss than a standard Tee and I could then bypass the SWCG or the seldom used items and I was considering putting a valve on the seldom used branch anyways. Would that be a good idea or would it introduce the possibilty to put too little flow to the SWCG and damage it (e.g. if the 3way gets bumped or fails). Also, I'm assuming I can install something like the Pentair 3 way sideways and set the input to be from the left.
    10-15K gal IG Pebbletec (Pool), Shasta/Pentair Triton TR-100 Sand filter, Pentair Ultraflow Single Speed Pump, Hayward Aquarite AQR15 Chlorine Generator, A&A QuickClean Floor Pop-Ups (Plumbing Picture), UltraPure Oxidizer [removed]

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    Re: Arizona Pool SWCG Selection and Installation Questions

    Quote Originally Posted by bluesmoke View Post
    As is typical, the pH trends upward, but is handled with ~1-2 gallons of acid a month. I've recently added Borates and I'm going to try a TA of 60 to combat the rise and lower acid use. [/IMG]
    For what it's worth, when I lived in Tucson I didn't have a problem with my TA climbing. I put borax in the water to get the borates to 50 and had a pool cover on the pool when it wasn't in use. I know a lot of people hate pool covers, but my wife and I really liked them because they kept the water warm and there was very little evaporation. And the pool definitely used less chemicals due to the pool cover.
    It was a ~18,000 gallon pool and I think I used less than 2 gallons of acid a year.
    Our pool is 15,000 gallons fresh water with a Hayward C5025 cartridge filter system; inground plaster. We bought the house Oct 2014.

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