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Thread: New Pool need help

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    New Pool need help

    I recently bought a new house with a pool. When I bought the house the water was crystal clear. We owned the house for two months before moving in due to a bit on remodeling. During that time we notice the water level dropping more than expected. We noticed a few area where it was leaking but due to the interior remodel we left the pool unattended so that we could finish the remodel and get moved in. Once we moved in the water was green and swampy. That lead me hear to find out how to take care of the leaks and get the pool cleaned up. once we started getting some bleach in the pool and started running the pump we noticed lots of bubbles from the return jets and very low flow. I assumed I lost prime so I made sure the pump rotors were cleaned and filled the filter basket with water. After three or four times filling the basket we were getting good flow from the return jets. The water started to clear up and we were not losing anymore water. I just received the TF-100 test kit a few days ago and the water has started to really clear up. Still very cloudy but getting better. This morning I go to check the pool and didn't notice the flow from the return jets. We are still having bubbles but they are not constant. I cannot feel any flow and I do not feel a suction from the skimmer. I have replaced and lubed the gasket on the pump filter and tried to add more water to the basket. Still no flow. See my pump setup here. I have many questions but for now I need help figuring out the flow problem. I had good flow a day ago and now nothing. I have done nothing but add bleach to the water and a backwash during this time. The sand filter does not show any pressure while the pump is running. My understanding is that the companies that check for leaks require clear water but I can't get my water completely clear without pump flow.Thanks for the help.

    13,500 gallon IG fiberglass, 3/4hp pump, sand filter

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    duraleigh's Avatar
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    Re: New Pool need help

    Welcome to the forum.

    Backwash the filter again.

    Has your gauge ever been above zero?
    Dave S.
    42k vinyl and concrete pool, 1.5hp pump, 140gpm filter
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    Patrick_B's Avatar
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    Re: New Pool need help

    Welcome to the forum!

    It may be that your just fouling the filter and it needs BW again as Dave said. Chances are you could use a new Pressure Guage. I got one HERE and it's been very good for me. Same place you got your test kit. it's really important to be able to see what your filter is doing and this will help a lot.
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    Re: New Pool need help

    Thanks. I will try to backwash again. The gauge has not read above 0 except for " wooshes". It is a brand new gauge and multiport. When i changed the multiport valve i notice the stand pipe is two pieces. One fits inside the other and they over lap a touch. Could this be causing problems? I was getting good flow on the return jets afte the change though.
    13,500 gallon IG fiberglass, 3/4hp pump, sand filter

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    Re: New Pool need help

    I'm not sure I understand what you mean that they overlap some. Can you take a pic of that? Good you got the new guage, but a little odd you don't see any pressure change at all.
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    Re: New Pool need help

    Quote Originally Posted by Patrick_B View Post
    I'm not sure I understand what you mean that they overlap some. Can you take a pic of that? Good you got the new guage, but a little odd you don't see any pressure change at all.
    The piece of pipe that is in the multiport fits inside the piece that is in the laterals. One is maybe an 1.5" and one is 1.25"
    13,500 gallon IG fiberglass, 3/4hp pump, sand filter

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    Patrick_B's Avatar
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    Re: New Pool need help

    Wtihout seeing it I can't say for sure. In and of itself it just sounds like a transition in size. Probably not the best setup, but from what I picture, it should work. Sorry, but I'm guessing a little here without seeing it.

    There is obviously some other history there as well, with the abandoned piping. It may play no role at all, but it's curious.
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    Re: New Pool need help

    So I looked around a little more yesterday. The suction and return lines run under some banana plants. I dug them up and got them out of the way of the lines thinking they may be causing a leak. With that portion of the lines exposed I ran the pump but do not see any signed of a leak here. It is just strage that two days ago I could feel suction at the skimmer and had decent flow out the return jet but now I cannot feel a suction and hae no flow out of the return jets. Does this sound like a leak on the suction side that is getting worse? Should I keep digging around the lines until I find something? I am running out of ideas. I did try to backwash again as suggested but nothing changed.
    13,500 gallon IG fiberglass, 3/4hp pump, sand filter

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    Re: New Pool need help

    I'm sure it's just me, but I'm confused about just what your issue is. We keep jumping back and forth between issues with the suction side and the return side.

    If me, I'd first determine if I had a suction side issue:

    1. Does the pump prime by itself?
    2. Can you see water being sucked from the pool into the pump strainer area?
    3. When you back wash can you see "pressurized" water leaving the filter?
    4. Worst case, if I though I had a blocked filter issue, I'd disconnect the union on the output of the pump and make sure water was shooting out of there with the pump on. (Not for long of course).

    I'd really like to know if your pump is working correctly before looking at the filter or return side for issues.


    Thanks,

    Jim R.

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    Re: New Pool need help

    For now, stop digging. Based on previous posts a suction leak seems unlikely. If you had a significant one, you would have trouble with prime and see air remain in the pump strainer body. You had flow before, so it seems something is obstructing it now. You are able to backwash, so that would indicate you're getting prime. What happens when you backwash? Do you see a change in the water from start to finish? There just arent a lot of things it can be. You are either not getting prime, or you are blocked on flow. Perhaps you're fouling the filter very quickly? If it were that significant a discharge leak, you'd have to be replacing water. I wouldn't normally mention it, but I'm curious about the plumbing on the new MP valve. Can you show that in a picture?
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    Re: New Pool need help

    Quote Originally Posted by Jimrahbe View Post
    I'm sure it's just me, but I'm confused about just what your issue is. We keep jumping back and forth between issues with the suction side and the return side.

    If me, I'd first determine if I had a suction side issue:

    1. Does the pump prime by itself?
    2. Can you see water being sucked from the pool into the pump strainer area?
    3. When you back wash can you see "pressurized" water leaving the filter?
    4. Worst case, if I though I had a blocked filter issue, I'd disconnect the union on the output of the pump and make sure water was shooting out of there with the pump on. (Not for long of course).

    I'd really like to know if your pump is working correctly before looking at the filter or return side for issues.


    Thanks,

    Jim R.
    Sorry for jumping around so much. Two days ago I could see the water flowing into the skimmer and if I put my hand down there I could feel the suction. As of yesterday that all stopped. I cannot see or feel and flow to the skimmer. This is a pic of the flow when I backwash. It used to be much more flow than this. But this is consistently what I have been getting in the last day or so.

    13,500 gallon IG fiberglass, 3/4hp pump, sand filter

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    Re: New Pool need help

    Seeing that makes me even more curious about what I asked.
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    Re: New Pool need help

    I'll try to get picture of the plumbing this evening if I can. Thanks for the help.
    13,500 gallon IG fiberglass, 3/4hp pump, sand filter

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    Re: New Pool need help

    The pictures of the stand pipe are shown below. A couple of things that i noticed.
    1. There are barely any sand in the filter. This is shown in the pic. The lateral is just about even with the sand.
    2. I took the drain cap off and nothing drained out of the filter. I tired to poke a stick inside but it feels like there is a plug or something inside the drain port.

    On to the pics





    This is how the MP came out of the filter


    This is how the stand pipes fits into the laterals
    13,500 gallon IG fiberglass, 3/4hp pump, sand filter

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    Mod Squad Jimrahbe's Avatar
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    Re: New Pool need help

    I've never seen a sand filter, but it appears to me something is just not right. When I look at pics on-line, they all show the pipe coming from the value and the laterals as one piece. Logically this makes sense as you would want the incoming water to go down and out the laterals and up through the sand and back to the pool returns. In your case it appear this pipe has no solid connection to the laterals. I would think this would cause the water to take the path of least resistance and just bubble right back up. Again, I've only seen a couple of pictures of sand filters, but I suspect yours has a missing gasket, or has been jury rigged by someone. Just my guess...

    Hopefully someone with a better background in sand filters will step in with a better answer.

    Jim R.

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    Re: New Pool need help

    Agree with Jimrahbe that something looks wrong. The connection between the center pipe and the lateral hub appears mis-matched.

    By the way, the flow through the filter is really the reverse of what was stated. Water enters at the top and is sprayed out of the black chamber with all the holes that's on the underside of the multiport. It then goes through the sand to the laterals and comes back up the center tube to exit through the multiport.

    NJC010, you say it's a brand new multiport. Are you sure it's the right replacement? Is there a piece missing in your photo's? Why did you replace it? Can you list the model numbers of your filter and pump in your signature so we can look up manuals, etc to help you. Sand level is definitely too low. Did you have sand coming out your returns at some time?

    As others have pointed out, you should verify your pump is OK by turning it on without it connected to the filter but I'm guessing it will be fine. If you get a nice fire hose flow of water, it would point to your filter as the problem. At that point I'd definitely verify you have all the right parts. I'd fully disassemble to make sure nothing is blocking flow through the lateral assembly.
    21K gal 16' x 40' in-ground pool built 1959, old school with Jacuzzi bronze pump, American Products 24" Sand Filter & Americana Multiport valve, Jandy Lite2 millivolt heater, Coverstar cover, and classic Kreepy Krauly.

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    Re: New Pool need help

    I replaced the multiport because the old one had multiple cracks and was leaking all over the place. I cannot find a model or part number on the filter or the pump. I assume it is a Hayward filter. I'll get a measurement on it tonight. The multiport valve is the same model that I removed from the filter.

    I have never seen sand coming out of the returns.

    I will try the pump tonight now that it is disconnected from the filter

    I will also clean the sand out of the filter and check the laterals this evening.

    Thanks for the help.
    13,500 gallon IG fiberglass, 3/4hp pump, sand filter

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    Re: New Pool need help

    Checked the pump flow without the filter connected. Still not a lot of flow. See photo below.

    I cleaned out the sand filter and need to know how to identify which model of filter it is. I am pretty sure the diameter is 24" with the MP in the top. The MP is a Hayward. The laterals screw in and one of them was broken. See the main piece where the laterals connect in the photo below.







    Thanks for the help
    13,500 gallon IG fiberglass, 3/4hp pump, sand filter

  19. Back To Top    #19
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    Re: New Pool need help

    If you have a clear top on your pump basket, could you tell if it fully primed (no really big air bubbles)? The picture of your pump shows it's intake comes from ground. Are there any valves between the pump and the skimmer/main drain?
    21K gal 16' x 40' in-ground pool built 1959, old school with Jacuzzi bronze pump, American Products 24" Sand Filter & Americana Multiport valve, Jandy Lite2 millivolt heater, Coverstar cover, and classic Kreepy Krauly.

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    Re: New Pool need help

    While the pump is running the basket is about 1/2 to 3/4 full if water. When i turn it off it fills back up all the way.

    No valves in the suction line.
    13,500 gallon IG fiberglass, 3/4hp pump, sand filter

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