Heavy dog use - keeping water balanced

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N

Nwoulf

0
Feb 26, 2015
9
Appleton, wi
Hi,
I'm new to this site - and learning a lot. I have an indoor swimming pool for dogs business. Been running it for 3 months now, have my water tested weekly at the pool store and have been using their products to keep things balanced (BioGuard) and shocking weekly. I'm constantly struggling with cloudy water, and am spending a ton of $$ of their products and researching for better methods.
I have a 16'x32'x4' Intex pool, Hayward 1hp Sand filter 100lb of sand, Zodiac Nature2 Vessel, Intex skimmer and gas heater. The pool is set up indoors, using an air-to-air exchange to manage humidity. The pool is kept at 82 degrees, room temp at 77.

On a typical day we have 12 swims - which averages out to 16 dog a day swimming in the pool (people can swim up to 2 dogs per session).

I'm confused about the Nature2 system - since the mineral cartidge adds in copper - but then when I get my water tested they say the copper is high and needs to be removed.
Also I'm using the Smart Shock with sodium dichloro - will using bleach be enough considering the amount of use this pool gets?

I would love to get the pool more balanced for longer periods of time and use less products. Would switching to baking soda and bleach be enough to manage this pool with so much use?

Any info/advice would be awesome!
Nita
 
Welcome to TFP Nita!

Bleach will absolutely be enough to handle this pool, and indoor pools are slightly different in terms of Cya and Chlorine levels. We aren't fans of the Nature2 system largely because it causes staining and is often suggested as an alternative to Chlorine or less Chlorine.

You really just need two things to manage this pool on your own, but we can teach how and it's really quite easy. The first and most important is knowledge and the best place to start with that is in Pool School here. Start with the ABCs and work your way up from there.

The next most important thing you'll need is a good test kit. I always suggest the TF-100 because it's the best value and has top of the line Taylor reagents. Its a must have if you want to take control yourself.

We can get you off the pool store roller coaster and it almost always is much, much cheaper in the long run with our methods. Following them will also get you out of that weekly "shock" routine, and your pool will likely be in much better shape than ever. Feel free to ask questions if you have them, we'll be here to help. Click the links in my signature for the items I have suggested.

Enjoy your time on TFP. :goodjob:
 
Welcome to TFP!

I strongly recommend doing some reading in Pool School. There are some basic ways things work you haven't gotten a handle on yet.

The most important thing to understand is that CYA reduces the effectiveness of chlorine. Dichlor contains CYA, so if you are using dichlor the CYA rate will be going up very quickly and you will need to raise the FC level to compensate. If CYA gets too high, even that won't really be enough. Liquid bleach will be much more effective because it doesn't constantly raise CYA, so you have much more control over what is going on.

Weekly testing is not sufficient for a pool with that level of usage. You need to be testing daily at the very least, and probably three or four times a day, with that level of usage. It is especially important to monitor the FC level and maintain it at a uniform level. That is simply impossible with weekly testing.

We strongly recommend against using Nature2, or any other system that adds copper to the water. Copper is prone to causing unsightly stains which are somewhere between difficult and impossible to remove. Also copper doesn't do anything that can't be done more effectively with chlorine.

With an indoor pool you will need to monitor the CC level and try to keep it as low as possible. MPS or UV may be required to keep CC and water clarity under control.

The amount of filtering required for a pool with this level of usage is far above what is typical for residential pools. Depending on your equipment details you may well need to run the filter 24/7.
 
Welcome to TFP !
Take all of Jason's advice and do your home work in Pool School. Here is the best article to start with. ABC'S Of Pool Water Chemistry
To keep your water in top notch condition your going to need one of these Test Kits. You need to be able to have an accurate way of testing your water parameters. The pool store will not be able to give you the accurate results that one of those kits will give you. It's a must have for your situation. The TF100 kit is the best value !
 
Thank you so much for the information. I realized that I left out a couple things on my initial post.
I do run the filter 24/7.
I test the water daily for FC & PH using a Poolmaster 5-way test kit. I take it into the pool store once a week for their computer analysis.
I was already thinking of removing the mineral cartridge from the Nature2 system, but should I continue to use the chlorine feeder in it?
I'm going to order the TF-100 right away.

THANKS!!!!
Nita
 
Good deal Nita,

You'll not regret the purcahse and you'll have no need to go back to the pool store once you're on your own. With your heavy use of the Kit, the Speedstir Option is a very good idea. You'll be glad you have it I promise.
 
Good job Nita ! When you have questions you know where to come. You can keep any further questions in this thread you started. It makes it easier for people to see all your history.
Thanks Jeff.
 
With as much testing as you will do, go with the XL option with the TF 100 kit.

Nwoulf said:
Thank you so much for the information. I realized that I left out a couple things on my initial post.
I do run the filter 24/7.
I test the water daily for FC & PH using a Poolmaster 5-way test kit. I take it into the pool store once a week for their computer analysis.
I was already thinking of removing the mineral cartridge from the Nature2 system, but should I continue to use the chlorine feeder in it?
I'm going to order the TF-100 right away.

THANKS!!!!
Nita
Click to expand...
 
This is wonderful first step towards taking care of your pool on the cheap! LOL You will save SO much money now that you have a good test kit of your own!

Your next step will be to find a good place to get your bleach/chlorine. For some it is Walmart, others Ace Hardware, some even the pool store (this is the ONLY thing they get from there). Make sure to look at the %. Walmart is 8%, some pool stores 11%.

NO "flavored" bleach or splashless. Just plain bleach/chlorine. Lowes and Home depot are NOT good places to get your chlorine as it seems to sit around getting "old". Bleach/chlorine does lose it's punch with heat and time so........

You will not be using the tablets any more. They can cause many problems as you will see when you read the ABCs. From now on you will be using bleach/chlorine.

Welcome and ask any questions you have.

Kim
 
it is my understanding that any time liquid bleach is added to the pool, it can't be used for 24 hours. Since this pool is my business, it's being used 7 days a week. I'm concerned if I remove the chlorine tablet feeder that I will have to SLAM more often? If I SLAM in smaller amounts can I keep the pool up and running without the 24 hour stop.

Also right now we use the quick shock anytime a dog poops in the pool, which occasionally happens. I haven't found any information on how else to manage this?
Nita
 

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I've never heard that claim. Could you tell us where you heard that.
My kids have swam shortly after I've added bleach. Bleach is all I use for my chlorination. You can swim in FC levels up to SLAM level for the CYA level.
I Don't see how bleach would do any harm to a dog. Lots of folks here have dogs in their pools and they use bleach.
Chlorine is chlorine no matter how it's introduced. Bleach is after all liquid chlorine, water and a little salt. I don't think there's any truth to that claim.
 
Nwoulf said:
it is my understanding that any time liquid bleach is added to the pool, it can't be used for 24 hours. Since this pool is my business, it's being used 7 days a week. I'm concerned if I remove the chlorine tablet feeder that I will have to SLAM more often? If I SLAM in smaller amounts can I keep the pool up and running without the 24 hour stop.

Also right now we use the quick shock anytime a dog poops in the pool, which occasionally happens. I haven't found any information on how else to manage this?
Nita
Click to expand...

No, if you wait 30 minutes for a regular addition of bleach, it is more than safe. If you wanted to be over kill safe, you could wait one hour. Whoever told you that, was absolutely wrong.

Once you SLAM your pool using what we teach, the need for weekly shocking as taught by the industry will go away. Your case is slightly different with the extremely heavy load you put on the pool. That difference will require much more frequent testing of FC to make sure you are within range. Most likely a few times daily, at least initially, until you can predict with accuracy what happens with your pool. You'll learn what additions add in terms of FC, and how much load (dogs in the pool) does to the FC level. You will gain a feel for it, but up front you will need to test a minimum of a few times daily. This will keep your pool safe, without over chlorinating, which may have been the case.

As for your last question, that is a little tougher. I'm not advising you from a clinical or medically qualified position, so please understand that. But if that happens, the best I can suggest is raising the FC level to SLAM level PER YOUR CYA level. It's safe to swim in those parameters, but this is really a different situation you have here. If you have a period of down time in the pool, I would suggest bringing it up to SLAM level every time you have that window because of these accidents, and the extreme load you are putting on the pool chemistry.

Lastly, what you will learn here will most likely keep your pool in much better shape than it was before in terms of chemical and clarity level, but it will likely not be crystal clear as a normal use pool would be. Simply because it's ability to be filtered with it's configuration, and the very heavy load you'll be putting on it. I don't want to discouarge you, but this will likely play out as such in the end. Tougher situation than a normal use residential pool is the simple truth, so things will be a little different.
 
I am not sure where you got info about not being able to use the pool after bleach is added.

Look at what is in the quick shock and tablets. There is powered bleach when you come right down to it.

A SLAM is for a "troubled" pool. One that has algae in it.

What we can teach you is how to MAINTAIN your pool at safe, usable levels for every day use.

My thoughts for you are:

-Get a GOOD test kit (tf-100 XL)

-Balance your pool once you get your test kit

-find a source for liquid bleach/chlorine

-Put in the needed bleach/chlorine after your last client for the day.

Once all of these things are done you will find your pool care SO much cheaper and easier!

It is good to ask questions and do your research to make sure you have all of the correct, science based answers you need.

Good luck!

Kim
 
kimkats said:
A SLAM is for a "troubled" pool. One that has algae in it. Kim
Click to expand...

Or, any situation where the health and safety of the pool may have been compromised by any bilogical contamination. Not just with Algae. Aside from stopping Algae growth, the purpose of Chlorine is for the protection of the pool occupants health. For, but not lmited too, transmission of bacterial infection. It is extremely important to remember this, because it is Chlorine's primary purpose. Very important in this specific situation.
 
Patrick_B said:
Or, any situation where the health and safety of the pool may have been compromised by any bilogical contamination. Not just with Algae. Aside from stopping Algae growth, the purpose of Chlorine is for the protection of the pool occupants health. For, but not lmited too, transmission of bacterial infection. It is extremely important to remember this, because it is Chlorine's primary purpose. Very important in this specific situation.
Click to expand...

Good catch! The dog pooping in the pool WOULD fit under that for sure!

Kim
 
We've had a pool for our dogs for 9 years. We have at least 6 dogs in the pool at least 5 days a week in the summer and often have 10 or more. Ours is a 17'x29'x4' Splash and I have use the methods on this site from the very beginning. I keep the FC value adjusted according to the Chlorine/CYA chart in the Pool School. You will have no problems with chlorine with the dogs, but be careful, some products, such as Borax, are toxic to dogs. Out pool is outdoors. I usually add the chlorine an hour or two before the dogs start swimming or do it when they are finished. You do not have to wait 24 hours after adding bleach.

Based on my experience, I'd say your filter is too small. We have a 1hp pump and started with a filter that held 150 pounds of sand. There were often issues with cloudy water after big swims. Dogs carry a lot of particulate matter into the pool, so you need to be able to get that all out. Last year we upgraded to a 300lb, 24" filter based on recommendations from this forum. It made a huge difference in water quality and the pool stayed clear all last season. I run the filter 10 hours a day, on average.

Get a good test kit and follow the instructions from this site and you should be in good shape.

Labrador floatilla 8-09.jpg
 
It's hard to get them out of the water! They'll play hard for over an hour and still not want to come out.

Patrick_B, we originally got the pool as a therapy pool for one of our Labs who had arthritis (she's my avatar) and it sort of grew from there. We train dogs for use as therapy dogs, but not for hunting or other types of dog sports. Our neighbor and a few other people who come frequently are high-level agility competitors and some are professional trainers.
 

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