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Thread: Plumbing questions!

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    Plumbing questions!

    Hello everyone at TFP! Newish pool owner here first time posting, but have read alot of great information on this site.. I am going to be redoing some plumbing here soon and was hoping for some of your input. This is a roughly 20k gallon oval shaped salt water pool with a liner, and has two returns with one main drain and one skimmer. I can only assume the one return line has a "T" somewhere underground splitting into two.

    The sand filter seems a bit dated, and currently is in need of a new multi-port valve. It has cracking around the pressure gauge and a small leak. The leak can probably be fixed, the cracking however can not. The sand was new about 4 years ago so I believe that may need to be replaced now as we battled mustard algae last summer.

    photo 1.jpgphoto 3.jpg

    As you can see the current setup uses those PVC ball valves, all of which are in need of being replaced. I am not sure I need a valve on the waste line, but was going to replace the two valves for the skimmer and drain with a Jandy 3 way valve. All piping is 1.5" and I believe the inlet on the Hayward Ecostar to be 3". I have read alot of differing opinions regarding the length of pipe (if any) needed between the last bend and the pump to reduce turbulence.. Are there any potential issues by connecting the 3 way almost directly to the pump inlet? I also want to add unions where necessary and improve on the existing design in any way if possible.

    I should add that we are considering adding a solar heating system in the next year or so as well. I also have no idea what the two capped lines coming out of the ground are for...

    Any information, recommendations or suggestions will be most appreciated! Thanks for reading


    -NuTu

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    Patrick_B's Avatar
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    Re: Plumbing questions!

    Welcome to the forum!

    Others will be along to make plenty of suggestions, just wanted to say welcome aboard.
    TFP Moderator
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    ABC's Of Pool Chemistry, Test Kits, SLAM Your Pool
    28K Gal IG FreeForm, CLI Quartz, Pentair 36"SF & VS Pump, Dolphin M5, Rheem

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    Re: Plumbing questions!

    The unions on the pump will take 2" pvc pipe on the inside and a 2.5" coupling to the outside (to connect 2.5" pvc.).

    The installation manual specifies a straight length of pvc equal to 5 x I.D of pipe. So, 10" or 12.5". That's not always practical, but it's a better install, especially if you're going to be running above 75% of the full pump speed.

    What flow rate do you think you will need?

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    Re: Plumbing questions!

    Quote Originally Posted by Brushpup View Post
    Welcome to the forum!

    Others will be along to make plenty of suggestions, just wanted to say welcome aboard.
    Thanks for the warm welcome!

    Quote Originally Posted by JamesW View Post
    The unions on the pump will take 2" pvc pipe on the inside and a 2.5" coupling to the outside (to connect 2.5" pvc.).

    The installation manual specifies a straight length of pvc equal to 5 x I.D of pipe. So, 10" or 12.5". That's not always practical, but it's a better install, especially if you're going to be running above 75% of the full pump speed.

    What flow rate do you think you will need?
    Thanks James, I am not quite sure what I need. Maybe someone or yourself might be able to help me there? The filter is a Pentair Eclipse model# 589301, with a max flow rate of 70gpm... Tank is 26" in diameter with 3.5 sq ft of filter area. Pump normally operates around 50% (~1700rpm) as I understand you achieve better filtration at a lower flow rate.

  5. Back To Top    #5

    Re: Plumbing questions!

    You should be OK using a 2" x 2.5" Jandy three-way neverlube in front of the pump. Ideally, you would want 8" to 10" of straight pipe going into the pump. However, due to the low flow rate, I think that you would be fine using a 2.5" coupling over the threeway valve and the pump union to connect them together. Or, you could just use 2" pvc into the union coupling. Or, you could use a 1.5 x 2" neverlube and slip the neverlube into the new union connection.

    I would suggest a max flow rate of 45 to 50 gpm. However, you should be able to go lower as long as you meet any flow requirements of heaters, solar, SWGs etc.

    I would recommend replacing the front union coupling since it's reduced down to 1.5".

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    Re: Plumbing questions!

    Thanks for the insight! I planned on replacing the front union coupling on the pump, I just cant figure out weather to utilize a 1.5" x 2" or 2" x 2.5" Jandy three-way...

    The current setup is 6" from the union coupling to the back of the "T", and 12" to the outside of each of the pipes coming up. According to the spec sheet, the Jandy is 6.5" wide (connecting drain and skimmer) and 5.5" long (connecting to pump inlet.)

    If I use the 2" x 2.5" I think I will run into trouble connecting the drain and skimmer lines as the 90 elbow couplings wouldn't have enough on them to plumb into the Jandy. If I use the 1.5" x 2" I think I will run into problems connecting the Jandy to the pump inlet.

    I have not figured out the right combination of couplings and/or reducers to get this setup right in my head.. Sorry I hope that all makes some sort of sense, its been a crazy few days and an even crazier Friday!

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    Re: Plumbing questions!

    Using the 1.5" x 2" Jandy Never-Lube would be easiest. The valve could slip into the pump front coupling. Then you can go 1.5" into the valve from the skimmer and main drain.

    The straight distance going into the pump should not be a problem due to the low flow rate that you will be using. If your flow rate was going to be much higher, then the straight pipe requirement would become more important.

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    Re: Plumbing questions!

    Right on, that's what I was leaning towards. I just measured again and it looks like using the 90 degree couplings might interfere with the Jandy like I thought. Appears that each 90 degree coupling might be too long by .5", I should be able to get away with it though by pulling the two pipes apart a little.. With that said, I have ordered the 1.5" x 2" Jandy three way valve and will update once I start getting my feet wet.

    Thanks for the help James!

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    Multiport replacement ?s

    I mentioned that I will need to replace the multiport since the housing is cracked. I am having some trouble locating the right part as it seems the replacement listed for the Pentair Eclipse #589301 has been discontinued. Would any top mount multiport suffice or is there one in particular I should lean towards? Would I be wise to just invest in an entire new filter/multiport setup instead of using the new multiport on an aged filter?

    Thanks in advance fellow poolies!

    -NuTu

    Topic Merged from the new thread you created. It fits better here to keep it all together. Moderator Patrick B

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    Re: Multiport replacement ?s

    You may find it easier to just replace the sand filter with a current model.. By the time you replace the valve, gauge and most probably the internals of the sand filter once you attempt to remove the sand an mess those up as well.

    Question for you more experienced pool guys. Isn't the chlorinator suppose to be positioned horizontally instead of vertically like this one is?

    Todd
    15x36 Gunite w/Diamond Brite(Bahama Breeze plaster), 3.5-6', Pentair Easytouch Automation panel, Pentair 3HP VS pump, Pentair CNC 420 filter, Pentair 5G color changing light, Polaris 360 cleaner w/booster, Pentair IC-20 SWG
    My pool build
    http://www.troublefreepool.com/threa...ales-Louisiana

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    JasonLion's Avatar
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    Re: Plumbing questions!

    Top mount multi-ports are not interchangeable, you need an exact match for your specific filter. Try these people and see if they have the correct one for your filter.

    36racin, vertical mounting is generally fine for most SWGs. I've only seen a few brands that prohibit it. That looks like an AquaRite cell. They do allow vertical mounting.
    19K gal, vinyl, 1/2 HP WhisperFlo pump, 200 sqft cartridge filter, AutoPilot Digital SWG, Dolphin Dynamic cleaning robot
    Creator of PoolMath and Pool Calculator. Other handy links: Support this site, TF Test Kits, Pool School

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    Re: Plumbing questions!

    Fair enough, I think its time to start pricing out a new filter! Figure by the time I get the all the replacement parts needed I will have spent over half the cost of a new unit. Might as well do it right and have everything I need to rock and roll, hassle free. Any recommendations anyone??

    Yes that is a fairly new Hayward AquaRite T-15 cell, the original died back in August. I have been having issues with the control panel that I will address separately over in the SWG area sometime soon.

    Thanks for all the input TFP!!

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    Divin Dave's Avatar
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    Re: Plumbing questions!

    Hi,
    All of the different types of filters, Sand, DE, Cartridge filter just fine. It all comes down to personal preference more than anything.

    the minimum size you need is really dependent on the size of your pool.

    If you would fill out your signature with your pool details, it will show up on every post you make. This will help us help you quicker.
    Under the POOLS SCHOOL button, click SETTINGS
    On the left side, scroll down until you see EDIT SIGNATURE. Click it
    Fill in your pool details, and then click SAVE and you're done.

    If you havent read up on how to clean the different types of filters, here is a link to the subject. This may help you in making a choice.
    http://www.troublefreepool.com/conte...f-pool-filters

    Here is a very useful link. Scroll Down to Filter sizing to get some useful info from the sizing chart.
    http://www.troublefreepool.com/threa...lost-your-head

    After you have made a determination as to which type of filter you want, then we can make recommendations on sizing it if you still need it by then.
    Divin Dave,
    IG Vinyl, 15' x 30', 3 1/2' - 6' deep, Oval, ~15K gal, Intelliclor IC40, Intelliflo VS pump, Clean and Clear 420 Filter, auto-fill-disabled, Retrofit LED Color Light, Dolphin Nautilus Robot, TF100 Test Kit, Taylor K1766 Salt Test Kit, Tftestkit Pressure Gauge.
    www.tftestkits.net Experience- it's what's learned just after you needed it most !!

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    Re: Plumbing questions!

    Thanks for the reminder Dave, been meaning to do that!!! Signature updated

    Leaning towards staying with a sand filter, seems to best suit my needs. My mind may change after reading however

    On another note, does anyone have a clue what those two pipes capped off at the equipment pad may be? Pool has two return jets, one skimmer and one drain. Vac port near the skimmer is blocked off
    IG vinyl 18' x 36' oval ~20k gal SW pool built in 1999 (liner new 11/2009) Hayward Ecostar 3400VSP (7/2011) Hayward SwimPure Plus SWG (3/2011) w/ Hayward T-15 cell (8/2015) Pentair Eclipse 26" sand filter #589301 (sand 3/2011) Aquabot Turbo TJet (5/2012) Newbie currently updating some plumbing and looking for a great deal on a new sand filter!

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    Re: Plumbing questions!

    Great information posted in the links above, Dave.. Kept me busy for a while and made my head hurt. I think I am going to stay with a sand filter, and the best bang for the buck seems to be the Hayward S270T @ $331 with the S244T @ $298. Amazon had the 27" just a few weeks ago at $257 according to the camel, DOH!! A 24" Pentair Tagelus TA60D would run me another $150, lowest I can find it listed is $480. EDIT: Found for $399..

    I read somewhere that having the extra bit of filter area would be a good thing, so I am unsure which way to lean since I was told a 24" would be sufficient

    The current Pentair Eclipse filter is 26", filter area 3.5 sq ft, max flow rate 70 GPM, and holds 225lbs of sand.

    I have searched around regarding the Hayward vs Pentair filter debate and can't seem to find any facts just personal opinion. Don't want to stir anything up I just want to know if there is any real advantage choosing one over the other based on your experiences.. Product design and QC, customer service, etc... Thoughts?
    IG vinyl 18' x 36' oval ~20k gal SW pool built in 1999 (liner new 11/2009) Hayward Ecostar 3400VSP (7/2011) Hayward SwimPure Plus SWG (3/2011) w/ Hayward T-15 cell (8/2015) Pentair Eclipse 26" sand filter #589301 (sand 3/2011) Aquabot Turbo TJet (5/2012) Newbie currently updating some plumbing and looking for a great deal on a new sand filter!

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    JasonLion's Avatar
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    Re: Plumbing questions!

    Hayward and Pentair are both good, though neither is perfect. There is more variation within either one of those brands than there is between them.

    We recommend getting the largest filter you can afford and have space for. Larger filters go longer between backwashes/cleaning and are just slightly more efficient.
    19K gal, vinyl, 1/2 HP WhisperFlo pump, 200 sqft cartridge filter, AutoPilot Digital SWG, Dolphin Dynamic cleaning robot
    Creator of PoolMath and Pool Calculator. Other handy links: Support this site, TF Test Kits, Pool School

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    Re: Plumbing questions!

    I think the largest we have room for, both real estate wise and wallet wise, would be the 350lb 26" sand filter. Surely an improvement from our old 225lb eclipse.

    Would upgrading everything above ground from 1.5" to 2" with this setup be useful? Considering we would like to add solar heat in the future that would only travel up one story, I figure its best to reduce head loss where possible right? I have the option of switching over to a filter with a 2" multiport vs 1.5" since my Hayward arrived damaged. Id have to spend more out of pocket but rather do things right the first time. My 3 way also arrived with a manufacturing defect, and I can step that up from the 1.5"-2" to the larger 2"-2.5".

    I am having great luck with ordering all this new stuff so far

    I was going to just redo it all with 1.5" but am second guessing myself. Help! Also open to ANY suggestions for improvement anywhere along the line.

    Side note.. Previous owners installed those swimming pool fountains that attach to both of the returns, not sure if this may or may not have an impact on the operation of the pool but figured it was worth mentioning at this point.
    IG vinyl 18' x 36' oval ~20k gal SW pool built in 1999 (liner new 11/2009) Hayward Ecostar 3400VSP (7/2011) Hayward SwimPure Plus SWG (3/2011) w/ Hayward T-15 cell (8/2015) Pentair Eclipse 26" sand filter #589301 (sand 3/2011) Aquabot Turbo TJet (5/2012) Newbie currently updating some plumbing and looking for a great deal on a new sand filter!

  18. Back To Top    #18
    JasonLion's Avatar
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    Re: Plumbing questions!

    Switching to 2" plumbing on anything that is getting replaced anyway is well worth it.
    19K gal, vinyl, 1/2 HP WhisperFlo pump, 200 sqft cartridge filter, AutoPilot Digital SWG, Dolphin Dynamic cleaning robot
    Creator of PoolMath and Pool Calculator. Other handy links: Support this site, TF Test Kits, Pool School

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    Re: Plumbing questions!

    I saw that you will be adding solar and larger plumbing. If you are staying with sand please go to a larger filter. 30" will give you close to 100gpm and less restriction in the system. As always great advice.
    Hayward Pool Tech
    80+ Years of Technologically Advanced Pool Product Manufacturing
    poolside@haywardnet.com

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