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Thread: Heat Pump recommendations please ...

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    ashmoussa's Avatar
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    Heat Pump recommendations please ...

    Hi TFP,
    I am looking for recommendations for a heater for a fiberglass pool in NJ with specs as follows:
    Size: 16 x 40
    Depths: 3'6" to 6'6"
    Gallons: 17,000
    Water surface: 468 sq.ft.

    My rates for Gas are:
    Screen Shot 2015-02-19 at 5.44.21 PM.png
    and my rate for Electricity is 0.14

    I hear that heat pumps are more economical but don't work below 40's. Which I'm fine with. I wouldn't want to go outside swimming in anything lower than 40 anyway. I want the pool temp to be around 80ish. The average temps for NJ are as follows:
    Screen Shot 2015-02-19 at 6.04.10 PM.jpg

    What are your recommendations?? (makes, models, sizes, etc...)

    Thank you for all your help in advance!!!!
    May 2015: 17K Viking Caribbean Fiberglass IG pool (16'x40'), PAL lighting three 2T4 LED's (inside pool), Hayward DE 6020, Hayward Ecostar VS pump, SWG TCell15, Hayward HP21404T Heat Pump, Hayward Omnilogic automation + Sense & Dispense (HLCHEM).
    Rest of the backyard ideas/wish list: 12 x 20 Pergola, 48" Round Firepit, Accent/Landscape lighting, Outdoor movie theatre and music (projector & speakers), etc...

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    JasonLion's Avatar
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    Re: Heat Pump recommendations please ...

    A heat pump can be a good choice if you are planning to heat the pool for weeks at a time. Gas heat is much better if you want to heat the pool now and then for a day or two. Many people who think they are going to heat the pool all the time end up giving up on that once they discover how expensive it is.
    19K gal, vinyl, 1/2 HP WhisperFlo pump, 200 sqft cartridge filter, AutoPilot Digital SWG, Dolphin Dynamic cleaning robot
    Creator of PoolMath and Pool Calculator. Other handy links: Support this site, TF Test Kits, Pool School

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    ashmoussa's Avatar
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    Re: Heat Pump recommendations please ...

    I'm leaning towards a heat pump for that exact reason but I have no idea what brand and size would be the best.
    Thx Jason.
    May 2015: 17K Viking Caribbean Fiberglass IG pool (16'x40'), PAL lighting three 2T4 LED's (inside pool), Hayward DE 6020, Hayward Ecostar VS pump, SWG TCell15, Hayward HP21404T Heat Pump, Hayward Omnilogic automation + Sense & Dispense (HLCHEM).
    Rest of the backyard ideas/wish list: 12 x 20 Pergola, 48" Round Firepit, Accent/Landscape lighting, Outdoor movie theatre and music (projector & speakers), etc...

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    Mod Squad pooldv's Avatar
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    Re: Heat Pump recommendations please ...

    I would get the same brand as your pump and automation for maximum compatibility. Given your location and relatively low temps, compared to Texas anyway, I would get the biggest one they have.
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    2012 build and pics, 20k gal gunite, black onyx pebblesheen, OK flagstone, IntellifoVS, cart filter w/Pleatco, IC40 SWG, Solartouch, 5 12'x4' solar panels, HP50HA heat pump, 8mil solar cover, borates, TF-100 test kit, SONOS, Doheny's Discovery Robot, hot tub on bleach

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    ashmoussa's Avatar
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    Re: Heat Pump recommendations please ...

    Most heat pumps I've found top out at 140,000 BTUs. Would that be big enough??
    Thx.
    May 2015: 17K Viking Caribbean Fiberglass IG pool (16'x40'), PAL lighting three 2T4 LED's (inside pool), Hayward DE 6020, Hayward Ecostar VS pump, SWG TCell15, Hayward HP21404T Heat Pump, Hayward Omnilogic automation + Sense & Dispense (HLCHEM).
    Rest of the backyard ideas/wish list: 12 x 20 Pergola, 48" Round Firepit, Accent/Landscape lighting, Outdoor movie theatre and music (projector & speakers), etc...

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    JasonLion's Avatar
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    Re: Heat Pump recommendations please ...

    That depends on what you are trying to do. That would be fine for extending the swim season two months on either side (assuming a solar cover), but not nearly enough to swim year round.
    19K gal, vinyl, 1/2 HP WhisperFlo pump, 200 sqft cartridge filter, AutoPilot Digital SWG, Dolphin Dynamic cleaning robot
    Creator of PoolMath and Pool Calculator. Other handy links: Support this site, TF Test Kits, Pool School

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    ashmoussa's Avatar
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    Re: Heat Pump recommendations please ...

    With the amount of snow we get up here it would be impossible to swim year round. I'm just looking to add those couple of months b4 and after the normal 4 month swim season.
    As for solar covers, what do you recommend?? And what would be the best way to use it to maximize the amount of heat retention??
    Thx again Jason
    May 2015: 17K Viking Caribbean Fiberglass IG pool (16'x40'), PAL lighting three 2T4 LED's (inside pool), Hayward DE 6020, Hayward Ecostar VS pump, SWG TCell15, Hayward HP21404T Heat Pump, Hayward Omnilogic automation + Sense & Dispense (HLCHEM).
    Rest of the backyard ideas/wish list: 12 x 20 Pergola, 48" Round Firepit, Accent/Landscape lighting, Outdoor movie theatre and music (projector & speakers), etc...

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    Re: Heat Pump recommendations please ...

    As long as your average air temperature is at least 50 degrees, you should be able to get 80 degrees pool water. A solar bubble cover would be great to help retain the heat.
    AquaCal.com has a sizing program and cost comparator that shows you the anticipated cost to operate.
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    ashmoussa's Avatar
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    Re: Heat Pump recommendations please ...

    Super!!
    But I heard problems with the bubble type solar covers, with the bubbles disintegrating and getting into everything. Is that true?
    Thx Sean.
    May 2015: 17K Viking Caribbean Fiberglass IG pool (16'x40'), PAL lighting three 2T4 LED's (inside pool), Hayward DE 6020, Hayward Ecostar VS pump, SWG TCell15, Hayward HP21404T Heat Pump, Hayward Omnilogic automation + Sense & Dispense (HLCHEM).
    Rest of the backyard ideas/wish list: 12 x 20 Pergola, 48" Round Firepit, Accent/Landscape lighting, Outdoor movie theatre and music (projector & speakers), etc...

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    Re: Heat Pump recommendations please ...

    Quote Originally Posted by Poolsean View Post
    As long as your average air temperature is at least 50 degrees, you should be able to get 80 degrees pool water. A solar bubble cover would be great to help retain the heat.
    AquaCal.com has a sizing program and cost comparator that shows you the anticipated cost to operate.
    You guys must have magical heat pumps as I've had a hayward and a Jandy now and they work like garbage below 70 degrees air temp. In the winter here which is still likely warmer than what the OP will see in Summer in New Jersey, the heat pump flat our running 24 hours a day couldn't keep up to keep the pool at 80. Probably work a lot better if you can deal with using a pool cover all the time.
    8000 gal diamond brite pool with 650 gal spillover spa, Pentair 3hp VS pump. Jandy Cartridge filter and Jandy Heat Pump. Jandy PDA automation system with 2 Pentair Laminars. SmartPool NC74S Robotic Pool Cleaner.

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    Mod Squad pooldv's Avatar
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    Re: Heat Pump recommendations please ...

    Quote Originally Posted by ashmoussa View Post
    Super!!
    But I heard problems with the bubble type solar covers, with the bubbles disintegrating and getting into everything. Is that true?
    Thx Sean.
    Yes, that is true after their useful life is exceeded. Most of them have 5+ year warranties and will give you several years of service at least. Lot of discussions on TFP about what color, what thickness, etc. Give a search on solar cover for lots of info.
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    2012 build and pics, 20k gal gunite, black onyx pebblesheen, OK flagstone, IntellifoVS, cart filter w/Pleatco, IC40 SWG, Solartouch, 5 12'x4' solar panels, HP50HA heat pump, 8mil solar cover, borates, TF-100 test kit, SONOS, Doheny's Discovery Robot, hot tub on bleach

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    Mod Squad pooldv's Avatar
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    Re: Heat Pump recommendations please ...

    Quote Originally Posted by robl45 View Post
    You guys must have magical heat pumps as I've had a hayward and a Jandy now and they work like garbage below 70 degrees air temp. In the winter here which is still likely warmer than what the OP will see in Summer in New Jersey, the heat pump flat our running 24 hours a day couldn't keep up to keep the pool at 80. Probably work a lot better if you can deal with using a pool cover all the time.
    Interesting. I have always been skeptical about how well a heat pump would work and have not bought one yet. My solar panels definitely help quite a bit, but they don't cost much to operate. I would not be happy to spend the money on a heat pump and then spend $100-$300 or whatever per month to run it and still have a cold pool! Especially knowing that I am NOT going to use a solar cover.

    For example, if I was reasonably certain that I could spend $100-$150 per month in april, may, september and october and keep my pool at 85-87 degrees then I would buy a heat pump yesterday.

    But, I have read every heat pump thread on this forum and haven't found anyone who is thrilled with their heat pump and how cheap it is to run and how hot and steamy their pool is! (-:
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    2012 build and pics, 20k gal gunite, black onyx pebblesheen, OK flagstone, IntellifoVS, cart filter w/Pleatco, IC40 SWG, Solartouch, 5 12'x4' solar panels, HP50HA heat pump, 8mil solar cover, borates, TF-100 test kit, SONOS, Doheny's Discovery Robot, hot tub on bleach

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    ashmoussa's Avatar
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    Re: Heat Pump recommendations please ...

    I agree! I wouldn't want to buy a heat pump and spend money monthly to operate it to find that it is ineffective. That would suck!
    I wonder what others have to say about heat pumps with or without solar covers...
    May 2015: 17K Viking Caribbean Fiberglass IG pool (16'x40'), PAL lighting three 2T4 LED's (inside pool), Hayward DE 6020, Hayward Ecostar VS pump, SWG TCell15, Hayward HP21404T Heat Pump, Hayward Omnilogic automation + Sense & Dispense (HLCHEM).
    Rest of the backyard ideas/wish list: 12 x 20 Pergola, 48" Round Firepit, Accent/Landscape lighting, Outdoor movie theatre and music (projector & speakers), etc...

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    Re: Heat Pump recommendations please ...

    Quote Originally Posted by pooldv View Post
    Interesting. I have always been skeptical about how well a heat pump would work and have not bought one yet. My solar panels definitely help quite a bit, but they don't cost much to operate. I would not be happy to spend the money on a heat pump and then spend $100-$300 or whatever per month to run it and still have a cold pool! Especially knowing that I am NOT going to use a solar cover.

    For example, if I was reasonably certain that I could spend $100-$150 per month in april, may, september and october and keep my pool at 85-87 degrees then I would buy a heat pump yesterday.

    But, I have read every heat pump thread on this forum and haven't found anyone who is thrilled with their heat pump and how cheap it is to run and how hot and steamy their pool is! (-:
    The money will depend on your pump, the heat pump doesn't use all that much energy but the pump does, so if you have variable speed pump running at low setting, it will be much cheaper. My 1.5 hp pump running in winter trying to keep the pool warm my bill was 500 plus a month for electric when normally it would be 100 in winter. I'd say the heat pump probably cost 50 dollars or so to run, the pump though costs a fortune.
    8000 gal diamond brite pool with 650 gal spillover spa, Pentair 3hp VS pump. Jandy Cartridge filter and Jandy Heat Pump. Jandy PDA automation system with 2 Pentair Laminars. SmartPool NC74S Robotic Pool Cleaner.

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    Re: Heat Pump recommendations please ...

    I have a heat pump in erie pa and keep the water at 87 from may thru sept sometimes part of october.i put a solar cover on as soon as i am done swimming, works great.i do not however shut it off,i maintain the same water temp and let the heat pump cycle as needed.i always used a solar cover even at my old house which had a gas heated pool, cant afford to throw all that money away at night when the dollars just evaporate into the air.saves on chlorine and water too.
    16x32 vinyl ig with foxguard steel walls,gli liner ,hayward de filter,hayward heatpro heat pump,hayward colorlogic 4.0 led.pentair circular weir skimmers.hayward sharkvac xl robot,gli mesh cover.polk atrium speakers,sonos music system.erie pa.

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    ashmoussa's Avatar
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    Re: Heat Pump recommendations please ...

    So Loudonno, if you don't mind me asking, how large is your heat pump? And how much more do u pay in electric every month you use it?
    Thx.
    May 2015: 17K Viking Caribbean Fiberglass IG pool (16'x40'), PAL lighting three 2T4 LED's (inside pool), Hayward DE 6020, Hayward Ecostar VS pump, SWG TCell15, Hayward HP21404T Heat Pump, Hayward Omnilogic automation + Sense & Dispense (HLCHEM).
    Rest of the backyard ideas/wish list: 12 x 20 Pergola, 48" Round Firepit, Accent/Landscape lighting, Outdoor movie theatre and music (projector & speakers), etc...

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    Re: Heat Pump recommendations please ...

    The heat pump is around 120,000 btus.during the cooler months may sept sometimes oct. My electric bill goes up between 100-125 this includes the filter pump also.during the warmer months maybe an xtra 75-100.i run my pump on a timer 8 hrs a day .on initial startup in the spring i run it 24/7 until the pool reaches 87.(2-3 days) then i set the timer.elec rates are about 11-12 cent per kwh.this is with a solar cover.i set the timer from 9-5 which seems to be the warmest part of the day to maximize heat pump efficiency.on normal warm days it runs for about an hour or 2 in the morning until it reaches temp then shuts off.keep in mind i keep my pool at 87 (90 if having a party).keeping it cooler would reduce your energy costs.
    16x32 vinyl ig with foxguard steel walls,gli liner ,hayward de filter,hayward heatpro heat pump,hayward colorlogic 4.0 led.pentair circular weir skimmers.hayward sharkvac xl robot,gli mesh cover.polk atrium speakers,sonos music system.erie pa.

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    Re: Heat Pump recommendations please ...

    Quote Originally Posted by Loudonno View Post
    The heat pump is around 120,000 btus.during the cooler months may sept sometimes oct. My electric bill goes up between 100-125 this includes the filter pump also.during the warmer months maybe an xtra 75-100.i run my pump on a timer 8 hrs a day .on initial startup in the spring i run it 24/7 until the pool reaches 87.(2-3 days) then i set the timer.elec rates are about 11-12 cent per kwh.this is with a solar cover.i set the timer from 9-5 which seems to be the warmest part of the day to maximize heat pump efficiency.on normal warm days it runs for about an hour or 2 in the morning until it reaches temp then shuts off.keep in mind i keep my pool at 87 (90 if having a party).keeping it cooler would reduce your energy costs.
    Key point is with a solar cover. If you will religiously use the solar cover,then it could be effective in NJ. Also I would have an efficient pump. I know just turning my pump from 12 hours a day to 6 hours a day knocked almost 100 dollars off my electric bill.
    8000 gal diamond brite pool with 650 gal spillover spa, Pentair 3hp VS pump. Jandy Cartridge filter and Jandy Heat Pump. Jandy PDA automation system with 2 Pentair Laminars. SmartPool NC74S Robotic Pool Cleaner.

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    ashmoussa's Avatar
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    Re: Heat Pump recommendations please ...

    Thank you Loudonno and robl45! This is good stuff. I didn't think that having a VS pump, turning it on during warmer periods of the day only, and a solar cover would make such a big difference. ** Experience **
    May 2015: 17K Viking Caribbean Fiberglass IG pool (16'x40'), PAL lighting three 2T4 LED's (inside pool), Hayward DE 6020, Hayward Ecostar VS pump, SWG TCell15, Hayward HP21404T Heat Pump, Hayward Omnilogic automation + Sense & Dispense (HLCHEM).
    Rest of the backyard ideas/wish list: 12 x 20 Pergola, 48" Round Firepit, Accent/Landscape lighting, Outdoor movie theatre and music (projector & speakers), etc...

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