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Thread: Remodeling 1988 Freeform Pool in Dallas, TX

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    Kpag's Avatar
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    Remodeling 1988 Freeform Pool in Dallas, TX

    We are getting ready to remodel our existing pool built in 1988. We are in the DFW area. The original plaster is worn, the waterline mosaic tiles are popping off, the mastic failed years before we bought the house, and the brick coping has cracks in the grout. We are looking at travertine coping, glass waterline tile, and a Quartz finish. At least that's what I like. Maybe add automation? We have just started to get quotes and have been shocked at how expensive the things we like are. We were considering adding a water feature (wall at back of pool with sheer rain units) but are now wondering if it's worth the added cost or if it's the right design. I don't believe any of our equipment needs to be replaced (it's all relatively new). Anyone have any advice or suggestions? Pool pics and details below.

    image.jpgimage.jpg

    Below is some more specific info about our current pool:

    Freeform pool, built for volleyball?
    Perimeter: ~100 ft with in-ground spa
    Dimensions: ~24' x ~18'
    Depth: 3' to 5'
    In-ground circular spa with 5 jets, ~3.5' deep
    Plaster: white marcite? From 1988
    Tile: funky Spanish mosaic
    Coping: brownish brick pavers 8"
    Deck: hand applied concrete texture??
    2 skimmers
    5 returns
    Incandescent light in pool and spa, both work
    Cleaner: Hayward Phantom (dh keeps it running)
    Hayward Equipment:
    60 sq. ft DE filter, Pentair
    Ecostar Pump: variable speed
    Heater: Hayward H Series

    IG ~12000 gallon 1988 freeform pool with IG spa, Hayward equip, Ecostar pump. Remodel done: NPT Arctic 1x2 tile in Lagoon w/ gray thinset & Light Pewter grout, French Gray PebbleSheen w/ grey fittings, Leuders buff eased edge limestone coping w/ Light Buff mortar, buff mastic

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    Kpag's Avatar
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    Re: Remodeling 1988 Freeform Pool in Dallas, TX

    Forgot to add that we are replacing the fence too (probably before the pool remodel). The existing "not quite six feet" fence will be replaced with an 8 foot cedar board on board fence on top of a 1 foot rock retaining wall. Hopefully that will make the backdrop of the pool a little more attractive than our existing rundown fence. Oh, and we will also be boxing in the fence posts (we are required to face the good side out because we are on a corner).

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    Kpag's Avatar
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    Re: Remodeling 1988 Freeform Pool in Dallas, TX

    Any opinions on what the best coping is? Is leuders better than travertine? I really like cast concrete, but some pool guys say it looks dated and/or cheap. We are looking for a solid color coping or one without much variation because our brick is already "busy". Any reports from those who chose glass tile for waterline? Quartz experiences?
    IG ~12000 gallon 1988 freeform pool with IG spa, Hayward equip, Ecostar pump. Remodel done: NPT Arctic 1x2 tile in Lagoon w/ gray thinset & Light Pewter grout, French Gray PebbleSheen w/ grey fittings, Leuders buff eased edge limestone coping w/ Light Buff mortar, buff mastic

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    Divin Dave's Avatar
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    Re: Remodeling 1988 Freeform Pool in Dallas, TX

    Hi Kpag,

    Nice pool you have there! And yes, all of this pool stuff is more expensive than any of us care for!


    Both traveritne and luerders are very nice. Of course every batch will some different color variations, so the best advice I can give is look at both closely, and choose whichever you like best.
    As a side note: Both travertine and leuders limestone are susceptible to degradation if you intend on going saltwater.
    To remedy the stone degredation problem with saltwater, they should be sealed to prevent ingression of the saltwater into the stone. Resealing will be a every 2 year maintenance task. (same goes for flagstone).

    Cast concrete is definitely an alternative. I recokon the PB's dont like it as much because they probably make more money on the nicer materials. If you look around at some of the cast products online, there are many designs and available in earth tone colors, but are probably special order items.

    The natural materials are just plain ol' easier to get. But they will look nicer than any of the cast concrete.

    It would be difficult for me to comment on water feature that you like. Of course moss rock is an option, so is a raised wall with scuppers which are very nice.

    Most PB's these days can do a computer generation of your pool and be able to add in the different designs of water features so you can actually have an idea of what it will look like. So have your PB do that for you and hopefully that will make the decision easier.
    Divin Dave,
    IG Vinyl, 15' x 30', 3 1/2' - 6' deep, Oval, ~15K gal, Intelliclor IC40, Intelliflo VS pump, Clean and Clear 420 Filter, auto-fill-disabled, Retrofit LED Color Light, Dolphin Nautilus Robot, TF100 Test Kit, Taylor K1766 Salt Test Kit, Tftestkit Pressure Gauge.
    www.tftestkits.net Experience- it's what's learned just after you needed it most !!

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    Mod Squad pooldv's Avatar
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    Re: Remodeling 1988 Freeform Pool in Dallas, TX

    If you really like cast concrete then you should go for it. Good concrete contractors can do magical things with concrete. And concrete will definitely hold up better. Especially if it is cheaper.

    A smallish moss rock waterfall is nice for some ambient noise, but the aeration will definitely make your ph go up. My wife likes the waterfall on so I have to keep muriatic acid around. Too big of a waterfall will definitely make too much noise for conversation around the pool.

    Don't know about quartz or glass tile. We've got porcelain and pebblesheen. But, there are some really nice examples of glass tile used here and it is very nice.
    TFP Moderator
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    2012 build and pics, 20k gal gunite, black onyx pebblesheen, OK flagstone, IntellifoVS, cart filter w/Pleatco, IC40 SWG, Solartouch, 5 12'x4' solar panels, HP50HA heat pump, 8mil solar cover, borates, TF-100 test kit, SONOS, Doheny's Discovery Robot, hot tub on bleach

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    Re: Remodeling 1988 Freeform Pool in Dallas, TX

    We are in Plano and looking at a similar project. I've been getting quotes around $14K-16K kidney bean shaped 20000 gal pool. We have a big planter on one side so that has increased the charges on the stone work. We are looking at going with Leuders, Color Quartz Plaster and new tile. I hope some of these numbers help. I haven't decided who I am going with yet, still comparing numbers.
    Plano, TX
    20,000 gallons Kidney Bean IG Plaster, Pentair Clean and Clear 530 Cartridge Filter

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    Kpag's Avatar
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    Re: Remodeling 1988 Freeform Pool in Dallas, TX

    We are still in the "planning" stages. We keepnchanging our minds about what we want so it's been hard to compare quotes because we tell everyone something different. Right now we are having a small retaining wall put in along the back of the pool/yard and a new fence. Should be done this week and then we can think more about the pool project. At the moment, this is the water feature we are thinkng about adding along the back wall of the pool: elevating the walkway and adding the water feature(s) to the step. Second pool at link http://www.pbjc.com/renovations.html

    Everything else we have looked at would require giving up the walkway around the back of the pool; its just 44 inches from the pool shell to the new stone wall. I really don't want to lose that ability to walk all the way around the pool.

    Kriv, I'd love to hear about your project!
    IG ~12000 gallon 1988 freeform pool with IG spa, Hayward equip, Ecostar pump. Remodel done: NPT Arctic 1x2 tile in Lagoon w/ gray thinset & Light Pewter grout, French Gray PebbleSheen w/ grey fittings, Leuders buff eased edge limestone coping w/ Light Buff mortar, buff mastic

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    Re: Remodeling 1988 Freeform Pool in Dallas, TX

    I would suggest doing the pool remodel first, then the fence. That way you don't have to worry about it getting banged up from all of the construction work going on around the pool. Also, the pool remodelers could remove a section of it to make getting debris out easier, and again you won't need to worry much about damage to it.
    1982 built 15K? gallon IG gunite/plaster, DE filter, Pentair Challenger 1.5HP pump, Polaris 280, Pentair LA01N booster pump, 3-8' with diving board, K-2006 test kit

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    Re: Remodeling 1988 Freeform Pool in Dallas, TX

    Kpag:

    Do your research on the PB and renovation options. We just went through this, and were advised by a PB that depending on what we wanted there were "ways" to save some cash. Definitely wait for fence until renovations are completed. Your yard, patio, etc will be a mess during the remodel no matter how careful the contractors are. We had a bids for regular colored plaster, and for Pebble Sheen. Ultimately after seeing many pools and reading reviews all over the web (including at TFP), we decided on the Pebble Sheen product (Blue Granite). If you are going with a pebble product, there is only one contractor in Dallas and one in FT Worth. Also 1 in Ft Worth for Wet Edge. All the custom PB's use these 3 options for the Pebble products which by the way also do the regular plaster product also. We found out we could same some cash by receiving bids direct from those contractors. We were happy to save the cash because it gave us an option to use the saved cash for other features. We graphed out what we knew we wanted, and showed the pictures to renov contractor, then waited for the bids for comparison. Don't be afraid to ask a lot of questions. Also, like many on here have said...itemize as much as possible with details. It does help with the comparisons.

    It also helps to be home when they are building anything extra regardless of who the PB contractors are. I were amazed how somehow some detail gets lost in translation, and had to watch the work-a-be critters, and it helped that our superintendent over the job could complete a sentence in English! The work-a-be's don't have to live with their misunderstanding, but home owners do! A good relationship with the build supervisor is helpful.

    Also, watching the pebble installation process was one of the most interesting procedures I've seen. The crew we had were truly artists. They were efficient, and cleaned up completely after themselves.

    As said above..SWG is the way to go if possible. We had a pool with OK Flagstone, and did experience the shedding that other mention above. We tried sealing with mixed luck. However, we did love the look of the natural rock.

    Also no matter what they tell you, add a week or two to the completion date. Weather always seems to delay a project the minute you start. Just Murphy's Law.

    Looking forward to watching you transformation. Post lots of pictures for us backyard lurkers. I just admit I love learning from what others have done. Good luck, and early congrats for summer pool time.

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    Re: Remodeling 1988 Freeform Pool in Dallas, TX

    We should get started on our remodel in next two weeks. I'll share pictures through the process.
    Plano, TX
    20,000 gallons Kidney Bean IG Plaster, Pentair Clean and Clear 530 Cartridge Filter

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    Kpag's Avatar
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    Re: Remodeling 1988 Freeform Pool in Dallas, TX

    OK, it's embarrassing but we are ......still...... not done with this pool. We kinds of gave up last year as the weather got hotter and hotter. But niw we REALLY need to get cracking because little chunks have started falling off and there is a (hopefully) surface crack. So, we did get the new retaining wall and fence done last year. I think we have (some) of our choices made: noce eased edge tumbled travertine coping, Noble AIM glass tile in turquoise 1x2 and possibly Jewlescapes surface in Aruba Sky. Here are some recent pictures with new fence and choices. Sorry for how dirty the pool is, yikes!


    IG ~12000 gallon 1988 freeform pool with IG spa, Hayward equip, Ecostar pump. Remodel done: NPT Arctic 1x2 tile in Lagoon w/ gray thinset & Light Pewter grout, French Gray PebbleSheen w/ grey fittings, Leuders buff eased edge limestone coping w/ Light Buff mortar, buff mastic

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    Mod Squad pooldv's Avatar
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    Re: Remodeling 1988 Freeform Pool in Dallas, TX

    That is going to be nice!
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    2012 build and pics, 20k gal gunite, black onyx pebblesheen, OK flagstone, IntellifoVS, cart filter w/Pleatco, IC40 SWG, Solartouch, 5 12'x4' solar panels, HP50HA heat pump, 8mil solar cover, borates, TF-100 test kit, SONOS, Doheny's Discovery Robot, hot tub on bleach

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    Kpag's Avatar
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    Re: Remodeling 1988 Freeform Pool in Dallas, TX

    Founds some pics of the 1x2 iridescent turquoise glass tile we are going to use for the waterline and spa wall. It's from Artistry in Mosaics, GP82348B2. All the pictures I have seen were of the 1x1, but I have my heart set on the mini-subway.


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    IG ~12000 gallon 1988 freeform pool with IG spa, Hayward equip, Ecostar pump. Remodel done: NPT Arctic 1x2 tile in Lagoon w/ gray thinset & Light Pewter grout, French Gray PebbleSheen w/ grey fittings, Leuders buff eased edge limestone coping w/ Light Buff mortar, buff mastic

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    Re: Remodeling 1988 Freeform Pool in Dallas, TX

    Your selections are gorgeous!!!! That glass tile is to die for and it looks great with the plaster finish you chose. I have the Travertine coping and love it. It's nice and cool in the hot summer sun (but mine is one of the lightest Travertines). Also, I have the honed and filled which your sample looks like it is. I have the tumbled Travertine for decking which means it has a lot of smallish open holes, etc - not great for coping.

    Are you still planning on using the glass tile for the waterline?

    Ya'll have such a lovely backyard! I love all the brick work on your house, the brick planters, and the closeness of everything. Very nice for bringing people together or just relaxing on your own. The shape of the pool seems perfect back there.

    In March you were thinking about the raised walkway with a water feature behind the pool. Is that still in the plans? I'm like you, I had to have a walkway all around the pool including the back. It still surprises me that the landscaper didn't seem to understand my need for that. When I'm brushing the pool or weeding the beds, it makes life that much easier.

    Your new fence looks awesome! I would post several signs (English and Spanish) on it telling the subs to be careful!!! What else have ya'll decided on? I love watching remodels!

    I know you're eager for progress! We're eager to see the progress, too!

    Suz
    Suz~Cypress area~ 2015 pool build. 23K gallons. IG swcg system. 35'x18'; 573sf; 104' perim; depth 4'-7'. Bubblers, sheer descents, 7' spa. Jandy: color LEDs; 2HP 2sp pump; 1HP 2sp pump; spa pump; 580 cartridge; 400K BTU; Dolphin M500; PS8; Inline chlorinator not used; Aqua Pure 1400. Blue Granite Sheen. Travertine deck. Lightstreams Peacock Blue TF-100, K-1766, SpeedStir

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    Re: Remodeling 1988 Freeform Pool in Dallas, TX

    Love your comments Suz!!
    18'x38' Rectangle (3'-8 1/2' deep w/ diving board) - 27K gal. w/ gray plaster
    Hayward equipment (cartridge filter, 2-speed pump, SWCG, automation) View Our Build
    Coverstar automatic pool cover | StoneMakers concrete retaining wall and decking
    Spring 2013 Build | Dolphin Active 20 robot cleaner | Support TFP!

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    Re: Remodeling 1988 Freeform Pool in Dallas, TX

    Quote Originally Posted by bmoreswim View Post
    Love your comments Suz!!
    Thanks Bmore! But my posts should always come with a warning...... "She's ok on the fluff stuff or personal experience. Very weak on anything technical. Proceed with caution."

    Suz
    Suz~Cypress area~ 2015 pool build. 23K gallons. IG swcg system. 35'x18'; 573sf; 104' perim; depth 4'-7'. Bubblers, sheer descents, 7' spa. Jandy: color LEDs; 2HP 2sp pump; 1HP 2sp pump; spa pump; 580 cartridge; 400K BTU; Dolphin M500; PS8; Inline chlorinator not used; Aqua Pure 1400. Blue Granite Sheen. Travertine deck. Lightstreams Peacock Blue TF-100, K-1766, SpeedStir

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    Re: Remodeling 1988 Freeform Pool in Dallas, TX

    Ha!

    Kpag, love the tiles!
    18'x38' Rectangle (3'-8 1/2' deep w/ diving board) - 27K gal. w/ gray plaster
    Hayward equipment (cartridge filter, 2-speed pump, SWCG, automation) View Our Build
    Coverstar automatic pool cover | StoneMakers concrete retaining wall and decking
    Spring 2013 Build | Dolphin Active 20 robot cleaner | Support TFP!

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    Mod Squad kimkats's Avatar
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    Re: Remodeling 1988 Freeform Pool in Dallas, TX

    Those tiles, oh those tiles..............BLING! And I LOVE, LOVE, LOVE the subway in stead of the 1x1!

    Kim
    TFP Moderator 33x52 round AG 25,600 gals Sand Filter 1.5hp Pump - 2 Speed, SLAM, Pool School, Recommended Levels, Recommended Chemicals, Pool Math, Chlorine/CYA Chart, TF-100 Test Kit

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