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Thread: Inground Vinyl Remodel Questions/Advice

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    Inground Vinyl Remodel Questions/Advice

    We have a pool that is a 16' x 32' inground with vinyl liner. The pool was installed about 25 years ago, the liner was replaced at least 10 years ago probably before then. Vertical walls are poured concrete, then the slanted walls and floor is I would guess compacted sand.

    Here is what we are looking to do:
    - New vinyl liner
    - Redo and expand the deck with either stamped concrete or pavers.
    - Install a salt water generator.
    - Considering having sand dug up and replaced with vermiculite sides/bottom.
    - We need a new safety cover for winter.

    Some questions:

    1. Liner colors - The brand my local pool company installs is called VynAll. They have collections that are grouped by: Light, Medium, Dark. This based on how dark or light blue you want the water to look. Anyone have experience with these colors and want to post a picture or two to show?

    2. Liner thickness. standard is 20 mil, all colors have option of 28 mil for about $350 more. Does the thicker liner make sense? With what this whole thing is gonna cost, $350 doesn't bother me too much.

    3. Stamped concrete vs Pavers - We like the look of both. Stamped concrete is significantly more expensive than pavers. But the pool construction company only works with stamped concrete, so if we went with pavers we'd have to bring in a second contractor. Any strong feeling for/against pavers or stamped concrete?

    4. Salt Water Generator - Got a ballpark quote for $3,000 which includes installation. I know prices vary around the country, but for some reason thought it was a bit high.

    5. Vermiculite - I'm not even sure if my pool construction company suggests this or not, the conversation hasn't gotten that far yet. I've just been reading up about it. I might be inclined to just do whatever they suggest.

    Just curious if anyone has any opinions on any of the above, or if there are any "gotchas" I should be thinking about or asking about.

    Max
    - Max
    __________________________________
    20k gal, inground vinyl, 1 1/2 HP Hayward SuperPump, HW Veriflow XL Sand Filter, Hayward Aqua Rite T-Cell-9, AquaComfort Heat Pump ACT-1100
    Hayward TigerShark robotic cleaner

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    Killer95Stang's Avatar
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    Re: Inground Vinyl Remodel Questions/Advice

    $3000.00 seems extremely high for a salt water chlorine generator. You figure $1000.00 for top brand generator with power supply. Not sure what the other $2000.00 would be for besides a new truck payment for the PB. I know I'm on the lower side of concrete deck costs, but my PB charged me $7.00 per sq ft for 1000 sq ft of colored and stamped concrete. Other quotes were in the $10 range.
    Pool done!! (backyard = work in progress) 32' x 19' inground freeform with 7' spa, baja step w/ (2) bubblers, stonescapes mini pebble finish, rock waterfall feature, 12" raised bond beam, Intelliflo VS, Whisperflo feature pump, (3) 5G Color LED's, FNS + DE 60, 400K Master Temp, Easytouch 8 w/ remote, Intellichlor IC40, Vision Classic Ceramic Kamado smoker, Margaritaville DM1000!!! Party Coming Soon!!
    TF-100 Test Kit w/ Speedstir

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    Re: Inground Vinyl Remodel Questions/Advice

    2. It really doesn't seem to matter much for longevity. Even though it's not much money, I see little benefit in the 28 ml liners.

    3. Stamped concrete can be quite slicj when wet....a definite disadvantage

    5. Vermiculite or sand probably should be whatever your remodeler is most comfortable with. Vermiculite seems to perform a little better but not by much.
    Dave S.
    42k vinyl and concrete pool, 1.5hp pump, 140gpm filter
    TFTestkits , PoolMath , Pool School

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    n240sxguy's Avatar
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    Re: Inground Vinyl Remodel Questions/Advice

    What kind of swg are they quoting? Some of them can get that high, but for your size pool, that's about double what it should be. Maybe more. A Pentair IC60 can be had for about $980 online. Install shouldn't cost $500 unless they are running new electric service to it or something.


    30K gallon IG vinyl. 1.5HP 2-speed Waterway Mustang pump. 600 lb sand filter. Polaris 280. Circupool SI-60+. TF-100

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    Divin Dave's Avatar
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    Re: Inground Vinyl Remodel Questions/Advice

    Hi MT,
    I think I can help you with some of your questions.

    1&2 Liner - I have a Vynall liner. My liner is a medium blue. Pic below to show a true representation of the color. I also opted for the 28/20 mil. The sides are 28, they are the most likely to get torn. The bottom is 20. I like it.
    One thing to note. If the PB will tell vynall where your steps are at, vynall will build the seam in the area of the steps which will be cut out during install. AND if the install guys are aware that the seam goes where the steps are and installs it properly, then you dont end up with an unsightly seam on a conspicuous part of the pool wall.

    3. Stamped concrete vs pavers are only as good and attractive as the people who installs it. Both are very acceptable if installed properly. The concrete needs to also have control joints in it, which may sort of make the stamping of it a more intensive task so the joints dont deter from the attraction of the stamping. The concrete will eventually crack. The purpose of the control joints is hopefully, make the concrete crack in the joint, and not be visible to the eye.

    4. 3000 seems very high to me. The systems are around 1000-1200 retail online. If you are handy at all, Its a very easy DIY so, you might consider doing this yourself and save yourself a bunch of money.

    5. Sand bottoms are prone to heel prints when walking on the bottom. Other than that, I dont know much about sand bottoms. Vermiculite is very very diffult to install and end up with a really smooth finish. Here again, the experience factor comes into play when dealing with Vermiculite. My pool bottom is vermiculite, and the guys tried hard to get it to look great. But at night, with the pool light on..well... every imperfection, bump and depression is visible. I overcome that bit of disappointment by having my pump running so that water tension on the surface is broken, this softens the imperfections of the bottom.



    Divin Dave,
    IG Vinyl, 15' x 30', 3 1/2' - 6' deep, Oval, ~15K gal, Intelliclor IC40, Intelliflo VS pump, Clean and Clear 420 Filter, auto-fill-disabled, Retrofit LED Color Light, Dolphin Nautilus Robot, TF100 Test Kit, Taylor K1766 Salt Test Kit, Tftestkit Pressure Gauge.
    www.tftestkits.net Experience- it's what's learned just after you needed it most !!

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    Re: Inground Vinyl Remodel Questions/Advice

    Thanks for all the feedback guys! I'll have to ask around for some quotes on a SWG from some other local places and see what they charge. Although I do not know the brand/model I was initially quoted. Dave, that blue liner looks great! Actually, your whole yard looks awesome. For stamped concrete I got a quote for $10 per sq ft, so I'm going to have a landscaping company come in and give me a quote for pavers.

    I might be back with more questions.
    - Max
    __________________________________
    20k gal, inground vinyl, 1 1/2 HP Hayward SuperPump, HW Veriflow XL Sand Filter, Hayward Aqua Rite T-Cell-9, AquaComfort Heat Pump ACT-1100
    Hayward TigerShark robotic cleaner

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    Re: Inground Vinyl Remodel Questions/Advice

    My PB gave me this advice about liners. There is a slight benefit to the 28 mil versus the 20 mil, but make sure you consider cost. His opinion is that if you pay for the thicker liner, and it does last a bit longer (maybe a season or 2) are you going to be happy with that season. His reasoning is that in many cases, the liner will bleach to white before it fails. So are you going to be happy with an extra year or two out of the liner if the color quality is good. His experience was that eh replaces lots of liners that have not yet failed, but are simply too bleached out and look bad. He also mentioned something about the thicker liners being harder to get to stretch properly, and that the thicker liners dont always get into the corners properly.

    As far as stamped concrete goes, one word of note is that it is not a maintenance free product in most cases. Cleaning and sealing have to be kept up with to make it look good long term

    - - - Updated - - -

    Also, I have the Medium Blue Mosaic. Could not be happier with it, and it looks fantastic. sadly I don't have a photo as my pool was installed in August, so I didn't have it long before I had to winterize it.
    IG W/Vinyl Liner Oval 18x40, 21K gal, Oval 3'-8'
    Pentair Intelliflo VS Pump, Sand Filter

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    Divin Dave's Avatar
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    Re: Inground Vinyl Remodel Questions/Advice

    Hi Yev,
    Im sure a lot of liners do "bleach out" seemingly prematurely, however I think the untold part of that story is that premature bleaching is more of a result of pool water chemistry than it is age.

    That said, though, all vinyl liners will eventually need to be replaced, but good chemistry can make the color last a lot longer with proper pool chemistry.


    Quote Originally Posted by Yev View Post
    My PB gave me this advice about liners. There is a slight benefit to the 28 mil versus the 20 mil, but make sure you consider cost. His opinion is that if you pay for the thicker liner, and it does last a bit longer (maybe a season or 2) are you going to be happy with that season. His reasoning is that in many cases, the liner will bleach to white before it fails. So are you going to be happy with an extra year or two out of the liner if the color quality is good. His experience was that eh replaces lots of liners that have not yet failed, but are simply too bleached out and look bad. He also mentioned something about the thicker liners being harder to get to stretch properly, and that the thicker liners dont always get into the corners properly.

    As far as stamped concrete goes, one word of note is that it is not a maintenance free product in most cases. Cleaning and sealing have to be kept up with to make it look good long term

    - - - Updated - - -

    Also, I have the Medium Blue Mosaic. Could not be happier with it, and it looks fantastic. sadly I don't have a photo as my pool was installed in August, so I didn't have it long before I had to winterize it.
    Divin Dave,
    IG Vinyl, 15' x 30', 3 1/2' - 6' deep, Oval, ~15K gal, Intelliclor IC40, Intelliflo VS pump, Clean and Clear 420 Filter, auto-fill-disabled, Retrofit LED Color Light, Dolphin Nautilus Robot, TF100 Test Kit, Taylor K1766 Salt Test Kit, Tftestkit Pressure Gauge.
    www.tftestkits.net Experience- it's what's learned just after you needed it most !!

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    Divin Dave's Avatar
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    Re: Inground Vinyl Remodel Questions/Advice

    Thanks for the compliment Max
    man I tell ya, I worked my @@@ off on my backyard. Im still working on it too! Most of what you see there is what I did myself. Including the pool.

    that flower bed border is coming out in the next week or two and Im going to build a small 2 course retaining wall to contain the flower bed. Hoping the weather will cooperate so I can get that project outta my hair.

    Come on back if you have more questions. We'll be glad to help out if we can.


    Quote Originally Posted by MT View Post
    Thanks for all the feedback guys! I'll have to ask around for some quotes on a SWG from some other local places and see what they charge. Although I do not know the brand/model I was initially quoted. Dave, that blue liner looks great! Actually, your whole yard looks awesome. For stamped concrete I got a quote for $10 per sq ft, so I'm going to have a landscaping company come in and give me a quote for pavers.

    I might be back with more questions.
    Divin Dave,
    IG Vinyl, 15' x 30', 3 1/2' - 6' deep, Oval, ~15K gal, Intelliclor IC40, Intelliflo VS pump, Clean and Clear 420 Filter, auto-fill-disabled, Retrofit LED Color Light, Dolphin Nautilus Robot, TF100 Test Kit, Taylor K1766 Salt Test Kit, Tftestkit Pressure Gauge.
    www.tftestkits.net Experience- it's what's learned just after you needed it most !!

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    PoolESQ's Avatar
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    Re: Inground Vinyl Remodel Questions/Advice

    I had stamped concrete in my last pool and loved it. Easy to maintain. A non-slip additive can be poured into the sealer that significantly reduces slippage. Also works well with SWG as some natural stone pavers will be negatively affected by the salt. The SWG quote is way out there, in my opinion. I just purchased a full autopilot control system (SWG plus pump for automatic dispensing of muriatic acid for PH control) for $3200. PB charged $650 for install.
    Replastered 2015: Sunstone Quartz Midnight Blue 16x32 rectangular gunite with in-pool spa....18,000 gallons. Autopilot Total Control System with SWG and acid pump. Pentair Clean & Clear 420. Auto cover. TF-100.

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    Re: Inground Vinyl Remodel Questions/Advice

    Quote Originally Posted by Divin Dave View Post
    Hi Yev,
    Im sure a lot of liners do "bleach out" seemingly prematurely, however I think the untold part of that story is that premature bleaching is more of a result of pool water chemistry than it is age.

    That said, though, all vinyl liners will eventually need to be replaced, but good chemistry can make the color last a lot longer with proper pool chemistry.
    Dave, maybe I should not have used the term bleached out in my description. Obviously poor chemistry will effect vinyl. However, the greatest cause of liner fade is UV light. The same sunlight that gives us a tan will also fade the liner
    IG W/Vinyl Liner Oval 18x40, 21K gal, Oval 3'-8'
    Pentair Intelliflo VS Pump, Sand Filter

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