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Thread: New Pool Quote -- Questions

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    corporate_zombie's Avatar
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    New Pool Quote -- Questions

    First, thanks to everyone on this forum, I've been here for the last few months learning and trying to absorb all the fantastic information. Our last two houses have had pools, and to be very honest I always struggled with them turning green/bad water chemistry. BUT, with all of that…when we moved to our third house, we missed not having a pool so much that we decided to "take the plunge". I feel so much more confident knowing that with TFP I will be able to take care of my pool the RIGHT way! Because this is really our first pool to build - I feel overwhelmed, before we just had what we had and there wasn't anything we could do! Now, we have all these decisions. We finally narrowed down to a builder, and feel good about them. Here are some general specs:

    Pool Size: 20' x 36'
    Perimeter 100 lnft
    Depth: 3.5' to 6'
    Area: 534 sqft
    Spa: 7' round, 12' raised/3' stacked stone spillway
    6 hydrojets/1 3' channel drain, bench split level


    Equipment:
    pool pump: Pentair Intelliflo 4 x160 High performance pump
    Cleaner pump: 3/4 HP
    Filter: 420 sqft Pentair Cartridge Filter
    Chlorinator: Pentair 320 Rainbow
    Blower 1HP Silencer
    Heater: Pentair 400,000 BTU
    Cleaner Pentair Racer
    Controls: Dual Intermatic Timer with Freeze Guard

    873 sqft Deck either Peagravel or spray deck (we are going with Peagravel)
    1 ton of moss rock weeping wall


    Obviously, there are more details in the quote…but I don't want to bore everyone with the specifics…yet…Anyway, here is my question. Is the filter large enough? I thought I remembered seeing a formula for sizing your filter correctly on the boards, but I have looked for the last hour and can't find it…and finally gave up. I do have computer generated pictures, but they have the PB name on them, not sure if I am allowed to post those.

    Also, another question (and causing much stress for me). We had several builders come out and quote. I feel that the PB we selected quoted a very fair price -- and in comparing with the other quotes, I am really struggling where/what to negotiate. Instead of just saying, can you take $X off the price, I wanted to go back with something specific. Are there certain areas where there is always a little fat, that make it easier to have the negotiation discussion? I know I sound like a novice here, I am…so whatever help you can offer, I am super appreciative of it!!!

    Thanks so much!

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    pwrstrk's Avatar
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    New Pool Quote -- Questions

    Welcome to TFP !
    I can't help you out too much with the quote, but others will be along. As for your filter you can't really go too big with a cart filter. Bigger is better with the filter. Less cleaning.
    In the mean time do some reading in Pool School when you get a chance.
    Here are some good articles to start you out with.
    ABC'S Of Pool Water Chemistry
    How To Chlorinate Your Pool
    Now after your pool is up and running your going to need one of these Test Kits to keep your water sparkly and all your levels in their proper ranges.
    Good luck on your build and don't forget to post pictures when it starts. Any questions you have don't hesitate to ask !
    Jeff
    24'x54" AG Morada RTR (by wilbar) 13'500 gal. Hayward Powerflo Matrix 1hp 2 speed. Hayward Perflex EC65 DE filter.

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    Re: New Pool Quote -- Questions

    Welcome to TFP!

    Have you gone through the pool school articles yet?

    The reason I ask is because I see you are configured with a Pentair 320 Rainbow which uses Trichlor and unless you plan on draining your pool frequently we generally don't recommend using Trichlor as a primary sanitizer. It will be good for backup like while you're on vacation but even then you need to be sure you don't overdo it with the CYA.

    Grats on finding a PB and good luck with your build. And be sure to get as much as possible in writing. If you have any questions, well, that's what TFP is for !
    14K Freeform Gunite w/60% Blue Quartz plaster, Quad DE filter, Intelliflo VS Pump + Booster for Cleaner, Aquacal Heat Pump

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    corporate_zombie's Avatar
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    Re: New Pool Quote -- Questions

    Zethacat,
    Yes -- I noticed that about the Rainbow Chlorinator thing -- it was on my question list for the PB, I wasn't sure if that was tabs or what…but you answered my unasked question. Well, hey!, there is a negotiation point…removing that!! Whoop!

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    JayBauman's Avatar
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    Re: New Pool Quote -- Questions

    The filter size is fine for your pool.

    But.....you will want the largest one that you can get to increase the Mean Time Between Cleanings. Tell the PB you want a bigger one. You'll be thankful for the next xxx years that you did.
    23' x 37' IG 18.5k gallon SWG w/ raised spa, Build Thread -->Here
    Wet Edge® Pearl Matrix®, Hayward® SwimClear™ 525 ft², Hayward® Goldline Controls® PS-8
    4x Hayward® TriStar™ pumps, Paramount PCC2000® ICS, TF-100 w/Speedstir

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    JasonLion's Avatar
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    Re: New Pool Quote -- Questions

    Those equipment choices are reasonable. Yes, the filter is large enough. Though a slightly larger filter might be nice, it is hardly essential.

    You might want to ask this builder if you really need the booster pump. It may be possible to run the cleaner without a booster pump, which would be more energy efficient.

    Even though we don't recommend using chlorine tablets, it can be nice to have a tablet feeder. They are handy during pool startup and when you are going on vacation.

    There is probably a lot of money in the moss rock weeping wall, removing that could cut the price down significantly. Of course they look wonderful, so a potentially difficult decision.

    I don't see anything about the pool surface. Is this assuming plain white plaster?
    19K gal, vinyl, 1/2 HP WhisperFlo pump, 200 sqft cartridge filter, AutoPilot Digital SWG, Dolphin Dynamic cleaning robot
    Creator of PoolMath and Pool Calculator. Other handy links: Support this site, TF Test Kits, Pool School

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    Divin Dave's Avatar
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    Re: New Pool Quote -- Questions

    Have you considered a Saltwater Pool? Super easy to chlorinate and maintain! I agree with others, you dont want to use the Rainbow 320 for your main chlorination source. If consider a SWG, the Pentair IC40 would work for you. Optionally, based on my estimate of your pool w/ spa at about 24000 gallons, you might even consider an IC60 which would allow you to run the SWG at a lower percentage and pump at a lower run time. Doing so would increase the lifespan of the salt cell.

    Regarding the cleaner, you might consider Xing out the Polaris and going with a Robot? Nothing wrong with the 380, its a good proven unit. The Robot is more energy efficient than the pump to run the polaris and you dont have to fool with the "tail" that the 380 has and a robot is considerably easier to the clean the filters (depending on the model).

    Here is some reading on the subject. The Dolphins have a very good reputation. Im sure some others do to, but I am biased when it comes to robots.
    http://www.troublefreepool.com/forums/50-Pool-Cleaners
    Divin Dave,
    IG Vinyl, 15' x 30', 3 1/2' - 6' deep, Oval, ~15K gal, Intelliclor IC40, Intelliflo VS pump, Clean and Clear 420 Filter, auto-fill-disabled, Retrofit LED Color Light, Dolphin Nautilus Robot, TF100 Test Kit, Taylor K1766 Salt Test Kit, Tftestkit Pressure Gauge.
    www.tftestkits.net Experience- it's what's learned just after you needed it most !!

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    Re: New Pool Quote -- Questions

    Quote Originally Posted by Divin Dave View Post
    Have you considered a Saltwater Pool? Super easy to chlorinate and maintain!
    Go for the saltwater, feels better on skin (especially if you add borates), does NOT taste like salt (just not enough there to taste), is super easy to maintain, but most importantly, you will not get that "chlorine" smell that irritates your eyes (i.e.- combined chlorine or CC or whatever the proper name is).

    Bleach it baby, bleach it!
    Home pool: Intex 11,400 gallon AG vinyl pool with sand filter & SWG. Taylor K-2006 test kit - coastal Georgia. I'm also in charge of the Elk's Lodge Pool, which is 55,000 gallons in-ground concrete with sand filter, 2 HP Hayward pump, currently using tri-chlor pucks and cal-hypo system.

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    Re: New Pool Quote -- Questions

    Who did you end up picking to build your pool? Any pool renderings?

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    rodog123's Avatar
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    Re: New Pool Quote -- Questions

    Howdy Neighbor,

    Ask PB to break down cost per square foot of decking, this is a good place to start and negotiate more decking around pool.

    -Ask for a landscapping allowance (cost for 7-8 pallets of grass = 1K)
    -PB should be able to add umbrella/volleyball deck holes for free.
    - If you are going to run gas/electricity for an outdoor kitchen Now is the time to do it.
    - I had electrician run a GFCI outlet behind the pool for landscape lighting. PB allowed me to negotiate directly with electrician.

    Hope this helps!
    Completed 38'X21' IG Free form pool approx 18.5K gallons, sports pool w/spa and tanning shelf 3.5-5.5 ft. Jandy Cartridge Filter, Jandy stealth pumps, Jandy LXi Heater, I aqualink, Inline chlorinator. Click to see My Pool Build

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    corporate_zombie's Avatar
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    Re: New Pool Quote -- Questions

    Quote Originally Posted by JayBauman View Post
    The filter size is fine for your pool.

    But.....you will want the largest one that you can get to increase the Mean Time Between Cleanings. Tell the PB you want a bigger one. You'll be thankful for the next xxx years that you did.

    Thank you JayBauman -- I am asking the PB today on the price difference with the bigger filter...

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by JasonLion View Post
    There is probably a lot of money in the moss rock weeping wall, removing that could cut the price down significantly. Of course they look wonderful, so a potentially difficult decision.

    I don't see anything about the pool surface. Is this assuming plain white plaster?
    JasonLion -- I know <sigh> we actually had the first quote with NOTHING extra...just a pool. But, I kept coming back to the pictures of tropical oasis looking pools...I'm a sucker for advertising! The weeping rocks only added $1K (wait, did I just say ONLY!!!!!????? ), and I just think it breaks up the decking nicely. I don't want it to look like my driveway out there with all that concrete!
    The pool surface is going to be pebble sheen or pebble tech, our choice Tier I...I think we are leaning towards the Pebblesheen.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by rodog123 View Post
    Howdy Neighbor,

    Ask PB to break down cost per square foot of decking, this is a good place to start and negotiate more decking around pool.

    -Ask for a landscapping allowance (cost for 7-8 pallets of grass = 1K)
    -PB should be able to add umbrella/volleyball deck holes for free.
    - If you are going to run gas/electricity for an outdoor kitchen Now is the time to do it.
    - I had electrician run a GFCI outlet behind the pool for landscape lighting. PB allowed me to negotiate directly with electrician.

    Hope this helps!
    Yes! That helps, thank you so much for your response. I'm going to redact the PB name on my drawings and then post them out here -- I am thinking we need to push the pool a few more feet and that means more deck...and I want it to not cost too much. You are right, I need to get everything thrown in now, and get it the way I want...and think about what I am planning for in the future, to make it easier/do-able!
    Thanks!!!

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    Re: New Pool Quote -- Questions

    Quote Originally Posted by Vince-1961 View Post
    but most importantly, you will not get that "chlorine" smell that irritates your eyes (i.e.- combined chlorine or CC or whatever the proper name is).
    I have no automatic chlorinator. I don't get any smell nor eye irritation because I maintain the proper level of FC in my pool.
    14K Freeform Gunite w/60% Blue Quartz plaster, Quad DE filter, Intelliflo VS Pump + Booster for Cleaner, Aquacal Heat Pump

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    Patrick_B's Avatar
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    Re: New Pool Quote -- Questions

    It's hard to get too big a filter. Especially with cart filters. I over sized mine, and it was a great choice. I have sand but the PB didn't agree on the size, and I love having it. Having to backwash less isn't a bad thing to us. No help to you, but it would mean less frequent cleanings.

    If you follow what we teach here, your days of a green and dirty pool will be over. That I promise you.
    TFP Moderator
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    ABC's Of Pool Chemistry, Test Kits, SLAM Your Pool
    28K Gal IG FreeForm, CLI Quartz, Pentair 36"SF & VS Pump, Dolphin M5, Rheem

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    corporate_zombie's Avatar
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    Re: New Pool Quote -- Questions

    Quote Originally Posted by Brushpup View Post
    It's hard to get too big a filter. Especially with cart filters. I over sized mine, and it was a great choice. I have sand but the PB didn't agree on the size, and I love having it. Having to backwash less isn't a bad thing to us. No help to you, but it would mean less frequent cleanings.

    If you follow what we teach here, your days of a green and dirty pool will be over. That I promise you.
    I checked with our PB of "choice" (nothing is signed yet...) yesterday -- he said upgrading to the 520 filter (he quoted us the 420 filter) would be about $200 more. Small in the scheme of things...but OMG, when I look at the total quote I keep have heart palpitations. He told me he would do whatever I wanted, but the 420 would be fine b/c we have no dogs that will be swimming in the pool, and no organic matter to fall into the pool (and I plan to keep the crepe myrtles far, far away...like out front). I appreciate everyones' help with this...I'll probably go up a size...unless I keep adding/upgrading other fancy stuff

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    Re: New Pool Quote -- Questions

    I need to move to TX...8 pallets of sod is 3600 sq ft, here that would cost between $5500 and $7200 installed!!
    18k: IG: Black Granite Liner: Aspen: 16x33.5: SWG: Polaris 280

    My pool build new-pool-build-in-nh-t60957.html

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    Mod Squad pooldv's Avatar
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    Re: New Pool Quote -- Questions

    it's warmer too!
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    2012 build and pics, 20k gal gunite, black onyx pebblesheen, OK flagstone, IntellifoVS, cart filter w/Pleatco, IC40 SWG, Solartouch, 5 12'x4' solar panels, HP50HA heat pump, 8mil solar cover, borates, TF-100 test kit, SONOS, Doheny's Discovery Robot, hot tub on bleach

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    Re: New Pool Quote -- Questions

    Quote Originally Posted by doobs41378 View Post
    I need to move to TX...8 pallets of sod is 3600 sq ft, here that would cost between $5500 and $7200 installed!!
    Yea we have Floratam in the south which i believe is super cheap to grow. Very hardy sod, but prone to crab grass and weeds.
    Completed 38'X21' IG Free form pool approx 18.5K gallons, sports pool w/spa and tanning shelf 3.5-5.5 ft. Jandy Cartridge Filter, Jandy stealth pumps, Jandy LXi Heater, I aqualink, Inline chlorinator. Click to see My Pool Build

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