Pool/Pump problems, very detailed, need help please.

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n240sxguy said:
When you put the hose and pipe in the skimmer to force water through the pump and filter, do you turn the pump on? Try turning the main drain off and the skimmer valve on. Put the hose in the skimmer and push water through til you see it coming out the backwash. Have someone turn the pump on. Pull the hose out of the skimmer. If that doesn't work, you need to make sure there isn't anything blocking the impeller.


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This is what I was trying to do but I've been trying to do it myself by running back and fourth, it wasn't working... However I got my wife to help me this time and IT WORKED! (For the moment.... ) [Edit, it stopped in less than 5 minutes, is it worth it to keep trying?] So I'm going to try and backwash more out, should I turn the MD back to open once it's running or no?


JamesW said:
The pump is labeled as 4 H.P*, which is way too big for a small residential pool.*Note: 240 volts x 12 amps equals 2880 watts, which equals about 3.9 H.P consumed. So, I'm guessing that that's how they got 4 H.P. However, most of the time H.P is rated by power delivered, not used. I think that they are playing games to display a higher H.P than the pump should be labeled.

In any case, the pump is still oversized. It is dangerous, it is wasteful of electricity and it is going to overstress your system, and cause premature failure of components.

I would suggest one of the following.

FHPM1.0-2 (Jandy FloPro Medium Head Pump, 230/1 15 VAC, 1.0HP, 2-Speed.) Or

VS-FHP1.0 (Jandy VS FloPro Variable-Speed Pump With JEP-R Controller, 230 VAC, 1.0 HP)
Click to expand...

I will look in to those two pumps and see if I can find them here in Canada, would you recommend one over tyhe other? I'm all about saving money over time so if you don't feel I need that big of a unit (although it looks very small lol) I'll be happy to take a look! (I was told that variable speed is the way to go from what I've read)



n240sxguy said:
Is the attached spa not functional?


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Unfortunately at this moment, it is not. When I did the inspection with the guy he said it was cracked from turning up the boiler so they just took it out of the system (notice two heat exchangers on the wall), the guy I had inspect it however inspected it and said it was just the Gel from the tub that came off from what he can tell and there's an EPOXY out now that can fix that so the tub should be operational soon (I hope). We are fairly certain that the unit that is tied in to the pool right now was once used as the hot tub unit and through the process of elimination is now where the pool pump used to be because the pool pump died ect.
 
Yori96 said:
This is what I was trying to do but I've been trying to do it myself by running back and fourth, it wasn't working... However I got my wife to help me this time and IT WORKED! (For the moment.... ) [Edit, it stopped in less than 5 minutes, is it worth it to keep trying?] So I'm going to try and backwash more out, should I turn the MD back to open once it's running or no?

Unfortunately at this moment, it is not. When I did the inspection with the guy he said it was cracked from turning up the boiler so they just took it out of the system (notice two heat exchangers on the wall), the guy I had inspect it however inspected it and said it was just the Gel from the tub that came off from what he can tell and there's an EPOXY out now that can fix that so the tub should be operational soon (I hope). We are fairly certain that the unit that is tied in to the pool right now was once used as the hot tub unit and through the process of elimination is now where the pool pump used to be because the pool pump died ect.
Click to expand...

I would give it one more shot, but I'd expect the same result. Opening the main drain valve would most likely instantly make you lose prime because it probably has a big air bubble from the valve to the water level of the pool. With a regular pool pump you could get it primed and slowly crack that valve in to pull the air through the pump slowly without losing prime. Maybe try what you did then have your wife slowly open the main drain valve to let the water you are pumping in through the skimmer slowly displace the air in the main drain line. Then fire up the pump. That may get it. The pump you have now was probably previously fed off the discharge of the pool pump so it never had to be primed. It just bumped the pressure up even more to run back to the spa jets. That's my guess anyway unless it was mounted somewhere below the water surface, which I doubt.


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Some updates & many questions:

So I had the water moving, MD&Skim open, pump was running great, had it on backwash and now I can tell the water is about where it should be(Based on previous chlorine line), just as I was finishing up I looked in the pool and saw the water circulating... Ran in to the filter room to see what was going on and found this : https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_cH8EgWniN4

The see-through glass is cloudy now,(or at least was until I turned it off and it drained) when I got it all working again it was crystal clear, I assume the sand is going out now? I don't know, but what do I need to do to fix this problem now. :/

I do apologize, most of the plumbing is 1.5", however the in to and out of the pump is 2.5 so the VS-FHP1.0 would work, correct?

I have an HVR unit in the pool room, what should I have both the relative humidty and temperature on the thermostat & what should my boiler be heating the water too?

Should I hire someone to do my pool balancing ect? (There's a film on the top I can see) I had the guy here, he used these items & left lots here, took 750ml of water and said he'd get back to me :

All "bioguard" products.

Power Puck / Sanitize / Step 1
Smart Shock / Step 2
Inhibit Algicide / Step 3
Filter Bright (Filter Cleaner)
Maintain Lo 'n Slow


Thanks for all the information so far, hopefully we can keep moving forward. :)
 
Yori96 said:
Some updates & many questions:

So I had the water moving, MD&Skim open, pump was running great, had it on backwash and now I can tell the water is about where it should be(Based on previous chlorine line), just as I was finishing up I looked in the pool and saw the water circulating... Ran in to the filter room to see what was going on and found this : https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_cH8EgWniN4

The see-through glass is cloudy now,(or at least was until I turned it off and it drained) when I got it all working again it was crystal clear, I assume the sand is going out now? I don't know, but what do I need to do to fix this problem now. :/

I do apologize, most of the plumbing is 1.5", however the in to and out of the pump is 2.5 so the VS-FHP1.0 would work, correct?

I have an HVR unit in the pool room, what should I have both the relative humidty and temperature on the thermostat & what should my boiler be heating the water too?

Should I hire someone to do my pool balancing ect? (There's a film on the top I can see) I had the guy here, he used these items & left lots here, took 750ml of water and said he'd get back to me :

All "bioguard" products.

Power Puck / Sanitize / Step 1
Smart Shock / Step 2
Inhibit Algicide / Step 3
Filter Bright (Filter Cleaner)
Maintain Lo 'n Slow


Thanks for all the information so far, hopefully we can keep moving forward. :)
Click to expand...

That's a mess! Is the water coming out from the flex hose fitting or around where the lever on the multiport attaches together? I looks like around the lever, which would be a gasket or o-ring I suppose. When you backwash the water in the sight glass will be cloudy with dirt. When it clears up, you know you have back washed enough. No sand should go out the backwash line. If you are going to source out work, I would say go with the mechanical part. Let someone else put in a pump, inspect the filter, and verify everything works as it should. Once that is set up to a flip the switch and it actually works state, the rest is cake. Most of the chemicals you have are not recommended for the easiest experience. They are the typical pool store products that get too many into trouble. Read through pool school, the abc' of chemistry, and the recommended test kits. That will get you well on your way on the balancing side of it.


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It's definitely coming out the top where the lever is. What would the downside of repairing that gasket/o-ring and installing a new pump myself be?

I guess I wasn't expecting to see it cloudy because when I started it was clean, I assumed because where the water was coming from it was causing an issue.

I figured they were typical products, I'll read through the chemistry information tomorrow and get myself acquainted. :)
 
Yori96 said:
It's definitely coming out the top where the lever is. What would the downside of repairing that gasket/o-ring and installing a new pump myself be?

I guess I wasn't expecting to see it cloudy because when I started it was clean, I assumed because where the water was coming from it was causing an issue.

I figured they were typical products, I'll read through the chemistry information tomorrow and get myself acquainted. :)
Click to expand...

No problems doing it yourself at all as long as you are comfortable with it. You had mentioned having someone balance the water. I was just saying if you pick work to have someone else do, that's the one to choose.


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I've replaced o-rings before, I can't see gaskets being any more difficult. (Providing I can locate the parts) I hope that's all that is wrong with it and I can get this functioning sooner than later. :/

I had a guy here to show me how to get things operational and to get me going with supplies ect, before I did the research and it seems there's more help here than what he was offering me..

These systems seem pretty basic, was just a lot of new information to take in, especially when i knew nothing about pools to begin with.
 
Yori96 said:
I've replaced o-rings before, I can't see gaskets being any more difficult. (Providing I can locate the parts) I hope that's all that is wrong with it and I can get this functioning sooner than later. :/

I had a guy here to show me how to get things operational and to get me going with supplies ect, before I did the research and it seems there's more help here than what he was offering me..

These systems seem pretty basic, was just a lot of new information to take in, especially when i knew nothing about pools to begin with.
Click to expand...

I was referring more to the motor as far as having someone else do it. If you can change an o-ring, you can probably change the pump. I didn't know how much electrical experience you had. I'm glad this site has been a help. It's crazy that people hundreds or thousands of miles away are offering more help for free than what he was getting paid for. Kinda funny actually.


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Yori96 said:
I found a whole head instead of individual parts for 275$, would you say it's worth replacing just that over trying to fix parts?
Click to expand...

Are you talking about the top of the filter? The whole multiport assembly? If it's just a gasket or o-ring, you're only looking at $20-30 in parts. The whole piece would be a quicker easier drop in approach vs figuring out which parts to order, then waiting for them to come in. I'd say tear into the valve assembly and see what's going on.


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For the filter you should be able to find a "Go Kit" for that filter that contains all of the o-rings and gaskets, so you can be sure that you have the one you end up needing. Plus if one failed it is likely that others are close to failing and so worth it to replace them all.

Replacing a pump is a bit more complex, requiring PVC plumbing as well as electrical work. Neither is all that difficult, but together they can be a bit intimidating. If you have never done line voltage wiring, this might not be the time to start, but if you have some basic electrical skills the wiring on a pump isn't all that difficult. The plumbing is a little trickier in some ways, but be methodical, measure several times and glue once, and you should be alright.
 
I just don't know how to tell which piece it is. I suppose ripping it apart would be rather simple, I know what a messed up o-ring looks like and I'm sure if iut's not that the gasket isn't that bad to replace either. I'll rip it apart and see.

The guy on the phone said it could be an arm too inside\?


Jason, where can I find a "Go Kit" ?

Thanks for the tips on the rest. :)
 
Well, I have everything up and running again! New head on filter, re-plumbed, new blanket ready to be used and just running solid now to get the pool heated, I don't think my switch for auto/manual is working on my heat-exchanger though... have to figure that out soon... May need to hire someone to explain it all to me..

So now my questions are ->

What test kit would you guys actually recommend? So I can start doing this myself.
How can I sell the wife on using bleach in the pool... -_- I tried to explain to her it's the same chemicals as power pucks but she doesn't buy it..
With the test kits, do they include everything I'll need or is there more I should buy?
Does anyone here know what my HVR humity/temperature controls should be set at?
I'm sure there's more but I can't think of any right now, thank you for all your help so far. :)


 
More info, got them to test my water a 2nd time, they gave me a whole ton more chemicals to put in. They said it'll take 3 days to see change, I can swim in my pool currently and they want to see another water sample on Monday.

Here are my results:

Saturation Idx: -0.9
TDS: 500
CYA: Not tested
Tot Chlorine : 0
Free Chlorine: 0
pH: 6.8
Tot Alkalinity: 100
Adj Total Alkalinity: 100
Cal. Hardness: 120
Borates: Not Testest
Copper :Not tested
Salt :n/a
Maganese :No
Hazy: No
Cloudy :No
Staining :None
Copper Stain: None
IUron Stain: No
Green Algae :No
Swampy: No
Black Algae: None
Mustard Algae :No
Slime/Mold: No
Filter Cleaned: 07/01/2015
Plaster < 12: No
Spring Opening: No
Temp <32: No
CD Sample: Not Tested
CD Stanadard: Not Tested
CD Test: Type None
 
Stop going to the pool store and buying everything they tell you!!!
What potions did they tell you to pour in?

The key to a clear pool is understanding the relationship between the chlorine (FC) and stabilizer (CYA). See the FC/CYA Chart. They did not even test the CYA, so how can they advise you on how to clear it up?!?!

Being in Canada, you can only buy the K-2006 test kit. That is what you need as it includes the very important FAS-DPD chlorine test. There is really no way to advise you on a path forward until you can test the water yourself. The SpeedStir is a really nice option, but everything you need in included in the K-2006.

Regarding your wife ... we have all been there. One option is to go to a pool store that sells liquid chlorine, look at the ingredients. Then look at the ingredients in plain old bleach ... they are the same.

The tablets include CYA which builds up and requires higher levels of chlorine. Being an indoor pool, you can maintain a low level of CYA 20-30ppm and then keep lower FC levels since you do not need high protection from the sun.

I have no idea what your temp / humidity should be set at.

How much Pool School have you read? Start with these:
ABCs of Water Chemistry
Recommended Pool Chemicals
How to Chlorinate Your Pool
 
Edit : The pool guy also installed different jets in my pool, they have fins on them and shoot water out while at the same time create whirlpools effects up top, I thought this would help move the debree around but I find that the bugs ect that are in the pool just stay in that area. :/

Edit 2 : What would be the easiest way to figure out the gallons in my pool?

Edit 3 : The prices I've gotten are 320~ for a small kit and 540~ for a large kit, crazy price. How long do these kits last?

I went to the pool store because the wife would like them to get it all operational and then is fine letting me take it from there.

They gave me - Balance Pak 100 & 200 from BioGuard, same company, new products. I added what she said so I can make my water swimmable, the water IS clear, there is no discolouration until I aggitate the dust that's settled in the bottom from the pool being unused for so long (I have a vaccum I've been using for that)

I thought it was strange they didn't test CYA as that's what I've been reading on here that's important.

So I'll find the K-2006 test kit and get it to my door stat. REcommended places to order?:) How long does 1 kit last?

Are there specific bleaches in Canada you would recommend w/ more chlorine content or price ect?

which tablets are you refering too?

Currently what the store would like me to do is :

Total Alkalinity :
Add 5.4kh(s) of Balance Pack 100 (16 cups)
pH:
Add 1.4kg(s) of Balance Pack 200 (4 cups)
Add 3 bag(s) of Smart Shock

After this is done, continue regular maintenance;

Use the 3-Step Pool CAre Program :

Maintain 1-3ppm chlorine residual with Power Pucks

Maintain Oxidizer ; Add 3 bag(s) of Smart Shock weekly to eliminate undesirable compounds

Maintenance dose of Algae Inhibitor (Add 172 ml(s) of Banish Weekly, Add 129ml(s) of Poluysheen Blue - Weekly
 
Yup, you guys get screwed on the pricing due to the monopoly up there. I think some people were getting the K-2006 off of Ebay for a more reasonable price. The kit should last a year or maybe 2. One issue is that the K-2006 does not come with nearly enough of the FAS-DPD or CYA reagents. This is all garbage and just profit for them too: Algae Inhibitor (Add 172 ml(s) of Banish Weekly, Add 129ml(s) of Poluysheen Blue

The problem with your wife's thinking is that the pool store could very well put you in a position where it is extremely difficult to maintain the pool. For example, if all of the Smart Shock is dichlor or trichlor, that could raise your CYA way too high. Then you will have to drain and replace water and start over. And adding 3 pounds a week is just a good way to raise their profits.

The Balance Pak stuff is SO overpriced. Read the link in my previous post for how to find the same chemicals in the grocery store.

I thought you wide had mentioned wanting to use trichlor tablets ... I was telling you why that was a bad idea ... see the links I gave you ;)

Total alkalinity is like the LAST thing you need to be worried about and likely they are suggesting you raise it higher than we would recommend. Their test showed a TA of 100ppm, that is already higher than we recommend before you start adding anything.
 
Balance Pak 100 is sodium hydrogen carbonate, also known as sodium bicarbonate or baking soda.
Balance Pak 200 is sodium carbonate which is washing soda.
Power Pucks are trichlor-s-triazinetrione and boron sodium oxide pentahydrate. They add chlorine, cyanuric acid, and boric acid.
Smart Shock is sodium dichloro-s-triazinetrione and copper. It adds chlorine, cyanuric acid, and copper.

When the trichlor and dichlor mix with water they make hypochlorous acid. That's the same thing that adding plain old bleach does. The pool store way has you add a couple "easy" things that runs all your numbers through the roof instead of adding the one component of their products you are actually needing; chlorine. You don't want to keep adding CYA and copper. High CYA will end up with you dumping water to get rid of it. Copper can stain your pool. Compare the prices of the balance pak 100 and 200 to the price of baking soda and washing soda. Let your wife see the price difference and she will probably be convinced what the pool store wants to do; take more and more of your money.


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Edit : nvm, I thought she said it doesn't test CYA but she's asking if I need to. So if I was ordering a kit and wanted to customize it, what would you recommend?

Thanks for all the tips guys, I will stop adding these chemicals to my pool until I recieve my test kit... I just know this pool hasn't been functioning for some time and I don't want it to be all messed up, I'd like to be using it asap , don't want the liner/equipment to be damaged in the mean time ...but I guess it'll be another few weeks to get the kit + balance ect ect... Blarg.

The lady I talked to in Ontario said something similar about how many tests the regeants do, I managed to talk her in to selling me the kit as a residential user, usually they only sell commercial but the people she gave me numbers for sell them at 310.30 for the small and 538.32 for the large, she's selling the small at 179.95 and the large at 300.00 so regardless of how I look at it, even with shipping it's cheaper to go through her.

What do you guys recommend, the small or large kit?
 

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