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Thread: Pool/Pump problems, very detailed, need help please.

  1. Back To Top    #1

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    Pool/Pump problems, very detailed, need help please.

    So I just purchased a house, it has an inground indoor pool. I need to replace/fix the pump (I believe) due to the fact that I can't maintain prime ( I think) on the pump that's there now.


    The pool is this shape here :

    http://www.peakpoolsandspas.com/wp-c...freeform10.jpg
    So I just purchased a house, it has an inground indoor pool. I need to replace/fix the pump (I believe) due to the fact that I can't maintain prime ( I think) on the pump that's there now.

    My question is what would you recommend ? is there something I can try/test/check first before I go spending all this money on replacing a pump? I had it running for about 12 hours straight when I first moved in, it was moving the water like crazy and now I can't get it to keep prime, I can force it to push water to the sandbag and down the washback if I put my hose and a 1 1/2 pvc on the skimmer (removing the mesh) but I can't get it to push water itself...

    This is a PAINT photo (best I could do) of my setup, and would be more than willing to answer other questions.

    http://i60.tinypic.com/5bw8zc.png

    Any tips/advice would be appreciated.



    Currently I have this pump (image :http://i60.tinypic.com/2uq2gs3.jpg)

    I personally can't find anything on this, however it's a 4HP pump.

  2. Back To Top    #2
    Mod Squad jblizzle's Avatar
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    Re: Pool/Pump problems, very detailed, need help please.

    Welcome to TFP!!!

    First, forget about flow rate calculation and turn over times ... they are meaningless. Read this: Determine Pump Run Time

    Second, I can not understand what you are saying in the main paragraph ... sandbag? hose in the skimmer?
    Can you post up some pictures of your equipment please? How To Post Pictures
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    mas985's Avatar
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    Re: Pool/Pump problems, very detailed, need help please.

    So if I wanted a turnover rate of 10 hours, I'd need the unit to be pushing 3700GPH or 60GPM, I know the pipe to and from the pump is 1.5" PVC so your max flow would be 63GPM @ 10ft/sec.
    Why do you want a 10 hour turnover? Turnover is pretty much irrelevant to water quality.

    Also 12 hours should not be necessary and if it is really a 4 HP pump, that is way way too big for a residential pool. How do you know it is a 4 HP pump? The amp rating is closer to a 2.5 HP Full Rated motor.

    But the picture you have shown is a motor, not a pump so what does the pump look like?
    Mark
    Hydraulics 101; Pump Ed 101; Pump/Pool Spreadsheets; Pump Run Time Study; DIY Acid Dosing; DIY Cover Roller
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    JasonLion's Avatar
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    Re: Pool/Pump problems, very detailed, need help please.

    Welcome to TFP!

    Chances are that the pump is fine, but there is an air leak somewhere. If too much air gets into the pump it will either fail to prime in the first place, or lose prime as soon as it get it.
    19K gal, vinyl, 1/2 HP WhisperFlo pump, 200 sqft cartridge filter, AutoPilot Digital SWG, Dolphin Dynamic cleaning robot
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    Re: Pool/Pump problems, very detailed, need help please.

    I do apologize! Let me start from the beginning... Sorry, I've been trying to get myself organized on this matter for some time and I'm not being clear because I'm rushing so I will slow it all down.

    Presently I can't get circulation, when I first moved in 3 days ago I had a guy come take a look at it and we managed to get prime and get everything operational. The pool hasn't ran in quite some time from what I can tell and I was just trying to circulate the water warm as I have (in the pictures) heat exchangers, all connected to a boiler system ect.

    A day or so ago I lost circulation, I don't know what the cause is, I believe I lost prime.

    If I close my MD valve, open my Skimmer valve, take my basket out of the skimmer, put a pipe and hose on the skimmer, turn my sandbag to washback and turn my pump on, I can move water through the pipes, to the washback and can see water in the washback see-through (which yuou will see on the photo), the pump is above water level (as you will see) but I can't "seem" to get the pump to push the water itself, althoiugh it was doing it flawlessly for almost 12 hours straight.

    What can I do to fix this/what information do you need for me to give you to get a step closer. I'd like to know if it's fixable instead of replaceable.








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    Mod Squad JohnT's Avatar
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    Re: Pool/Pump problems, very detailed, need help please.

    You have the inlet valves for your pump partially closed. Where it is labelled "skim" and "md"
    TFP Moderator
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    mas985's Avatar
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    Re: Pool/Pump problems, very detailed, need help please.

    With that size pump, you are best off leaving both the MD and Skimmer valves fully open which is when the handle is vertical. Try that first and see if there is any improvement. Also, what is the filter pressure with both handles fully open? If it is really high, then there could be something wrong with the backwash valve or the sand filter itself.
    Mark
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    Re: Pool/Pump problems, very detailed, need help please.

    The guy I had here said I should have the skimmer cracked and the MD cracked as well, he didn't really explain why though.

    This pump shouldn't have a problem moving the water I need it to or?

    When it is backwashing, there is no pressure on the guage, it just dumps but it only dumps when I push water through with the hose, the pump never actually picks anything up. When I switch it to Circulate and/or clean, it doesn't pressure up, the pump doesn't push the water. It's like the motor is running but nothing is being pushed/pulled.

    And the only way I can fill the pipe with water is by closing the MD and filling it w/ a tube at the skimmer by the pool.

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    mas985's Avatar
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    Re: Pool/Pump problems, very detailed, need help please.

    What is the pressure when the filter is in filter mode?
    Mark
    Hydraulics 101; Pump Ed 101; Pump/Pool Spreadsheets; Pump Run Time Study; DIY Acid Dosing; DIY Cover Roller
    18'x36' 20k plaster, MaxFlo SP2303VSP, Aqualogic PS8 SWCG, 420 sq-ft Cartridge, Solar, 6 jet spa, 1 HP jet pump, 400k BTU NG Heater

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    Re: Pool/Pump problems, very detailed, need help please.

    Nothing, it wont pressure up. :/ When it was working the pressure sat at 20-25~ psi. (On the pressure gauge)

    I guess another reason I believe it's the pump is when I do put it on backwash to just go out, it wont backwash at all unless the pool is above the skimmer (which I accidentally did), regardless of having both drains completely open or not.

    If I close the MD and force water through the skimmer I can fill the show glass (you can see on the picture) and than open the 1/4 turn so that the water drops but if I Stop forcing water, the pump runs but the water doesn't.

    If I don't close the MD nothing happens.

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    Re: Pool/Pump problems, very detailed, need help please.

    Keeping both intake valves mostly closed as shown in the photo can not possibly work and will cause exactly the symptoms you have been describing. At a minimum you will need at least one of those valves fully open. If one of the lines is letting in air, it may only work when the valve associated with that line is closed.

    When you say: "If I don't close the MD nothing happens." what exactly do you mean by "nothing"? Surely the pump makes some noise when you turn it on (at the very least).

    Is the water level in the pool at least a couple of inches above the bottom of the skimmer opening? What do you have the valve on top of the filter set to?
    19K gal, vinyl, 1/2 HP WhisperFlo pump, 200 sqft cartridge filter, AutoPilot Digital SWG, Dolphin Dynamic cleaning robot
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  12. Back To Top    #12

    Re: Pool/Pump problems, very detailed, need help please.

    It's a two speed pump. Are you trying to run it on high or low? There is no strainer, which increases the risk of clogging the impeller. And it looks like that pump might not be a self priming pump. It might need to be below water level to work properly.

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    Re: Pool/Pump problems, very detailed, need help please.

    Jason,

    I uploaded this video, maybe it will help.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hQR1Xp-bEPk

    The valve on the sand filter is currently set to "washback" , when it was circulating, before I over filled the pool, before it lost prime, it was on clean.

    James,

    It is on high, it doesn't have a switch and is wired for high (that I did check), the strainer for the skimmer was in, I took it out to try to get the water moving, I believe it's shown in the video and it was in when the pump was circulating originally.

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    Re: Pool/Pump problems, very detailed, need help please.

    Part of the problem is that the pump is not designed to be used as a pool pump. It is designed to be a spa jet pump. Those pumps are often designed to be "flooded suction" meaning that they do not self-prime and need to be below water level for best performance.

    The lack of a strainer basket means that the impeller is probably at least partially blocked with debris.

    A "flooded suction" pump can be made to work as long as the system remains full of water. However, if air gets into the system, the pump will not reprime easily and might need to be force primed.

    You could have an air leak somewhere allowing air in or air can get in just from moving the valve to backwash.

    In any case, the pump is way oversized and not a good choice. I would consider replacing the pump with one more suited to the duty.

  15. Back To Top    #15

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    Re: Pool/Pump problems, very detailed, need help please.

    How do you force prime for the time being?
    How do you determine that the pump is way over-sized?
    What would you recommend as an adequate replacement and why?

  16. Back To Top    #16

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    Re: Pool/Pump problems, very detailed, need help please.

    I don't know much about pools but I'm a farmer and use heaps of pumps and km's of pipe work and as Jason said you NEVER close ball valves (or any valve) on suction sides of pumps, you will suck air and lose prime and ruin your pump. Partially closing valves on the pressure side of the pump is no problem though, and is quite commonly done. The other thing with ball valves is, it is nearly impossible to tell by the angle of the handle how far open the valve is, some valves are almost completely shut at the angle of your handles in the pic, depending on brand quality.

    It looks a bad design as they are trying to change the percentage of where the water comes from by closing valves on the suction side. If you do have to close them to change where the water comes from then make sure that you only do it a fraction and that all those threaded unions have good o-rings and are sealed well, but personally I wouldn't close them.

  17. Back To Top    #17

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    Re: Pool/Pump problems, very detailed, need help please.

    Quote Originally Posted by Yori96 View Post
    How do you force prime for the time being?
    ?
    Take that flexible line off the sand filter, stick the hose in it and make sure that the line and pump etc is full of water, open both your valves. Turn your pump on and quickly stick the line back onto the filter.

    The pump probably needs a non return valve putting in the line on the suction side of it, as it above the water, unless it's a self priming pump, maybe it's tired and one would benefit it anyway.

    Also check that their isn't a little bung on the pump to let trapped air out, again, I'm not up there on pool pump design.

  18. Back To Top    #18
    n240sxguy's Avatar
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    Re: Pool/Pump problems, very detailed, need help please.

    When you put the hose and pipe in the skimmer to force water through the pump and filter, do you turn the pump on? Try turning the main drain off and the skimmer valve on. Put the hose in the skimmer and push water through til you see it coming out the backwash. Have someone turn the pump on. Pull the hose out of the skimmer. If that doesn't work, you need to make sure there isn't anything blocking the impeller.


    30K gallon IG vinyl. 1.5HP 2-speed Waterway Mustang pump. 600 lb sand filter. Polaris 280. Circupool SI-60+. TF-100

  19. Back To Top    #19

    Re: Pool/Pump problems, very detailed, need help please.

    The pump is labeled as 4 H.P*, which is way too big for a small residential pool.*Note: 240 volts x 12 amps equals 2880 watts, which equals about 3.9 H.P consumed. So, I'm guessing that that's how they got 4 H.P. However, most of the time H.P is rated by power delivered, not used. I think that they are playing games to display a higher H.P than the pump should be labeled.

    In any case, the pump is still oversized. It is dangerous, it is wasteful of electricity and it is going to overstress your system, and cause premature failure of components.

    I would suggest one of the following.

    FHPM1.0-2 (Jandy FloPro Medium Head Pump, 230/1 15 VAC, 1.0HP, 2-Speed.) Or

    VS-FHP1.0 (Jandy VS FloPro Variable-Speed Pump With JEP-R Controller, 230 VAC, 1.0 HP)

  20. Back To Top    #20
    n240sxguy's Avatar
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    Re: Pool/Pump problems, very detailed, need help please.

    Is the attached spa not functional?


    30K gallon IG vinyl. 1.5HP 2-speed Waterway Mustang pump. 600 lb sand filter. Polaris 280. Circupool SI-60+. TF-100

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