http://www.solarsunrings.com/bioactivenow/products.html
Want to know people thoughts on this upcoming product
Want to know people thoughts on this upcoming product
Thoughts on bio-active cya reducer
- Thread starter X-PertPool
- Start date
Re: thoughts on bio-active cya reducer
The principals it works on are plausible, but the process is very complex. It is impossible to know if they have really gotten it to work correctly or not until we have heard from people who have tried it. Since it hasn't shipped yet, there is really now way of knowing if it really works in practice just yet.
The principals it works on are plausible, but the process is very complex. It is impossible to know if they have really gotten it to work correctly or not until we have heard from people who have tried it. Since it hasn't shipped yet, there is really now way of knowing if it really works in practice just yet.
Re: thoughts on bio-active cya reducer
I think that it's probably a bacteria. If it works at all, I suspect that it creates a lot of ammonia. I haven't used it, so I don't know what it actually does. Based on my research, I'm sceptical. It would be interesting to see results from a reliable source.
There are bacteria that break down cyanuric acid into ammonia and bacteria that break down ammonia. It could be that they are using multiple types of bacteria to avoid the ammonia problem.
I think that it's probably a bacteria. If it works at all, I suspect that it creates a lot of ammonia. I haven't used it, so I don't know what it actually does. Based on my research, I'm sceptical. It would be interesting to see results from a reliable source.
There are bacteria that break down cyanuric acid into ammonia and bacteria that break down ammonia. It could be that they are using multiple types of bacteria to avoid the ammonia problem.
Re: thoughts on bio-active cya reducer
I found this patent application #20140342437 from BiOWiSH Technologies that describes the use of a combination of Bacillus and Lactobacillus bacteria for degrading organic matter. Though they only refer to swimming pools in terms of reducing scum and algae, this combination looks to be the right one to handle both stages of cyanuric acid degradation. Bacillus may be one of the many types of bacteria (and fungi) that can degrade cyanuric acid to ammonia. However, I did not think that Lactobacillus would oxidize ammonia to nitrogen gas. There are bacteria such as Nitrobacillus georgiensis that can oxidize ammonia and I described other nitrification-denitrification and annamox processes before.
See also this link and this link from BiOWiSH Technologies.
I found this patent application #20140342437 from BiOWiSH Technologies that describes the use of a combination of Bacillus and Lactobacillus bacteria for degrading organic matter. Though they only refer to swimming pools in terms of reducing scum and algae, this combination looks to be the right one to handle both stages of cyanuric acid degradation. Bacillus may be one of the many types of bacteria (and fungi) that can degrade cyanuric acid to ammonia. However, I did not think that Lactobacillus would oxidize ammonia to nitrogen gas. There are bacteria such as Nitrobacillus georgiensis that can oxidize ammonia and I described other nitrification-denitrification and annamox processes before.
See also this link and this link from BiOWiSH Technologies.
Re: thoughts on bio-active cya reducer
Interesting, though mucking about with the bacillus family always gives me pause (too any Crichton books in younger days...)
Likely not germane as regular TFPers wouldn't find themselves needing it, but I did note this, and since I dose to about 7 to stay a bit above 4 after sun and bather load, it would be a deal breaker for me :
Interesting, though mucking about with the bacillus family always gives me pause (too any Crichton books in younger days...)
Likely not germane as regular TFPers wouldn't find themselves needing it, but I did note this, and since I dose to about 7 to stay a bit above 4 after sun and bather load, it would be a deal breaker for me :
Re: thoughts on bio-active cya reducer
Yes, and remember that you are using this product specifically because CYA is really really high, so keeping FC below 5 is practically a guaranteed algae problem. On the other hand, algae might be a small price to pay if it really lowers CYA effectively.
Yes, and remember that you are using this product specifically because CYA is really really high, so keeping FC below 5 is practically a guaranteed algae problem. On the other hand, algae might be a small price to pay if it really lowers CYA effectively.
Re: thoughts on bio-active cya reducer
On the other hand, if you are a tablet user and use CYA reducer before your CYA level gets all that high it could work out, assuming it isn't wildly expensive.
On the other hand, if you are a tablet user and use CYA reducer before your CYA level gets all that high it could work out, assuming it isn't wildly expensive.
Re: thoughts on bio-active cya reducer
Boys- I am not selling this stuff. I just found this thread and immediately called them. It should be available by mid to late March. They claim a 8oz. application will reduce CYA in a 30,000 gallon pool from 100ppm down to 20-30 ppm. They said it takes approx. 10 days to do it's thing and then it is no longer active. They said the MSRP will be $59.95 for the 8oz. I see this as huge if it really works and there is no gotcha at the end of the rainbow.
Boys- I am not selling this stuff. I just found this thread and immediately called them. It should be available by mid to late March. They claim a 8oz. application will reduce CYA in a 30,000 gallon pool from 100ppm down to 20-30 ppm. They said it takes approx. 10 days to do it's thing and then it is no longer active. They said the MSRP will be $59.95 for the 8oz. I see this as huge if it really works and there is no gotcha at the end of the rainbow.
Re: thoughts on bio-active cya reducer
Certainly will be interesting to get some feedback on how well or whether it works. Certainly not cheap ... likely still cheaper for most of the country to just drain and refill ... especially if the CYA is astronomically high like up closer to 300ppm as we have seen. But, could be an important option for people with water restrictions.
Certainly will be interesting to get some feedback on how well or whether it works. Certainly not cheap ... likely still cheaper for most of the country to just drain and refill ... especially if the CYA is astronomically high like up closer to 300ppm as we have seen. But, could be an important option for people with water restrictions.
Re: thoughts on bio-active cya reducer
Just read the part about FC should be 5ppm and 2-3ppm being ideal. Hum...going to have to think that one through. I REALLY hesitate to bring this up but here it goes. If I have to run the FC dangerously low to do this treatment for 10 long days, would it not be to my advantage to have the phosphates in the pool as low as reasonable? ( I know the phosphate discussion has been the cause of threads being locked so I don't want this to go there, nor will I contribute to that happening but I'm thinking lower phosphates would be my friend here). So the direction I want this to go in is how do I use this product and not end up with a green pool?
Just read the part about FC should be 5ppm and 2-3ppm being ideal. Hum...going to have to think that one through. I REALLY hesitate to bring this up but here it goes. If I have to run the FC dangerously low to do this treatment for 10 long days, would it not be to my advantage to have the phosphates in the pool as low as reasonable? ( I know the phosphate discussion has been the cause of threads being locked so I don't want this to go there, nor will I contribute to that happening but I'm thinking lower phosphates would be my friend here). So the direction I want this to go in is how do I use this product and not end up with a green pool?
Re: thoughts on bio-active cya reducer
This is certainly a concern, as maintaining a low FC while the CYA is very high is a recipe for a green pool. But, maybe you just let it go green and then SLAM to clear it up once the CYA has dropped ... this would work for the target audience of this forum, but likely not ideal for those of you in the industry.
Lower phosphate levels as well as the use of an algaecide (assuming it does not interfere with the CYA reducer) could certainly lower the risk (not eliminate it) of the pool turning green when you must maintain a FC level that is too low for your CYA level. There is no debating this.
This is certainly a concern, as maintaining a low FC while the CYA is very high is a recipe for a green pool. But, maybe you just let it go green and then SLAM to clear it up once the CYA has dropped ... this would work for the target audience of this forum, but likely not ideal for those of you in the industry.
Lower phosphate levels as well as the use of an algaecide (assuming it does not interfere with the CYA reducer) could certainly lower the risk (not eliminate it) of the pool turning green when you must maintain a FC level that is too low for your CYA level. There is no debating this.
Re: thoughts on bio-active cya reducer
Their claim that 5 ppm FC is a problem may not have any understanding of the FC/CYA relationship because it should be the active chlorine level that is relevant towards the degradation of the biological material. 5 ppm FC by itself means nothing. It has to be understood in the context of the CYA level. So I would not assume that a higher FC, when the CYA is proportionately higher, will be any problem for this product.
Their claim that 5 ppm FC is a problem may not have any understanding of the FC/CYA relationship because it should be the active chlorine level that is relevant towards the degradation of the biological material. 5 ppm FC by itself means nothing. It has to be understood in the context of the CYA level. So I would not assume that a higher FC, when the CYA is proportionately higher, will be any problem for this product.
Re: thoughts on bio-active cya reducer
Chem geek, do you suppose they'd explain this to us? In their FAQ, they're telling folks a FC over 5 is contraindicated...but their target market is the very folks that have cya at or over 100. Ergo, they're possibly saying that if you have an effective amount of chlorine in your water, it will kill the bacillus...because FC of 5 at 100 cya is not even an effective level of sanitation.
And if they don't understand the relationship adequately to articulate this....do we trust em in packaging the distant cousin of anthrax? Hi ho. I feel a bout of sci-fi coming on
(Then again, as I can personally attest from early days with the swamp, there is nothing quite as effective as nullifying every trace of CYA via putrification/conversion to ammonia Maybe they've just found a way to harness this phenom...and at the same time, sell more shock after the fact...I wonder if they also manufacture shock...
Chem geek, do you suppose they'd explain this to us? In their FAQ, they're telling folks a FC over 5 is contraindicated...but their target market is the very folks that have cya at or over 100. Ergo, they're possibly saying that if you have an effective amount of chlorine in your water, it will kill the bacillus...because FC of 5 at 100 cya is not even an effective level of sanitation.
And if they don't understand the relationship adequately to articulate this....do we trust em in packaging the distant cousin of anthrax
? Hi ho. I feel a bout of sci-fi coming on (Then again, as I can personally attest from early days with the swamp, there is nothing quite as effective as nullifying every trace of CYA via putrification/conversion to ammonia
Maybe they've just found a way to harness this phenom...and at the same time, sell more shock after the fact...I wonder if they also manufacture shock... 
Re: thoughts on bio-active cya reducer
I would see this as a fall/spring product to use wile the water is still cold enough to slow the algae growth. I've seen several folks (myself included) who ended up,with high CYA just "maintain" their pool with the correct high FC as the CYA slowly goes down via rain additions/pump outs.
I would have been reticent to let my FC drop during the summer to use the product. But, at the same time the pool store told me that 200 CYA was fine and just keep the FC between 3 - 5. It was right on the nice computerized printout they gave me along with a list of stuff I should buy.
I would see this as a fall/spring product to use wile the water is still cold enough to slow the algae growth. I've seen several folks (myself included) who ended up,with high CYA just "maintain" their pool with the correct high FC as the CYA slowly goes down via rain additions/pump outs.
I would have been reticent to let my FC drop during the summer to use the product. But, at the same time the pool store told me that 200 CYA was fine and just keep the FC between 3 - 5. It was right on the nice computerized printout they gave me along with a list of stuff I should buy.
n240sxguy
Well-known member
Re: thoughts on bio-active cya reducer
Every time I read something about cya that high with chlorine that low I wonder if they are stupid or evil. I know nearly all of them are stupid, but I have to suspect that someone is deviously attempting to rob all pool owners one computer read out at a time. They did move off the epa 1-3, so maybe that's progress. Doubt it.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Every time I read something about cya that high with chlorine that low I wonder if they are stupid or evil. I know nearly all of them are stupid, but I have to suspect that someone is deviously attempting to rob all pool owners one computer read out at a time. They did move off the epa 1-3, so maybe that's progress. Doubt it.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Re: thoughts on bio-active cya reducer
I thought that most bacteria was easily killed by even fairly low levels of chlorine. An 8 ounce package contains only 0.225 to 2.25 grams of "organisms". It seems like the chlorine would need to be zero or very close to zero to give the bacteria a chance to multiply to a useful amount. Most of what's in the package is dextrose. Perhaps that is to give the bacteria a food source to get started.
I thought that most bacteria was easily killed by even fairly low levels of chlorine. An 8 ounce package contains only 0.225 to 2.25 grams of "organisms". It seems like the chlorine would need to be zero or very close to zero to give the bacteria a chance to multiply to a useful amount. Most of what's in the package is dextrose. Perhaps that is to give the bacteria a food source to get started.
Re: thoughts on bio-active cya reducer
Normally bacteria are killed easily and quickly, but apparently they must have some method of preventing chlorine from reacting with such bacteria. My best guess is that that have already formed biofilms that are resistant to chlorine (the chlorine reacts with and gets mired in the surface chemicals) while still allowing CYA to pass through and be consumed/converted in the interior.
Normally bacteria are killed easily and quickly, but apparently they must have some method of preventing chlorine from reacting with such bacteria. My best guess is that that have already formed biofilms that are resistant to chlorine (the chlorine reacts with and gets mired in the surface chemicals) while still allowing CYA to pass through and be consumed/converted in the interior.
Re: thoughts on bio-active cya reducer
Very interesting product indeed. A few ounces of that magic would allow for use of pucks on extended vacations. Thanks for posting XpertPool.
Very interesting product indeed. A few ounces of that magic would allow for use of pucks on extended vacations. Thanks for posting XpertPool.
Re: thoughts on bio-active cya reducer
Product booklet just was posted on their web site. Page 8 shows some chemistry behind it. Interesting to see someone give it a test when it is released for sale.
Product booklet just was posted on their web site. Page 8 shows some chemistry behind it. Interesting to see someone give it a test when it is released for sale.
Re: thoughts on bio-active cya reducer
I know Leslies is selling something now, but haven't bothered to look at the one they are selling. I just heard they were calling it an enzyme.
I know Leslies is selling something now, but haven't bothered to look at the one they are selling. I just heard they were calling it an enzyme.
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