Become a TFP Supporter Pool Math Forum Rules Pool School
Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast
Results 1 to 20 of 29

Thread: Electrical wiring help needed

  1. Back To Top    #1

    Join Date
    Aug 2014
    Location
    Allen, TX
    Posts
    67

    Electrical wiring help needed

    I am getting ready to start electrical work for my pool. I have one Pentair 1HP Superflo 2 speed pump and one Intex swg unit to power. I think I can pull this off myself, and electricans around here are asking 3K to do do work. But before I start I want to see if you can give me some directions, critiques etc.

    My main panel is in the garage, 90 feet away from where my pump is. Panel is 200 A rated. I am planing on installing double pole breaker @ 20A each. I will use THWN 8 AWG wire (I know it is more than needed) but this would give me option to expand later.
    About 50 feet is through garage and under my patio roof, rest of the wires will be inground ( 18" deep at least) Wire will be in 1" pvc conduit sch80, all glued together).

    Now when I get to equipment pad, I will place a Intermatic T30604R (Pool/Spa Control Panel T106M and T104M), that based on their decription does not require any junction boxes or service panels. Once I get to that I will need help wiring it up, if I cannot figure it out based on their wiring diagrams. Panel will be on the 4X4 treated post, 5' of the ground, about 10' from the pool. I have 12V LED light. I guess I need to place transformer somewhere in the outdoor rated panel.

    I am confused as far as requirements for emergency shutoff switch and maintenance disconnect.

    Do I need to install these also? Does maintenance disconnect comes after this panel? Is it one like this
    SIEMENS LNF222R 60 Amp, 2 Pole, 240-Volt, Non-Fused, Outdoor Rated

    Would Intermatic PA600 Pool/Spa Emergency Shut Off Switch work as emergency switch?
    10K gallons, IG vinyl free form Radiant Pool, 1HP SuperFlo 2 speed pump, 175 sqft Hayward C17502 plus cartridge filter, Intex Krystal Clear Saltwater System CS8110 Model 54601EG, Jandy Pro Series Underwater Nicheless LED. 1 skimmer, 1 suction outlet, 3 returns, The Pool Cleaner. Pool installation in progress as of 09/24/2014.

  2. Back To Top    #2
    Mod Squad JohnT's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    Location
    SW Indiana
    Posts
    9,090

    Re: Electrical wiring help needed

    Your breaker needs to be GFCI for the pump. (680.22(B))

    Your outlet for the SWCG needs to be twist-lock and GFCI protected. (680.22(A)(1))

    You are required to have a convenience outlet between 6 and 20ft of the water. (680.22(A)(3)

    The requirements for the light junction box and transformer box are stated in 680.24. With a 12V light, you can use a deck box or an elevated pool-rated junction box that is 8" above the maximum possible water level.

    The maintenance disconnecting means is the emergency shutoff for the pump. It has to be at least 5ft from the water, visible from the pool and readily accessible. Generally in the feed to the pump. The switches you listed will work, though the Intermatic is only a 20A switch. If it works, the Intermatic would probably be the better choice.

    Your bond wire from the pool will need to go to the bonding lug on your pump, and possibly to a water bond in the plumbing.
    TFP Moderator
    20K Gallon 20X36 Vinyl Inground
    Hayward S244T Sand Filter with 1HP Whisperflo Pump. Liquidator C-201 and Solar Heat

  3. Back To Top    #3
    Mod Squad Bama Rambler's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2009
    Location
    SouthWest Alabama
    Posts
    22,347

    Re: Electrical wiring help needed

    I'd consider running a #6 awg out there with a 50 amp breaker feeding it and installing breakers in the panel for the individual loads. That way you're all done for whatever you need.
    Dave J. TFP Moderator
    24' x 52" Round AGP. 2hp/¼hp SPL Power-Flo 2-speed pump. 200sqft Waterway Cartridge Filter. 45MHP2(3GPD) Stenner Peristaltic Pump
    Pool School ----- Pool Math ----- TF-Test Kit

  4. Back To Top    #4

    Join Date
    Aug 2014
    Location
    Allen, TX
    Posts
    67

    Re: Electrical wiring help needed

    Thanks for quick reply guys. My Jandy LED light calls for 12V Class 2 transformer. Search at amazon returns all kind of transformer. Not sure which one would be OK for this. Any suggestions?
    10K gallons, IG vinyl free form Radiant Pool, 1HP SuperFlo 2 speed pump, 175 sqft Hayward C17502 plus cartridge filter, Intex Krystal Clear Saltwater System CS8110 Model 54601EG, Jandy Pro Series Underwater Nicheless LED. 1 skimmer, 1 suction outlet, 3 returns, The Pool Cleaner. Pool installation in progress as of 09/24/2014.

  5. Back To Top    #5
    Mod Squad Bama Rambler's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2009
    Location
    SouthWest Alabama
    Posts
    22,347

    Re: Electrical wiring help needed

    Just search for pool light transformer. You'll find what you need.

    The Intermatic PX300 is fairly reasonable.
    Dave J. TFP Moderator
    24' x 52" Round AGP. 2hp/¼hp SPL Power-Flo 2-speed pump. 200sqft Waterway Cartridge Filter. 45MHP2(3GPD) Stenner Peristaltic Pump
    Pool School ----- Pool Math ----- TF-Test Kit

  6. Back To Top    #6

    Join Date
    Aug 2014
    Location
    Allen, TX
    Posts
    67

    Re: Electrical wiring help needed

    Placed order today for 120' X 3 6 AWG coper wire, and 120' 8 AWG ground wire, 120' or 1" PVC conduit. 60 Amp breaker, Intermatic PE25300F control panel, Intermatic transformer PX50 for pool light and 20 amp backyard outlet. One thing I am not sure if I need or not is slip riser, or joint expansion.
    10K gallons, IG vinyl free form Radiant Pool, 1HP SuperFlo 2 speed pump, 175 sqft Hayward C17502 plus cartridge filter, Intex Krystal Clear Saltwater System CS8110 Model 54601EG, Jandy Pro Series Underwater Nicheless LED. 1 skimmer, 1 suction outlet, 3 returns, The Pool Cleaner. Pool installation in progress as of 09/24/2014.

  7. Back To Top    #7

    In the Industry

    bdavis466's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2014
    Location
    Riverside, CA
    Posts
    3,308

    Re: Electrical wiring help needed

    You don't necessarily need either unless you have a specific reason why you would require one
    -Brian-
    33K Pool/Spa, Pentair Equipment
    POOL BUILD
    Davis Custom Construction - Home Page

  8. Back To Top    #8

    TFP Guide

    Join Date
    Jun 2012
    Location
    western NY
    Posts
    1,557

    Re: Electrical wiring help needed

    Ground wire needs to be insulated, not bare, in this installation
    Unknown make 18' above ground (bought used in 1999) Sparco sand filter. Hayward 100,000 BTu heater. 2 speed pump

  9. Back To Top    #9

    Join Date
    Aug 2014
    Location
    Allen, TX
    Posts
    67

    Re: Electrical wiring help needed

    Thanks danpik, do you have specific section of NEC code that this requirements is stated in? I want to read it.
    10K gallons, IG vinyl free form Radiant Pool, 1HP SuperFlo 2 speed pump, 175 sqft Hayward C17502 plus cartridge filter, Intex Krystal Clear Saltwater System CS8110 Model 54601EG, Jandy Pro Series Underwater Nicheless LED. 1 skimmer, 1 suction outlet, 3 returns, The Pool Cleaner. Pool installation in progress as of 09/24/2014.

  10. Back To Top    #10
    JasonLion's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2007
    Location
    Silver Spring, MD
    Posts
    37,879

    Re: Electrical wiring help needed

    You need to keep bonding wire and grounding wire straight. Bonding wire is non-insulated in almost all cases, while grounding wire needs to be insulated in almost all cases. See for example 680-25(B) and 680-21(A)(1), or for an exception see 680-23(B)(2)(b).
    19K gal, vinyl, 1/2 HP WhisperFlo pump, 200 sqft cartridge filter, AutoPilot Digital SWG, Dolphin Dynamic cleaning robot
    Creator of PoolMath and Pool Calculator. Other handy links: Support this site, TF Test Kits, Pool School

  11. Back To Top    #11

    Join Date
    Aug 2014
    Location
    Allen, TX
    Posts
    67

    Re: Electrical wiring help needed

    I understand the difference between bonding and grounding. So, for grounding wire that will be run from the service panel to pool control center, in the conduit with other three wires (black, red, white), seems like I need 4th one that will be green? The fourth one, grounding wire cannot be bare copper wire. Am I right?
    10K gallons, IG vinyl free form Radiant Pool, 1HP SuperFlo 2 speed pump, 175 sqft Hayward C17502 plus cartridge filter, Intex Krystal Clear Saltwater System CS8110 Model 54601EG, Jandy Pro Series Underwater Nicheless LED. 1 skimmer, 1 suction outlet, 3 returns, The Pool Cleaner. Pool installation in progress as of 09/24/2014.

  12. Back To Top    #12
    JasonLion's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2007
    Location
    Silver Spring, MD
    Posts
    37,879

    Re: Electrical wiring help needed

    Correct.
    19K gal, vinyl, 1/2 HP WhisperFlo pump, 200 sqft cartridge filter, AutoPilot Digital SWG, Dolphin Dynamic cleaning robot
    Creator of PoolMath and Pool Calculator. Other handy links: Support this site, TF Test Kits, Pool School

  13. Back To Top    #13

    Join Date
    Aug 2014
    Location
    Allen, TX
    Posts
    67

    Re: Electrical wiring help needed

    I ordered additional 120' insulated #8 green wire. I can use bare one for bonding, so it will not go to waste. I was looking at getting a double pole 60 amp breaker. Should I get GFCI one to install in service panel? I see some that are dual function AFCI/GFCI also.
    10K gallons, IG vinyl free form Radiant Pool, 1HP SuperFlo 2 speed pump, 175 sqft Hayward C17502 plus cartridge filter, Intex Krystal Clear Saltwater System CS8110 Model 54601EG, Jandy Pro Series Underwater Nicheless LED. 1 skimmer, 1 suction outlet, 3 returns, The Pool Cleaner. Pool installation in progress as of 09/24/2014.

  14. Back To Top    #14
    Mod Squad jblizzle's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2010
    Location
    Tucson, AZ
    Posts
    37,389

    Re: Electrical wiring help needed

    I think you would want the last breaker before the pump / equipment to be a GFCI. I would not think you would want the breaker feeding the subpanel to be GFCI.

    AFCI should not be important in this use.
    Jason, TFP Moderator
    18k IG pebblesheen pool, Hayward ProLogic P4 w/ T-15 SWG, Pentair 1HP 2-speed Superflo, Hayward 6020 DE filter
    500 sqft Heliocol solar panels, ThePoolCleaner, TF-100 test kit w/ SpeedStir
    Pool School + Test Kit + PoolMath = A TROUBLE FREE POOL
    If you found TFP helpful and we saved you money ... Become a TFP Supporter!

  15. Back To Top    #15

    In the Industry

    bdavis466's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2014
    Location
    Riverside, CA
    Posts
    3,308

    Re: Electrical wiring help needed

    Jason is correct on both accounts. The breaker feeding the subpanel should be standard. The GFI breakers will be in the subpanel that feed the individual circuits. AFCI are for a completely different application and not needed in this instance.
    -Brian-
    33K Pool/Spa, Pentair Equipment
    POOL BUILD
    Davis Custom Construction - Home Page

  16. Back To Top    #16

    TFP Guide

    Join Date
    Jun 2012
    Location
    western NY
    Posts
    1,557

    Re: Electrical wiring help needed

    Quote Originally Posted by exptrade View Post
    thanks danpik, do you have specific section of nec code that this requirements is stated in? I want to read it.
    680.25(b)
    Unknown make 18' above ground (bought used in 1999) Sparco sand filter. Hayward 100,000 BTu heater. 2 speed pump

  17. Back To Top    #17
    Divin Dave's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2013
    Location
    Longview, Texas
    Posts
    4,926

    Re: Electrical wiring help needed

    Others are right about the GFCI.

    If the Main Breaker were a GFCI and tripped, you would not know which piece of equipment caused it to trip.
    It would be difficult at best to troubleshoot and find the problem. On top of that, a 60A GFCI would be considerably more expensive than a non-GFCI one.

    Your pump should have a GFCI,
    and your 120V outlets should be on GFCI
    Divin Dave,
    IG Vinyl, 15' x 30', 3 1/2' - 6' deep, Oval, ~15K gal, Intelliclor IC40, Intelliflo VS pump, Clean and Clear 420 Filter, auto-fill-disabled, Retrofit LED Color Light, Dolphin Nautilus Robot, TF100 Test Kit, Taylor K1766 Salt Test Kit, Tftestkit Pressure Gauge.
    www.tftestkits.net Experience- it's what's learned just after you needed it most !!

  18. Back To Top    #18

    Join Date
    Aug 2014
    Location
    Allen, TX
    Posts
    67

    Re: Electrical wiring help needed

    Thanks for all your help. I'll start wiring this weekend. Will let you know how it goes
    10K gallons, IG vinyl free form Radiant Pool, 1HP SuperFlo 2 speed pump, 175 sqft Hayward C17502 plus cartridge filter, Intex Krystal Clear Saltwater System CS8110 Model 54601EG, Jandy Pro Series Underwater Nicheless LED. 1 skimmer, 1 suction outlet, 3 returns, The Pool Cleaner. Pool installation in progress as of 09/24/2014.

  19. Back To Top    #19

    Join Date
    Aug 2014
    Location
    Allen, TX
    Posts
    67

    Re: Electrical wiring help needed

    Finally rain stopped and I had time to wire everything up. And I have a problem that I cannot figure out. Namely, GFCI breaker trips immediately. So I tried to isolate the issue by disconnecting all load lines, and still same issue. If I don't connect white wire to the bus, I can measure voltage between two poles, and it is 282V. Yes, 282V. Between one pole and white bus, 141V, same with other pole. Then I pulled the double pole GFCI breaker out, and then put just a single pole GFCI, same thing. Immediately trips. Now, in the same panel I have another regular breaker that feeds to GFCI outlet. That works fine, outlet never trips. I tested it with GFCI outlet tester, and it shows that it is wired correctly, and I can test that outlet. I don't know that else to do. Any sugestions?
    10K gallons, IG vinyl free form Radiant Pool, 1HP SuperFlo 2 speed pump, 175 sqft Hayward C17502 plus cartridge filter, Intex Krystal Clear Saltwater System CS8110 Model 54601EG, Jandy Pro Series Underwater Nicheless LED. 1 skimmer, 1 suction outlet, 3 returns, The Pool Cleaner. Pool installation in progress as of 09/24/2014.

  20. Back To Top    #20
    JasonLion's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2007
    Location
    Silver Spring, MD
    Posts
    37,879

    Re: Electrical wiring help needed

    If you are saying that you install the GFCI breaker in the panel, connect the coiled white wire to the neutral bus and turn the breaker on, without any load connections, and it trips instantly, then: either the coiled white wire is not connected properly to the neutral bus, or the GFCI breaker is defective, or something is seriously wrong with the panels basic wiring.
    19K gal, vinyl, 1/2 HP WhisperFlo pump, 200 sqft cartridge filter, AutoPilot Digital SWG, Dolphin Dynamic cleaning robot
    Creator of PoolMath and Pool Calculator. Other handy links: Support this site, TF Test Kits, Pool School

Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •