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Thread: Bypass automation

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    dumbcluck's Avatar
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    Bypass automation

    Anybody know what approach to take with an easy touch system to control a bypass valve ?
    The problem is that I need this valve closed when the pump is not running to avoid the spa draining and partially open when it's running in either pool (for spillover) or spa mode.
    I have placed the actuator on the valve and set the cams to open and close where I want them too but am unsure how to program it to come on and go off with the pump. The menu options don't include pump. I'm sure there is a simple answer to this but as many of you know, pentair manuals leave a bit to be desired and a phone call will get you a long long wait just to speak to someone who is usually just looking it up in a manual...
    Anybody mastered the pentair way of of thinking?
    My other alternative would be to rework a bunch of recently installed pipe, add a bunch of 90's and a backflow valve to stop spa drainage. Obviously I would prefer to solve this automation issue instead since I have already gotten this far with it.
    I already thought about just using it for spa mode and changing my pool/spa valve to open spa a bit for spillover but my current run settings(2000rpm) are not powerful enough to spillover even at 50/50.
    Any thoughts/ ideas appreciated .

    Thanks
    -Jimbo- My pool was full of dirt and trees. Now it's full of water and children!
    20k gallon inground pool, 18" raised spa 7' round, 8 jets, 3" spa plumbing. Pentair intelliflo 3hp vsp, Easy touch 4 w/ ic 40, CCP 420 cartridge filter, Raypak 407a w/ cupro nickel, Screen logic 2, Pentair intelliph, spa side remote, Pentair 5g color lights pool and spa, TF-100 test kit with speed stir and Dolphin Oasis Z5

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    JasonLion's Avatar
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    Re: Bypass automation

    You can assign a valve to turn when in pool mode, or spa mode, but not both. The only other option would be to assign the valve to an aux/feature circuit and then program that circuit to run at the same times as the pump, though that would not follow manual pump operation.

    On the other hand, you are doing something seriously strange to be in this situation in the first place. What are you bypassing? And why is that allowing the spa to drain down? I can't imagine any plausible plumbing setup that would have that effect.
    19K gal, vinyl, 1/2 HP WhisperFlo pump, 200 sqft cartridge filter, AutoPilot Digital SWG, Dolphin Dynamic cleaning robot
    Creator of PoolMath and Pool Calculator. Other handy links: Support this site, TF Test Kits, Pool School

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    dumbcluck's Avatar
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    Re: Bypass automation

    The bypass is because I have 3" plumbing to and from the spa. This helps to lower the gpm's being pushed through the filter and heater.
    The spa drains back through the filter when valve is left open.
    image.jpgimage.jpg
    Here is an older photo of installation.
    Manual mode is not a problem as if I was there pushing buttons I could easily hit the actuator switch.
    -Jimbo- My pool was full of dirt and trees. Now it's full of water and children!
    20k gallon inground pool, 18" raised spa 7' round, 8 jets, 3" spa plumbing. Pentair intelliflo 3hp vsp, Easy touch 4 w/ ic 40, CCP 420 cartridge filter, Raypak 407a w/ cupro nickel, Screen logic 2, Pentair intelliph, spa side remote, Pentair 5g color lights pool and spa, TF-100 test kit with speed stir and Dolphin Oasis Z5

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    Re: Bypass automation

    With one more 90 you could have plumbed the bypass return in before the existing check valve by swapping the bypass connection and the check valve positions on the return pipe.
    19K gal, vinyl, 1/2 HP WhisperFlo pump, 200 sqft cartridge filter, AutoPilot Digital SWG, Dolphin Dynamic cleaning robot
    Creator of PoolMath and Pool Calculator. Other handy links: Support this site, TF Test Kits, Pool School

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    dumbcluck's Avatar
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    Re: Bypass automation

    It was plumbed in by the pb who didn't really get the concept. I am left dealing with what is here.
    -Jimbo- My pool was full of dirt and trees. Now it's full of water and children!
    20k gallon inground pool, 18" raised spa 7' round, 8 jets, 3" spa plumbing. Pentair intelliflo 3hp vsp, Easy touch 4 w/ ic 40, CCP 420 cartridge filter, Raypak 407a w/ cupro nickel, Screen logic 2, Pentair intelliph, spa side remote, Pentair 5g color lights pool and spa, TF-100 test kit with speed stir and Dolphin Oasis Z5

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    Re: Bypass automation

    Why not just add a check valve at the spa return line? Are you bypassing your filter as well? Kinda hard to tell

    I wish the valve actuator programing was a little more in depth...like the ability to have multiple positions on several programs. I have a similar set up with a heater bypass. I have it set to activate in spa mode
    -Brian-
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    Davis Custom Construction - Home Page

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    Re: Bypass automation

    There isn't any room in the current set up to add a check valve without adding a few 90's.
    Yes it is bypassing the filter as we'll to cut down on gpm's to the filter when in spa mode due to 3" plumbing. It's an effort to prolong the life of filter and heater.
    -Jimbo- My pool was full of dirt and trees. Now it's full of water and children!
    20k gallon inground pool, 18" raised spa 7' round, 8 jets, 3" spa plumbing. Pentair intelliflo 3hp vsp, Easy touch 4 w/ ic 40, CCP 420 cartridge filter, Raypak 407a w/ cupro nickel, Screen logic 2, Pentair intelliph, spa side remote, Pentair 5g color lights pool and spa, TF-100 test kit with speed stir and Dolphin Oasis Z5

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    Re: Bypass automation

    It looks like there is room to put one in the 3" section of the spa return???
    -Brian-
    33K Pool/Spa, Pentair Equipment
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    Davis Custom Construction - Home Page

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    Re: Bypass automation

    That may be possible if I can find a 3" check valve. It would almost be in the ground though.
    Jason, the only way I can figure to run that actuator with the pump is during scheduled run times. Is that what you meant by not working manually? I think if that's the case then I would probably have to make it only for spa and figure out a new rpm configuration for the spillway and change the cam position in pool/spa actuator.
    I guess it's tarting to look like a new check valve may be needed anyway in which case the new actuator is kinda pointless.
    -Jimbo- My pool was full of dirt and trees. Now it's full of water and children!
    20k gallon inground pool, 18" raised spa 7' round, 8 jets, 3" spa plumbing. Pentair intelliflo 3hp vsp, Easy touch 4 w/ ic 40, CCP 420 cartridge filter, Raypak 407a w/ cupro nickel, Screen logic 2, Pentair intelliph, spa side remote, Pentair 5g color lights pool and spa, TF-100 test kit with speed stir and Dolphin Oasis Z5

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    Re: Bypass automation

    I would program the valve to bypass only when in spa mode. There is no real advantage to bypassing at any other time. You should be able to do that fairly easily by assigning the valve to spa. When in pool mode you should be running the pump at a much lower speed anyway.
    19K gal, vinyl, 1/2 HP WhisperFlo pump, 200 sqft cartridge filter, AutoPilot Digital SWG, Dolphin Dynamic cleaning robot
    Creator of PoolMath and Pool Calculator. Other handy links: Support this site, TF Test Kits, Pool School

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    Re: Bypass automation

    a 2.5" check valve would work just fine
    -Brian-
    33K Pool/Spa, Pentair Equipment
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    Davis Custom Construction - Home Page

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    Re: Bypass automation

    Jason, as stated I currently use the bypass in pool mode as well for the spillover. I run at 2000 rpms now for filteration. With bypass slightly cracked I get good spillover. If I use the pool/spa valve for spillover I get nothing at this setting. I would have to increase the speed to achieve spillover to filter the spa. I was trying to avoid this.
    Make sense?

    Davis, yeah I see a 2 1/2"- 3" available from jandy. I guess I'll have to look into that route.
    -Jimbo- My pool was full of dirt and trees. Now it's full of water and children!
    20k gallon inground pool, 18" raised spa 7' round, 8 jets, 3" spa plumbing. Pentair intelliflo 3hp vsp, Easy touch 4 w/ ic 40, CCP 420 cartridge filter, Raypak 407a w/ cupro nickel, Screen logic 2, Pentair intelliph, spa side remote, Pentair 5g color lights pool and spa, TF-100 test kit with speed stir and Dolphin Oasis Z5

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    Re: Bypass automation

    No, not really. You shouldn't have any problem at all getting it to spillover with 100% of the water going through the filter. If getting it to spillover requires bypassing the filter then something is wrong. For that matter, you shouldn't need 2000 RPM in spillover mode, it should spillover just fine at 1000 RPM and 100% filter, though you might need a little more RPM then that to get the skimmer(s) to work effectively.

    It sounds kind of like the pool/spa return valve actuator is not turning into spillover position when it should, though there are a couple of other things that might be going on.

    Also, since the builder screwed up on plumbing the bypass after the check valve, I would make them fix it (which is easy if you are familiar with PVC plumbing).
    19K gal, vinyl, 1/2 HP WhisperFlo pump, 200 sqft cartridge filter, AutoPilot Digital SWG, Dolphin Dynamic cleaning robot
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    Re: Bypass automation

    He is long gone and not coming back. I'm not sure about spillover mode.lm talking about when I open the pool/ spa valve up to as much as 50/50. I suspect you are referring to a mode where pool suction is 100% and spa return is also at 100%.
    I am currently talking about pool returns with enough also going to the spa to cause spillover simultaneously. Maybe that's the problem. Also could a tiny air leak be the reason it has trouble passing through the filter? Or am I just going about it all wrong?
    Thanks
    -Jimbo- My pool was full of dirt and trees. Now it's full of water and children!
    20k gallon inground pool, 18" raised spa 7' round, 8 jets, 3" spa plumbing. Pentair intelliflo 3hp vsp, Easy touch 4 w/ ic 40, CCP 420 cartridge filter, Raypak 407a w/ cupro nickel, Screen logic 2, Pentair intelliph, spa side remote, Pentair 5g color lights pool and spa, TF-100 test kit with speed stir and Dolphin Oasis Z5

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    Re: Bypass automation

    The spa should spillover even at very low flow rates and very low percentages going to the spa. You might not get enough flow to look the way you want it to look, but there should be at least a tiny amount of water going over the spillway even at the very lowest flow rates. If you mean that you aren't getting enough flow over the spillway to look right, but do have flow, then that is plausible (though still a little questionable). But if you mean that you don't get any water going over the spillover, then something is seriously wrong.

    There are various ways to set it up. Typically you only want the spillover running perhaps an hour a day, just enough to circulate the water in the spa. Too much spillover operation is going to create a lot of aeration, which will drive up the PH. Then the pool can get it's circulation in the remaining run time. Running in spillover mode all the time also uses more electricity. If your spillover looks good at low flow rates, then it is plausible to run the spillover all of the time you are in pool mode, though I wouldn't actually recommend that. But if you need 2000 RPM to get the spillover to look right and need to bypass the filter to get sufficient flow that is certainly not something you want to be doing all the time. You need a reasonable amount of water flowing through the filter. If you are in partial bypass mode all of the time you aren't going to get enough total filtration in plausible amounts of pump runtime, and will need to double or triple your electrical spending to get sufficient filtration.
    19K gal, vinyl, 1/2 HP WhisperFlo pump, 200 sqft cartridge filter, AutoPilot Digital SWG, Dolphin Dynamic cleaning robot
    Creator of PoolMath and Pool Calculator. Other handy links: Support this site, TF Test Kits, Pool School

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    Re: Bypass automation

    Ok. That makes sense.
    Pb wasn't helpful at all in programming. I had to do it all on my own. First pool so I'm not real knowledgable. All,that I think I know I learned on here from the helpful folks such as yourself.
    So only about an hour a day of spillover. Check.
    Not running it through bypass. Check.
    Lower rpm. Check.
    Some water does go to the spa if I crack the pool spa valve open just not enough for more than a dribble. In spillover mode should the valves be open all the way to spa? As in my previous question? I haven't really tried it that way. I will. I am still trying to learn this stuff as I am taking full responsibility for maintaining my own pool and equipment. It's a learning process. You have opened my eyes up to a different approach. It's easy to get caught up in one thing right or wrong and fight to make it work rather than try new things all the time. I'm open to better ways.
    Thanks for taking the time to help me understand..
    -Jimbo- My pool was full of dirt and trees. Now it's full of water and children!
    20k gallon inground pool, 18" raised spa 7' round, 8 jets, 3" spa plumbing. Pentair intelliflo 3hp vsp, Easy touch 4 w/ ic 40, CCP 420 cartridge filter, Raypak 407a w/ cupro nickel, Screen logic 2, Pentair intelliph, spa side remote, Pentair 5g color lights pool and spa, TF-100 test kit with speed stir and Dolphin Oasis Z5

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    Re: Bypass automation

    The simplest thing, and what I recommend, is to use spillover mode on the EasyTouch for an hour a day, which is 100% return to the spa and 100% suction from the pool. It is possible to set things up so some water goes both places all the time you are in pool mode, and some people do that, but there are too many disadvantages to that for me to recommend it.
    19K gal, vinyl, 1/2 HP WhisperFlo pump, 200 sqft cartridge filter, AutoPilot Digital SWG, Dolphin Dynamic cleaning robot
    Creator of PoolMath and Pool Calculator. Other handy links: Support this site, TF Test Kits, Pool School

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    Re: Bypass automation

    Thanks Jason.
    I did some new programming and think I have found a good solution. I put the bypass valve on spa mode and set up the spillover mode ( which wasn't previously programmed in) and programmed the easy touch to include spillover mode for one of the hours that the pump is running. This should solve my dilemma.
    Thanks for the heads up that I was going about entirely the wrong way.
    -Jimbo- My pool was full of dirt and trees. Now it's full of water and children!
    20k gallon inground pool, 18" raised spa 7' round, 8 jets, 3" spa plumbing. Pentair intelliflo 3hp vsp, Easy touch 4 w/ ic 40, CCP 420 cartridge filter, Raypak 407a w/ cupro nickel, Screen logic 2, Pentair intelliph, spa side remote, Pentair 5g color lights pool and spa, TF-100 test kit with speed stir and Dolphin Oasis Z5

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    Re: Bypass automation

    Can you post another angle of your plumbing? also, not quite following how having 3" in the ground to and from the spa lowers your flow rate through the filter and heater... It would lower pipe velocity and friction loss through those lines in the ground which could in theory increase the amount of flow through the filter and heater, unless you mean it's to lower the pressure being pushed through the filter and heater

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    Re: Bypass automation

    stebs, it is the other way around. The filter is lowering the max potential flow rate through the 3" pipes.
    19K gal, vinyl, 1/2 HP WhisperFlo pump, 200 sqft cartridge filter, AutoPilot Digital SWG, Dolphin Dynamic cleaning robot
    Creator of PoolMath and Pool Calculator. Other handy links: Support this site, TF Test Kits, Pool School

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