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Thread: Breakers keep tripping After 6 Weeks!

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    Breakers keep tripping After 6 Weeks!

    Hello to all,

    There are 2 breakers at the electrical/computer panel that have tripped intermittently when going thru different operations of the pool equipment & features.

    I had a pool guy come to my house that has been working/servicing pools for 25yrs. Here is his quote:


    "The breakers have tripped 6 times. This occurs when switching from auto to service and time out modes."
    The equipment is all Hayward.

    I still have a punch list w PB before final check, but wanted your opinions on what could be the issues, and how to make sure this is corrected before he's paid his last ck.

    Note: when all the electrical was originally installed 2-3 mo's ago, it was red-tagged by City Inspector bc the access panel was installed in front of the pool equipment. They then moved it to the side and from what I saw, he had to rerun all new home runs from house electrical panels to the new pool panel box.

    As always, thank you for your help.

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    dumbcluck's Avatar
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    Re: Breakers keep tripping

    Is it tripping the breakers at the house panel or inside the sub panel at the equipment pad?
    -Jimbo- My pool was full of dirt and trees. Now it's full of water and children!
    20k gallon inground pool, 18" raised spa 7' round, 8 jets, 3" spa plumbing. Pentair intelliflo 3hp vsp, Easy touch 4 w/ ic 40, CCP 420 cartridge filter, Raypak 407a w/ cupro nickel, Screen logic 2, Pentair intelliph, spa side remote, Pentair 5g color lights pool and spa, TF-100 test kit with speed stir and Dolphin Oasis Z5

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    Re: Breakers keep tripping

    Since this is new, the builder should fix it. There are multiple possibilities that would be difficult to diagnose without an in-depth onsite evaluation. You could hire an independent electrician to give you an opinion if you don't trust the builder's electrician to get it right.

    If you post pictures and details of everything, there might be something obvious that we could help with.

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    Re: Breakers keep tripping

    I had a similar problem -- the electricians initially installed a cheap GFCI from Home Depot which was too sensitive and had to come back to install the one recommended by Pentair which worked fine.
    14K Freeform Gunite w/60% Blue Quartz plaster, Quad DE filter, Intelliflo VS Pump + Booster for Cleaner, Aquacal Heat Pump

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    Re: Breakers keep tripping

    Sub panel at equip pad - thx

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    Re: Breakers keep tripping

    Zethacat & others,

    I informed the PB of your particular problem w a low quality GFI tripping your breakers too, and he had his electrican replace the one I had.
    I then asked if he tried recreating the problem and they said yes and said nothing tripped. I asked if he tried recreating it before replacing the breakers and the said no. I am going to have the same pool service guy come out and see if he can recreate it again since the GFI was replaced sometime tomorrow afternoon. I will post back.

    Next, if I am not mistaken, a GFI is usually tripped if an external source is not running propery or shorts out in that electrical loop. I am trying to discern how the cheap GFI can cause the breakers to trip if nothing is being plugged into that GFI or other outlets in that electrical loop? I would be real interested in what the electrician or Pentair had to say on why a cheal GFI would cause the main breakers to trip in your panel box? Zethacat, were you plugging something into the GFI that was causing it to trip, thus maybe the breakers too?

    thank you very much,
    tstex

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    Re: Breakers keep tripping

    If the breakers are gfci, then they can trip due to overcurrent or a ground fault. Cheap gfci breakers can trip if the power is pulled in a way that doesn't match the 60 hz sine wave of the supply. Variable speed pumps and some other appliances can have this problem.

    If the breakers are not gfci, then they are probably overloaded.

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    dumbcluck's Avatar
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    Re: Breakers keep tripping

    Gfi outlets (plugs) do not trip breakers. They simply trip themselves which is the little buttons on the front.
    A cheap gfi breaker could possibly trip due to bring cheap but I have never experienced this. They often trip if you attempt to share the neutral though. Each gfi circuit breaker needs to have its own separate neutral.

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    Re: Breakers keep tripping

    Thank you guys.

    I called a Hayward Tech and gave him Thea summary of all. I also emailed him 4 pictures: detailed on the main pool breaker box & Hayward computer, an auxiliary box w a 15amp breaker & the newly added separate gcfi box. He said GE was contacting the Hayward district mgr and ask him if any other electricians in his district have experienced my symptoms.

    Once he responds, I will post his follow up in this thread.

    Thx again,
    tstex

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    Re: Breakers keep tripping

    " Cheap gfci breakers can trip if the power is pulled in a way that doesn't match the 60 hz sine wave of the supply. Variable speed pumps and some other appliances can have this problem."

    Note, the pool service box & computer that ties back to our homes (2) 200amp service boxes, has (1) 50amp breaker serving the entire pool equipment pad. The main pool breaker box w the Hayward computer has (2) 20amp breakers & the auxiliary box has (1) 15amp breaker.

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    Re: Breakers keep tripping

    Are any of the breakers gfci? What equipment do you have?

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    Re: Breakers keep tripping

    Quote Originally Posted by JamesW View Post
    Are any of the breakers gfci? What equipment do you have?
    I am not sure if the breakers are gcfi, but I will verify in morning.

    Re equipment, I have an EcoStar VSP, 1.5 Hayward scupper pump for two scuppers, 4000K BTU HAYWARD Spa Heater, blower, full blown Hayward computer panel w remote and cell phone operation, two gas fire bowls, cartridge filtering system, Hayward shark robot (not in possession yet) 16.5K gallon pool & 8 jet spa 8.5' x 8.5', 1 spa LED color logic light & 2 LED color logic pool lights, 2 pool skimmers, 7 inbound water lines, 2 drains.

    That's about it.

    Thank you, tstex

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    dumbcluck's Avatar
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    Re: Breakers keep tripping

    If the breakers are gfi they will have a little button that you can push on them. Probably a yellow button.

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    pumps initial amp draws and operating amps

    Hello to all,

    Can someone pls help me w the following.

    Hayward EcoStar Pump Amp requirements:

    Initial or start-up amp's:
    Sustained operating amp range:

    Thank you very much,
    tstex

    - - - Updated - - -

    Wanted to confirm if the Hayawrd Super II 1.5HP Pump is:
    Initial draw: 18.6 Amps
    Operating 9.3 Amps

    Thank you very much.

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    Amp Draw & Operating Requirements

    Hello to all,

    Does anyone know the following Amp Requirements for the Hayward H400FDN 400,000 BTU Heater:

    Initial Amp draw requirements:
    Operating Amp requirements:

    Thank you very much,
    tstex

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    Re: pumps initial amp draws and operating amps

    EcoStar peak amps is 10.9 at 230 volts.
    Sustained amps varies all over the place depending on speed and plumbing details, from close to 0 up to about 10 amps.

    Operating current usage will also depend to some extent on many details of the plumbing.

    The Super II current usage depends on what voltage you have it setup for and which specific model you are talking about. The SP3015EEAZ tends to draw roughly 7 to 8.5 amps at 230 volts in normal operation.

    However, when thinking about circuit breakers, the only thing you should be looking at the the listed name plate amps. These are always listed on a plaque directly on the device. The typical operating current has nothing to do with figuring out a circuit breakers tripping problem.
    19K gal, vinyl, 1/2 HP WhisperFlo pump, 200 sqft cartridge filter, AutoPilot Digital SWG, Dolphin Dynamic cleaning robot
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    Re: Breakers keep tripping

    As always, thank you Jason.

    The Super II 1.5HP Pump Amp range states: 18.6 / 9.3 Amps I would guess 18.6amps at 120V and 9.3amps at 240 volts, yes?

    The house service panel now has a 70amp double polled breaker, and the outside service box for the pool equipments is as follows:

    20AMP double polled breaker: Main EcoStar VSP

    20AMP double polled breaker: Blower & "something else" I cannot read

    20 Amp single poll breaker: Lights

    Auxilliary box: 15amp single poll - FireBowls, Fire bowls state 2 AMPS

    Separate GCFI Box

    The only remaining components are the Heater, Super II Pump and the Controller: AquaConnect PS-8 AquaPod, so I guess these are the breaker w the blower.

    All of these clearly need to be labeled.

    THank you,
    tstex

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    Re: Breakers keep tripping

    Quote Originally Posted by tstex View Post
    Zethacat & others,

    I informed the PB of your particular problem w a low quality GFI tripping your breakers too, and he had his electrican replace the one I had.
    I then asked if he tried recreating the problem and they said yes and said nothing tripped. I asked if he tried recreating it before replacing the breakers and the said no. I am going to have the same pool service guy come out and see if he can recreate it again since the GFI was replaced sometime tomorrow afternoon. I will post back.

    Next, if I am not mistaken, a GFI is usually tripped if an external source is not running propery or shorts out in that electrical loop. I am trying to discern how the cheap GFI can cause the breakers to trip if nothing is being plugged into that GFI or other outlets in that electrical loop? I would be real interested in what the electrician or Pentair had to say on why a cheal GFI would cause the main breakers to trip in your panel box? Zethacat, were you plugging something into the GFI that was causing it to trip, thus maybe the breakers too?

    thank you very much,
    tstex
    I was referring to the actual breaker itself, not an outlet.

    GFCI breakers protects anything wired directly to the panel, regardless of outlet type.

    Likewise, a GFCI outlet protects whatever is plugged in to it regardless of breaker type.
    14K Freeform Gunite w/60% Blue Quartz plaster, Quad DE filter, Intelliflo VS Pump + Booster for Cleaner, Aquacal Heat Pump

  19. Back To Top    #19
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    Re: Breakers keep tripping

    From your description, all of the breakers are sized correctly.

    The Super II 1.5HP Pump Amp range states: 18.6 / 9.3 Amps I would guess 18.6amps at 120V and 9.3amps at 240 volts, yes?
    Correct.

    I don't remember you clearly saying which breaker(s) tend to trip.

    The most likely culprit is the "20AMP double polled breaker: Main EcoStar VSP". The EcoStar is an unusual kind of electrical load that causes problems for some CGFI breakers, typically inexpensive ones. This is a known issue that comes up occasionally. Ordinarily, replacing the breaker with a premium brand breaker resolves the problem.

    I would not expect any of the other breakers to have any problems unless something somewhere was defective and causing intermittent shorts.
    19K gal, vinyl, 1/2 HP WhisperFlo pump, 200 sqft cartridge filter, AutoPilot Digital SWG, Dolphin Dynamic cleaning robot
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    Re: Breakers keep tripping

    "I don't remember you clearly saying which breaker(s) tend to trip."

    The 2 double-polled 20AMPS sometimes togther 66% and either one or the other 33%, 4 & 2 respectively out of 6 times a breaker tripped. The breakers are Siemens and they do have white/sq test buttons. The 15 amp for the lights has never tripped. Thank you Jason

    Quoted by zcat:

    "I had a similar problem -- the electricians initially installed a cheap GFCI from Home Depot which was too sensitive and had to come back to install the one recommended by Pentair which worked fine. "

    "I was referring to the actual breaker itself, not an outlet."

    ZethCat, thanks for your clarification. Either way, it seems replacling the GCFI outlet has helped resolve my problem, at least for the moment. Once things are up and running again this moring, I am going to test them again.

    Appreciate everyone's follow-up.

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