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Thread: New build in South La. Look over this bid if you dont mind. Thanks

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    New build in South La. Look over this bid if you dont mind. Thanks

    pool1.jpg

    Hello All,
    Well the time has come to build in South La. This is my first bid, a reputable builder who has shown us some very nice pools he's built. What do you think of the bid? $41K

    1. Freeform type pool 454’ Salt water pool with 94’ perimeter.

    2. 3.5'-7' Deep.

    3. Plans and permits.

    4. Liability and workers comp coverage.

    5. Layout, excavation and form.

    6. 3/8 Steel rebar to be placed at 10” intervals.

    7. Shell to be a minimum of 6” thick.

    8. 12” beam around entire pool.

    9. 1/4 inch poly void spacing caulked for expansion between coping and concrete.

    10. Required grounding of pool shell, decking and equipment.

    11. (2) Skimmers with dedicated lines, 2 anti-vortex main drains with dedicated line. All

    plumbing within 35 feet included. Anything over is extra.

    12. (4) Returns with directional eyeballs.

    13. Customer to supply electrical to pool equipment location. Builder to

    supply from there to all pool equipment including lights etc. If my electrician needs

    to run the supply line to the panel he usually charges me $2 per linear foot. You

    want my electrician to run the feeder line before hiring someone if it is needed. He

    will charge me about $100-$125 to do it if necessary.

    14. Stone coping for pool same as my other pools. Customer to choose waterline tile

    with $6 dollar allowance per sq. ft.

    15. (1) Pentair Legend Pool Sweep.

    16. Plaster to be customers choice "Diamond Brite" (water color series is very nice).

    17. (1) Pentair Variable Speed Whisperflo...top of the line pump.

    18. Pentair CNC 420.

    19. Pentair Easy Touch 4 Panel with IC 20 Salt Cell Generator.

    20. (1) Pentair white pool light. You can upgrade to color for about $350 each.

    21. (1) Set of 3 Bubblers on the tanning bed.

    22. (700’) Concrete with Sundek cool decking (customer to choose color).

    23. (1) Year warranty on entire pool.

    24. (3) Year Manufacturer’s warranty on equipment.

    25. (10) Year warranty on Diamond Brite Plaster.

    26. Lifetime non-transferable warranty on gunite shell.

    27. Landscaping by other.

    28. Grading by other.

    29. Gas Line by other. I have someone to do this if necessary. $25 per linear foot.

    30. All start up chemicals, pole, net, brush, vacuum hose & head included.

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    JasonLion's Avatar
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    Re: New build in South La. Look over this bid if you dont mind. Thanks

    In general that looks like a good bid. I like the equipment they listed and the price is reasonable.

    However, I don't like "28. Grading by other." That seems awfully open ended. In the worst case that could mean they will simply pile up the dirt removed during excavation and leave it for you to deal with. I would definitely seek some clarification on that as this line item is fairly non-standard. It is quite common to see landscaping by other, and gas line and electrical line runs are done that way now and then, but the builder should be taking responsibility for standard grading and removal of any material that needs to be removed and replacement of any material that needs to be replaced.

    Keep in mind, they are going to tear up your yard something fierce. Landscaping, which is your responsibility, is probably going to include replacing grass ruined by the construction over substantial areas of the yard, including some spots well away from the pool depending on the access route used by the heavy equipment. Construction is also likely to damage any irrigation/watering system you currently have, if you have something like that, and I suspect they aren't paying for that either.
    19K gal, vinyl, 1/2 HP WhisperFlo pump, 200 sqft cartridge filter, AutoPilot Digital SWG, Dolphin Dynamic cleaning robot
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    Divin Dave's Avatar
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    Re: New build in South La. Look over this bid if you dont mind. Thanks

    Hi
    Thats not a bad bid at all IMO. I agree with everything Jason says.

    I did notice one thing on your equipment list that should be reconsidered.
    The IC 20 SWG is going to be to small for that pool. To get the most of your SWG, I would recommend you go with a IC40.
    The larger IC40 will mean running it at a lower output % which meands longer life of the cell and lesser pump run time in order to keep your chlorine level where it should be. I think sticking with the IC 20 will be a battle in the long run.

    As for the electfical work ... if you dont mind subbing out the electical work yourself, then OK. If you dont know what to do though, then have the PB include it.

    It isnt mentioned anywhere, but I would also find out if the bid includes valves for all of the lines at the equipment pad. If not, then I would recommend to have them added. They can be extremely useful. As for the valves themselves, would recommend Jandy type valves, and not ball valves from the hardware store.
    Divin Dave,
    IG Vinyl, 15' x 30', 3 1/2' - 6' deep, Oval, ~15K gal, Intelliclor IC40, Intelliflo VS pump, Clean and Clear 420 Filter, auto-fill-disabled, Retrofit LED Color Light, Dolphin Nautilus Robot, TF100 Test Kit, Taylor K1766 Salt Test Kit, Tftestkit Pressure Gauge.
    www.tftestkits.net Experience- it's what's learned just after you needed it most !!

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    Mod Squad kimkats's Avatar
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    Re: New build in South La. Look over this bid if you dont mind. Thanks

    Was there any talk about payment timing and amounts?

    There have been quite a few pools that did not go as planned and the contract called for finial payment before the finished punchlist was done.

    I will look around for the best way to do it.

    Kim
    TFP Moderator 33x52 round AG 25,600 gals Sand Filter 1.5hp Pump - 2 Speed, SLAM, Pool School, Recommended Levels, Recommended Chemicals, Pool Math, Chlorine/CYA Chart, TF-100 Test Kit

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    Re: New build in South La. Look over this bid if you dont mind. Thanks

    Make sure all sub-contractor work is warrantied, not just the equipment. Some contracts have a stipulation that the warranty does not extend to plumbing, stonework, cracks in decking, stains on plaster, etc. on the back where you have to initial stuff. That's basically everything but the shell. Be sure not to initial anything like that.
    14K Freeform Gunite w/60% Blue Quartz plaster, Quad DE filter, Intelliflo VS Pump + Booster for Cleaner, Aquacal Heat Pump

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    I included the contract if anyone has time and would like to read over it. Thanks ag

    That the Contractor and the Owner, for the consideration herein after named, agree and bind and obligate themselves as follows:

    Contractor to construct a swimming pool in accordance with the attached plans and specifications. In the event of conflicts between documents, specifications to govern.

    Owner agrees and obligates to pay Contractor the sum of __________________________ dollars ($________________) for the above-described work/project, together with any additional costs including, but not limited to, amounts for change orders, extra work, overages, and/or escalated costs of materials, payable as follows:

    PAYMENTS

    35% when contract is signed.
    35% draw when gunite has been sprayed.
    25% when tile and coping have been installed.
    5% when plaster has been applied.

    In the event Contractor has substantially performed the work necessary to make a particular stage draw, but one or more items have not been completed due to circumstances beyond Contractor’s control, then Contractor shall be entitled to a partial draw in an amount equal to the percentage of such stage completed by Contractor.

    Owner shall be in default of the Contract if (a) Owner fails to pay any draw to Contractor within (3) business days of its due date, following receipt of Contractor’s invoice therefore. In the event of Owner’s default, Contractor may suspend work until Owner cures such default. Contractor shall be under no obligation to complete any punch list or perform any warranty or any other work until Owner cures all defaults. In the event payments are not made within three (3) days as described above, Owner shall be considered in default and owe to the Contractor, the unpaid balance, together with interest from the date payment is due until paid, at a rate of one and one-half percent (1.5%) per month, plus any and all cost of collection, including but not limited to reasonable attorney’s fees, expert witness fees, costs of depositions, filing fees and other court costs.

    SELECTIONS/SUBCONTRACTORS:
    The project is to be completed through Contractor’s approved suppliers and subcontractors. In the event items are furnished by the Owner, their suppliers or other subcontractors, no warranty will be provided by the Contractor and the Owner’s sole remedy will be the product warranty by the manufacture or installer for which the Contractor will not be responsible. However, all expenses whether incurred, expensed or accrued by the Contractor, Owner or by others on behalf of the Contractor or Owner shall be added to the cost of the project for the purposes of computing Contractor’s fee.

    Contractor shall not be responsible for any changes, substitutions and/or variations made to the plans and/or specifications unless said changes, substitutions and/or variations are submitted to the Contractor in writing, agreed upon, and signed by both parties. However, Owner further understands and agrees that Owner is responsible for all changes, substitutions and/or variations, regardless of submission in writing, and that Contractor is neither responsible nor liable for any costs arising from communication and/or miscommunication of the Owner’s instructions to Contractor’s employees, sub-contractors, representatives, and the like and that Owner is responsible for Contractor’s costs in calculating and implementing changes. Contractor reserves the right to refuse to implement any changes as requested by the Owner.


    COMMENCEMENT OF CONSTRUCTION (check one)
    __X_ Construction to begin as soon as permits are issued and LaOneCall has marked applicable utilities.

    COMPLETION OF CONSTRUCTION (check one)
    ____ Completion is determined when the Parish issues final approval for the project.
    __X__ Completion is determined when the project is fit for its intended use.

    In any event, completion is to be within one-hundred twenty (120) days after commencement of construction excluding weather delays and delays caused by Owners or change orders. This time period may, at Contractor’s option, be extended one day for each day of delay, if construction is delayed due to weather, fire, strikes, material shortages, labor shortages, Acts of God, Owner delays, or other normal variations in the construction process including, but not limited to, the selection, ordering, manufacture, and/or installation of components or Owner selections. Failure of Contractor to timely complete shall not be considered default.

    In the event that Owner delays construction or causes construction to halt, Owner will be penalized in the amount of $0.00 per day until work can be resumed. Owner is to give a punch list to Contractor two weeks after substantial completion, or upon notification by the Contractor.

    INDEMNITY:
    Owner understands and agrees that neither owner nor any guest of owner shall be allowed on the jobsite without the express permission of Contractor and unless accompanied by Contractor. Owner shall, to the fullest extent provided by law, indemnify and hold harmless the Contractor from any claim, liability, or costs (including reasonable attorney’s fees and all costs of defense) for any and all damages, economic loss, property damage, bodily injury, mental anguish, and/or any other loss to Owner, guests, or others arising or allegedly arising from the work and/or under this Contract, except any loss or claim due solely to contractors gross negligence or intentional fault.

    CONTRACTOR WARRANTY:
    Contractor shall not be responsible for Owner’s failure to read and/or understand the plans and/or specifications. Contractor warrants for one (1) year that all labor will be performed in a workmanlike manner and that all materials and equipment incorporated into the work will perform to industry standards. Contractor warrants a Lifetime Warranty on the gunite shell, through Gunite Express, for as long as the homeowner owns their home. Contractor warrants for three (3) years all electrical panels, pumps and filters. Pool sweep pump warranty is for 1 year. All This warranty shall be exclusive and Owner waives any and all other remedies and/or causes of action, including but not limited to claims for non-pecuniary damages, breach of contract and negligence, against Contractor. In addition, Owner shall be responsible for any and all soil testing and/or soil compaction and Owner further waives any claim against Contractor for any loss or damage, including but not limited to property damage, bodily injury or mental anguish caused by soil conditions or soil movement, including (but not limited to) cracks in concrete, gunite, mortar, bricks or tile, and/or damage to plumbing, equipment, or fixtures. Brian Keith Pools will do whatever we can to prevent cave-ins. Should any part of the pool slough off due to poor soil conditions or weather (rain)…there may be an additional charge to repair the damage. Owner is hereby made aware that all concrete cracks. Please note: If the sewer line is in the way it must be re-routed by a licensed plumber at homeowner’s expense. La One Call does not mark the sewer line!!! Contractor’s quality standards shall be governed by industry standards.

    PLASTER: Plaster finish and watercolor are considered to be subjective and your watercolor will be unique to your pool and its surroundings. You can expect the color of the plaster and water to vary depending on a variety of influences such as the position of the sun, cloud cover, pool design, landscaping, pool depth and water chemistry. Brian Keith Pools makes no warranty or guarantees to the finished color of the pool plaster or water color. Modeling is inherent in all pools and cannot be avoided.

    DEFAULT: The parties understand and agree that if the Owner defaults, the Owner shall be liable to the Contractor for all costs, including reasonable attorney’s fees, incurred in enforcing any rights under this Contract. In the event of Owner’s default, including Owner interference with Contractor’s performance under this Contract, Contractor may suspend work without penalty until Owner cures such default. Contractor shall be under no obligation to complete any punch list or perform any warranty or any other work until Owner cures all defaults. Payments due and unpaid under this contract shall bear interest from the date payment is due at the rate of one and one-half percent (1.5%) per month.

    DISPUTES:
    Contractor, in its sole discretion, may require that any disputes between the parties arising out of, or relating to, this agreement or the breach thereof, or the project be mediated which mediation, unless the parties mutually agree otherwise, shall be in accordance with the Construction Industry Mediation Rules of the American Arbitration Association currently in effect. The parties shall share the mediator’s fee and any filing fees equally. The mediation shall be held in the place where the Project is located, unless another location is mutually agreed upon. Agreements reached in mediation shall be enforceable as settlement agreements in any court having jurisdiction thereof. In the event that mediation is not successful, Contractor, in its sole discretion, may require that said disputes or claims be decided by arbitration in accordance with the construction industry arbitration rules of the American Arbitration Association currently in effect, unless the parties mutually agree otherwise. The award rendered by the arbitrators shall be final, and judgment may be entered upon it in accordance with applicable law in any court having jurisdiction thereof.

    All agreements and stipulations herein contained, and all obligations herein assumed, shall inure to the benefit of and be binding upon the heirs, successors, and assigns of the respective parties hereto.

    Any errors, omission, and/or ambiguities with regard to the meaning of terms and/or conditions herein stated shall not be construed against the maker of this document.

    This document has important legal consequences. Consultation with an attorney is encouraged with respect to its completion or modification.

    See Bid Letter for construction list breakdown.

    I have read and understand the terms and conditions of the foregoing agreement.

    Signature Date

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    Re: New build in South La. Look over this bid if you dont mind. Thanks

    I would cross out the whole part about:
    " All This warranty shall be exclusive and Owner waives any and all other remedies and/or causes of action, including but not limited to claims for non-pecuniary damages, breach of contract and negligence, against Contractor. In addition, Owner shall be responsible for any and all soil testing and/or soil compaction and Owner further waives any claim against Contractor for any loss or damage, including but not limited to property damage, bodily injury or mental anguish caused by soil conditions or soil movement, including (but not limited to) cracks in concrete, gunite, mortar, bricks or tile, and/or damage to plumbing, equipment, or fixtures. Brian Keith Pools will do whatever we can to prevent cave-ins. Should any part of the pool slough off due to poor soil conditions or weather (rain)…there may be an additional charge to repair the damage. Owner is hereby made aware that all concrete cracks. Please note: If the sewer line is in the way it must be re-routed by a licensed plumber at homeowner’s expense. La One Call does not mark the sewer line!!! Contractor’s quality standards shall be governed by industry standards. "


    Also "Modeling is inherent in all pools and cannot be avoided. " in the plaster section

    And at the very least "5% when plaster has been applied." should be changed to "5% when project and all punch list items are completed." -- might even want to consider bumping that to 10%

    - - - Updated - - -

    Also this whole section:

    "However, Owner further understands and agrees that Owner is responsible for all changes, substitutions and/or variations, regardless of submission in writing, and that Contractor is neither responsible nor liable for any costs arising from communication and/or miscommunication of the Owner’s instructions to Contractor’s employees, sub-contractors, representatives, and the like and that Owner is responsible for Contractor’s costs in calculating and implementing changes. "

    That last one could get you in a whole lot of trouble
    14K Freeform Gunite w/60% Blue Quartz plaster, Quad DE filter, Intelliflo VS Pump + Booster for Cleaner, Aquacal Heat Pump

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    Mod Squad kimkats's Avatar
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    Re: New build in South La. Look over this bid if you dont mind. Thanks

    Oh and make sure there is a way you can make SURE the sub-contractors have been paid so save you from having a lien placed on your house if/when they come after you.

    Kim
    TFP Moderator 33x52 round AG 25,600 gals Sand Filter 1.5hp Pump - 2 Speed, SLAM, Pool School, Recommended Levels, Recommended Chemicals, Pool Math, Chlorine/CYA Chart, TF-100 Test Kit

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    Re: New build in South La. Look over this bid if you dont mind. Thanks

    Thanks for all the help KimKats and others. How does it usually go when you tell a contractor you dont like part of the contract? Do they usually change it for you or just pack their bags and move on? Thanks again.

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    Mod Squad kimkats's Avatar
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    Re: New build in South La. Look over this bid if you dont mind. Thanks

    It depends on your PB. If they want your business they will work with you.

    Do you really want to give this much money to someone that will not work with you on the contract?

    What I am telling you is to help YOU have the upper hand (money) so that your pool is built the way YOU want it and done before the last payment is made.

    Kim
    TFP Moderator 33x52 round AG 25,600 gals Sand Filter 1.5hp Pump - 2 Speed, SLAM, Pool School, Recommended Levels, Recommended Chemicals, Pool Math, Chlorine/CYA Chart, TF-100 Test Kit

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    Divin Dave's Avatar
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    Re: New build in South La. Look over this bid if you dont mind. Thanks

    Swamp Rabbit,
    you are the customer, if the PB isnt willing to negotiate some of the points of the contract, then there may be good reason.

    My main concern with how the contract is written is
    1. All Concrete cracks - yes it does, but there are industry application standards and techniques that can minimize where the cracking occurs, such as installing expansion and control joints. These things ensure you suffer minimum cracking and will keep your concrete attractive for many many years. Suggest that there is some measure of Quality Control relating to this subject. FWIW. even extremely poorly mixed and applied concrete will last likely last more than 1 year which is the length of warranty. In which case you are screwed. Some measure of QC may cost you a little money, but it will be money well spent.

    2. Plaster - The last sentence ... to some degree all plaster does suffer from some minor mottling (he spelled it modeling, which is wrong), but here again, the severity of it is as much due to the mix and application of it as anything. Again, some measure of Quality Control needs to be in place so that you are protected from poor mix and application. If it mottles because of poor water chemistry, then shame on you!

    3. Hold final payment of 5 percent until the pool is finishished and all equipment operates as inteded by the manufacturerer and the site is cleaned up and all the trash is hauled off.
    Divin Dave,
    IG Vinyl, 15' x 30', 3 1/2' - 6' deep, Oval, ~15K gal, Intelliclor IC40, Intelliflo VS pump, Clean and Clear 420 Filter, auto-fill-disabled, Retrofit LED Color Light, Dolphin Nautilus Robot, TF100 Test Kit, Taylor K1766 Salt Test Kit, Tftestkit Pressure Gauge.
    www.tftestkits.net Experience- it's what's learned just after you needed it most !!

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    Re: New build in South La. Look over this bid if you dont mind. Thanks

    Also, do you yourself know where the sewer line is? Contractor specifically states La One does NOT mark the location of the sewer line.
    14K Freeform Gunite w/60% Blue Quartz plaster, Quad DE filter, Intelliflo VS Pump + Booster for Cleaner, Aquacal Heat Pump

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