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Thread: high cyanuric levels

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    high cyanuric levels

    I have 20X40X (8.5 deep) gunite pool, 34000 gallon, and 8X8 1200 gallon gunite spa, separate units, no waterfall, with underground equalizer pipe that is closed all times, on one Hayward DE 72 filter and one 400,000 gas heater system with JVA's controllers, and RS8 automation governed by a wireless Jandy Touchlink system. There is a Zodiac Nature2 combination salt water generator and mineral feeder that only chlorinates and treats when the pump is running. Both pool and spa have motorized Zodiac automatic covers so evaporation and rain dilution is zero all the time. I use 2 floating chlorinators since chlorine tabs where I live are very cheap at 90 cents a pound and only run the pump 2 hours a day. I have to chlorinate the water in the winter since winters are warm, with the floaters to prevent algae, under the winter cover, since the plumbing is winterized. I constantly have very high cyanuric acid levels all the time, summer and winter, and have to dump water from the pool very often and empty the spa completely and frequently to get rid of cyanuric acid (levels are running 150 to 200). Also can't use cal hypo with the high calcium hardness gunite pool water requires. Pump run times are short because the water is always very clean. A bleach feeding system still requires pump run time to work. Dropping bleach bottles requires being at home every day and raises salt levels even higher in SWG setup pool, so not an option. Only options remaining is liquefied bottled chlorine gas (CL2) feed via a deep end bubbling system (no circulation pump run time needed) or a commercial European ozoninator for a 35,00 gallon capacity pool. The cost of bottled CL2 gas is $350 for a fill of a K or H tall steel cylinder with $175 deposit for the tank and needs upright chained transportation or get a residential delivery for an extra fee. Cannot find much information on this website how to build and set up a CL2 deep end gas bubbling system. Ozone production is constant every 20 minutes and not sure how this works in the winter time. Large volume ozone machines seem very costly, and likely need to be imported from countries where they are popular. Is the only cost effective solution to keep constantly dumping water?

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    Re: high cyanuric levels

    How much per thousand gallons does your water cost?

    How many thousands do you dump annually to control the CYA?
    Dave S.
    42k vinyl and concrete pool, 1.5hp pump, 140gpm filter
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    Divin Dave's Avatar
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    Re: high cyanuric levels

    Your best solution and most long term cost effective, is to get your CYA level down to a manageable level and then manage the CYA from that point forward so it doesn't get so high again. There really isnt a reasonable alternative to properly maintaining the CYA.

    Also, using bleach as your source of chlorine in winter time will not raise your salt level to the extent that your SWG will care. Literally 100's if not 1000's of us here on TFP with SWG's use bleach when the water temp is < 50F without any ill effects whatsoever.
    Divin Dave,
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    Re: high cyanuric levels

    In southern New York where I live water is $ 1.249 per 100 Cubic Feet or $ 1.67 per 1,000 Gallons with a $20.73 Service Charge Per Quarter. Its low compared to rest of the country. There is a lot of heavy rain here but this doesn't help because if the solid automatic Zodiac covers are left open during rainfall there is enormous leaves and debris going in with the rain water and high winds. The cleanup after open covers with heavy rain and wind is very labor intensive and difficult during the 8 months the pumps are shutdown and winterized. I'm dumping about 4000 gallons a month in the 4 summer months and 1000 a months the rest 8 months so annually this is 20,000 gallons a year of clean clear water for the sole purpose to reduce CYA levels. This bring the CYA from 180 to 75 but still high. If dump more than half the pool water, I need to get a costly dewatering setup so the gunite pool doesn't eject, crack and lift out of the ground from the high groundwater. This mistake for the sake of CYA reduction would be very risky and costly, basically catastrophic and would have to be done multiple times. So based on these water costs it seems it would be less than $50 a year to dump all that water and refill and this would be done frequently with supervision (labor intensive) so as not to damage the pool. I have 300 pounds of 3 inch trichlor that I will never use I the next 5 years that I bought at 90 cents a pound especially when switching to bleach, ozone, or liquefied chlorine gas will diminish the use of trichlor tabs. What is the shelf life expectancy of 3 inch trichlor tablets left untouched in original container? I'm figure I'm looking at 10 years before they will get used here unless I give them away to whoever wants it. The SWG is very limited based on the pump run times which are negligibly short in the summer and zero in the remainder 8 months. So getting CYA levels down, as you mentioned above, is work intensive, a constant battle, and easier said than done. If I understand from what you wrote bleach as the source of chlorine doesn't increase salt levels as much as a SWG? Won't the bleach raise salt levels even higher in SWG pool which again would require dumping of water to prevent damage to the electrodes from high salt levels? Does the SWG deplete salt levels by generating chlorine and hydrogen gases as well as soluble caustic soda? How does the water chemistry of SWG compare to bubbling chlorine gas (CL2) in terms of byproducts such as salt? Is lithium chloride at $5 a pound the solution? Can this whole thing with chlorine as an oxidizer of organic material be avoided by a very expensive and large ozone generator that runs oxidation 24 hours a day 7 days a week? Still I see no information on this forum who has a pressurized liquefied bottled gas chlorine system and how its setup with or without automation systems. It would seem this could be bubbled directly in the deep end using a hose and can be done year round with the pumps and pipes winterized and possibly left unsupervised without need to open the winter cover as in the case of using bleach bottles, dump and test all the time. Do the chlorine gas bubbles completely dissolve before reaching the water surface so as to not create gas under a closed opaque pool cover? Any news about a chemical to eliminate or neutralize CYA?

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    Re: high cyanuric levels

    Wow those are big paragraphs ... not even sure how to answer with the number of questions buried in them.
    http://www.troublefreepool.com/threa...ur-post-simple

    Using chlorine gas requires permits and handling training and generally not available to private residential pools ... unless maybe if you happened to be in the industry.

    There are no chemicals that reliably remove CYA from the water. Water replacement or reverse osmosis (very limited availability) are the only 2 viable options.
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    Re: high cyanuric levels

    So sorry, the message came out to be too long--didn't realize it when I wrote it. Just put too many thoughts down at one time not realizing how long it would turn out. Even I don't like long messages so definitely no more of that! I am not even sure an expert in pool chemistry would have the answers having read quite a bit myself on these subjects.

    A side conversation was moved here.

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    Re: high cyanuric levels

    Is the only cost effective solution to keep constantly dumping water?
    At 1.67 / 1k, it will be hard to beat dumping your water. You've already done the math @ about $30-40 annually

    While you certainly have some misconceptions about bleach usage, you seem to be happy with your current system and it seems to be working for you......it's pretty hard to suggest a change.
    Dave S.
    42k vinyl and concrete pool, 1.5hp pump, 140gpm filter
    TFTestkits , PoolMath , Pool School

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    Re: Cyanuric Acid blues - draining pool

    Did the water overflow dump work to exchange the water properly. Did your CYA drop? I am going to try the same maneuver because I have high ground water and need dewatering running to empty the pool. Your idea is risk free without dewatering.

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    Re: high cyanuric levels

    Hey mitzie,

    I was wondering if you had an update to this. Your problems could be easily solved by getting the Cya down once, and going with Bleach or a SWG. It really is that simple.

    Cl gas is likely not a viable option although it would be something I would love to do with mine. You have to have major permitting, EPA registration/certification or reciprocity with a state agency to even be permitted to acquire and handle it. Then you have to consider the safety factor of family and neighbors that may be nearby.

    There are a precious few service companies that use it excelusively, but these are dwindling in numbers daily.
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