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Thread: Blue Christmas... Please help!!! (Long post)

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    Blue Christmas... Please help!!! (Long post)

    Some of you may know me from some of my previous postings about issues with iron. We have 4500 gallon indoor Endless Pool (which we are now calling the endless headache). We have a well and have had iron issues from the beginning (last August). I've read every metals post on this forum backwards, forwards, and inside out. I've tried every recommended remedy - all to no avail. We have yet to see blue water. We even went to the extreme of installing a DE filter (the pool came with a cartridge system) so we now have two filters running. We also drained the pool as far as we could, which is only about halfway because we have a large extra deep section and Endless Pools advises not to drain any lower than 6" from the standard depth to avoid liner sagging issues. We filled again with a metal out filter. Still brown water. Went back to the pool store two weeks ago out of desperation. Bought more Pool Magnet, some Sparkle Up, Calcium increaser, etc., etc., to the tune of $100 plus. Water still brown. Readings are:

    Calcium Harness: 135??
    Alkalinity: 150
    PH: 7.0
    Total Chlorine: 5
    Free Chlorine: 4
    Cyanuric Acid: ???

    Here's more of the craziness. My Taylor test showed no calcium hardness when I went to the pool store, and her computer test showed the same, so she had me add 2&1/2 lbs of harness increaser. A week later, my test still showed zero. So did her computer test, but then she tried hand testing and got 135. When I first went in, my water tested 1.6 for iron. Next time it showed 2.6. They said that was because the iron was now sequestered??? (Water just as brown.) told me to keep adding Sparkle Up and wash out filter every 24 hours. Next time I went in, iron 1.0. They said this was because Sparkle Up was actually pulling the iron out of the pool. However, pool was still brown, and Sparkle Up coated filter was white as snow every time I washed it out.

    My test also shows no cyanuric acid (hers doesn't measure for it) even though I added cyanuric acid as per this forum's recommendation about a month ago.

    By the way, I've also got two CuLators in my filter basket. Obviously I now also have a combined chlorine issue, but raising the chlorine level is only going to turn the water darker brown. I honestly don't know where to turn at this point. All I want for Christmas is blue water. Help!
    New 4,500 gallon vinyl Endless Pool, Sta-rite PLD50 DE filter, indoor, heated. Well water with iron and copper.

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    pwrstrk's Avatar
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    Blue Christmas... Please help!!! (Long post)

    Have you replaced water since you added the CYA ? If you did that would result in little to no CYA level.
    Is having some water delivered an option for you ? I know in my area volunteer fire dept's will deliver water for pools. That's how I got mine filled as I'm on a well also. If you can have water delivered just confirm the source of the water. You'll want municipal water. Do you have a whole house water filter ?
    Sorry I can't help anymore as I don't have any experience with metals other than what's suggested in Pool School. Have you tried sequestrant's ? 😎
    Jeff
    24'x54" AG Morada RTR (by wilbar) 13'500 gal. Hayward Powerflo Matrix 1hp 2 speed. Hayward Perflex EC65 DE filter.

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    Swampwoman's Avatar
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    Re: Blue Christmas... Please help!!! (Long post)

    Hi there. I have a few tricks you can try. However, now that you've switched to DE, I don't think you can use FerriTabs unfortunately. (Read about thm here: http://www.ferriirontabs.com/ ) if you can bypass the DE, give em a try. It basically flocs out the iron that's now oxidized in your water via the filter. That's what's causing the brown. Without cya, your level of 5 ppm isn't helping...that def needs to be buffered...

    But if you cant byass the de filter, you migh try this: I had great success with five bottles for 23k gallons of metal magic this year...that's proteams metal sequestrant at a heavy dose. http://www.poolgeek.com/products/pro...tal-magic-1-qt

    At the 1.6-2 ppm range of iron in your raw water, you're going to need to consistently add sequestrant after the megadosr, eg weekly, to control the iron (so buy a case for the free shipping) And you're going to want to avoid shocking, because shocking leads to the oxidization that has your water brown, by staying on top of the sanitation at all times.

    However, since you have ccs, and you're indoor, I'm wondering if non-chlorine shock (eg the MPS type used in hottubs) would still oxidize the iron or not....worth investigating. Sorry i don't know.

    Lastly, have you considered a whole house softener system with an "iron curtain" attached (that's a special extension to remove the iron that the salt systems don't get, and costs another thousand or so depending on brand and installation). Sounds like solving the root problem will help you better enjoy the pool.
    Best wishes.
    In ground extended Grecian, 22,000 gal, Hayward 220t sand filter, vinyl liner, dolphin m4 supreme.
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    Re: Blue Christmas... Please help!!! (Long post)

    If you eliminate the iron coming into your pool, you can stop going to the pool store for all the magic ingredients to remove it......the vast majority of which do not work as you are finding out. DE has no affect on iron, either.

    In a pool that size, I would install a whole house water softener (that will eliminate the iron) and be done with it. It really is that simple assuming iron is your problem.

    Lack of CYA, CH too low and a 1.0 cc's test result can easily be resolved but you need to address the iron first.;....it is a completely separate issue.

    PS - copper does not normally occur in wells.......did you get a test result confirming copper? How much in ppb?
    Dave S.
    42k vinyl and concrete pool, 1.5hp pump, 140gpm filter
    TFTestkits , PoolMath , Pool School

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    Swampwoman's Avatar
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    Re: Blue Christmas... Please help!!! (Long post)

    Ps here's a link to the iron curtain: http://www.hellenbrand.com/commercia.../#.VIWl88u9KSM

    And Dualeigh, as usual, is correct.

    In most areas you can actually just have a rental agreement for a softener system with salt delivery...so no up front costs if you're trying to avoid same. For the iron curtain addition though, you'd have to purchase that as most don't rent it.

    Often, the softening system alone will reduce your iron to manageable numbers, so you could try that first.

    What's the ppm of iron in your well, assuming you've had it tested?
    In ground extended Grecian, 22,000 gal, Hayward 220t sand filter, vinyl liner, dolphin m4 supreme.
    If TFP has helped you, please click to SUPPORT TFP!
    Helpful Links:
    GET A TEST KIT Chlorine/CYA Chart How to SLAM About Metals & Stains

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    Re: Blue Christmas... Please help!!! (Long post)

    The iron from the tap was 3 something. Maybe the house system is the best idea. Do you need the iron curtain AND a softener? Our water is not hard. No calcium hardness in the raw water.
    New 4,500 gallon vinyl Endless Pool, Sta-rite PLD50 DE filter, indoor, heated. Well water with iron and copper.

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    Swampwoman's Avatar
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    Re: Blue Christmas... Please help!!! (Long post)

    Maybe in your case you could skip the softener then and just install the iron removal equipment...here's a sample, but talk to a water co. http://www.filterwater.com/p-220-iro...ole-house.aspx

    At 3 ppm I'm afraid your pool will be a never ending battle. Anything more (or sometime close to) .5 ppm will stain.
    In ground extended Grecian, 22,000 gal, Hayward 220t sand filter, vinyl liner, dolphin m4 supreme.
    If TFP has helped you, please click to SUPPORT TFP!
    Helpful Links:
    GET A TEST KIT Chlorine/CYA Chart How to SLAM About Metals & Stains

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    Re: Blue Christmas... Please help!!! (Long post)

    Call someone who deals with water softeners in your area and understands them. They can specifically target iron and remove it. You don't need a lot of magic "add-ons".....just a softener that removes iron.

    PS - I am surprised you don't have iron stains in your commode.
    Dave S.
    42k vinyl and concrete pool, 1.5hp pump, 140gpm filter
    TFTestkits , PoolMath , Pool School

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    Re: Blue Christmas... Please help!!! (Long post)

    Jackie, do you know the total dissolved solids in ppm for your well water? If the number is low, you might be able to consider a large DI (de-ionizing) filter to remove iron and other stuff from your source water. I used to use a reverse osmosis followed by a DI when I kept a saltwater aquarium, and it produced very pure water. Unfortunately, RO does most of the heavy lifting, but it is difficult to run on a well pump, and wastes large amounts of water. DI resin is consumed quickly without it, and your pool needs thousands of gallons processed through it...
    15k in-ground plaster, Hayward C900 cartridge, 3/4hp single speed pump, Barracuda G2 cleaner, TF-100

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