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Thread: Alright Guru's.....

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    Alright Guru's.....

    Long time lurker new poster and I'm admittedly stumped.

    -Gunite Spa with diamond Brite was leaking through the plaster, a leak detection company AnB puddy'd the cracks helping some.

    -I remove all DB and notice 4 minor cracks from the beam to to the floor

    -I also notice the gunite is crumbling in a few spots when removing the plaster

    - Large air pockets all along the hot tub

    - pictures showed that during gunite application there were puddles of water on the floor (is that normal)

    -Also shows one thin layer of wire mesh laid

    The PB has a reputation in the area for BAD work, what is the best method of repair long term? I'd like to fix it 100% before applying the new tile n DB.

    Thanks all

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    Re: Alright Guru's.....

    Any resurfacing ideas guys??

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    Re: Alright Guru's.....

    It sounds like the gunite shell is too compromised to be able to properly solve this problem without major structural work. If I am following correctly the gunite is cracked in several places and crumbling in places. That strongly suggests that the gunite was not properly formulated to begin with or was applied in too thin a layer.

    Wire mesh instead of gunite may or may not be an issue. There might be rebar that simply didn't show up in the pictures, or there may have been some other structural fiber used and the wire mesh was just to meet electrical code. On the other hand, if rebar is both missing and not properly substituted for, that could be a very serious problem, which could also account for the cracks, though it is less likely to account for the crumbling.

    In any case, any cracks must be structurally stabilized, any crumbling gunite replaced, and the entire shell evaluated for strength and repaired as needed before you can continue. From the sound of things, that is going to require removing the plaster, making major repairs, and re-plastering. Of course, I can't be certain as a full diagnosis depends on details that are difficult to convey in words.
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    Re: Alright Guru's.....

    How old is the pool?
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    Re: Alright Guru's.....

    Four years, he has beautiful stonework along the outside of the spa and a nice stone waterfall so I'm trying to do anything I can to save his spa from the shotty work performed

    Thanks

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    Re: Alright Guru's.....

    Quote Originally Posted by JasonLion View Post
    It sounds like the gunite shell is too compromised to be able to properly solve this problem without major structural work. If I am following correctly the gunite is cracked in several places and crumbling in places. That strongly suggests that the gunite was not properly formulated to begin with or was applied in too thin a layer.

    Wire mesh instead of gunite may or may not be an issue. There might be rebar that simply didn't show up in the pictures, or there may have been some other structural fiber used and the wire mesh was just to meet electrical code. On the other hand, if rebar is both missing and not properly substituted for, that could be a very serious problem, which could also account for the cracks, though it is less likely to account for the crumbling.

    In any case, any cracks must be structurally stabilized, any crumbling gunite replaced, and the entire shell evaluated for strength and repaired as needed before you can continue. From the sound of things, that is going to require removing the plaster, making major repairs, and re-plastering. Of course, I can't be certain as a full diagnosis depends on details that are difficult to convey in words.
    Thanks for the reply

    I have already removed all the plaster, the cracks are hairline cracks but he was losing water out of the for sure. My bid was to repair the cracks and prevent leaking, I just want to help this guy salvage his spa long term if plausible.

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    Re: Alright Guru's.....

    image.jpg

    image.jpg


    Here are the pics of the prep work the homeowner found, the mud puddles seem odd to me.

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    Re: Alright Guru's.....

    Alright, the mesh is rebar. It is thinner than I would like to see, but probably alright.

    Standing water is both fine and common during rebar and plumbing, but should be removed before gunite is applied. The second picture looks like the gunite installer getting ready to shot, with the water still present. That would cause some problem.
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    Re: Alright Guru's.....

    That is good to hear, not sure why the Gunite is starting to fail impossible to decipher anything else relative to the application.

    I would love to jackhammer the whole thing and start from scratch, but again a lot of expensive stone work would be comprimised. How would you suggest i band-aid this if it is my only option?

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    Re: Alright Guru's.....

    The key question is: Are the cracks still moving? If they are there is nothing remotely easy to do that will help for more than a short while. If the cracks are stable, i.e. not moving, then patching the gunite and re-plastering will take care of it.
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    Re: Alright Guru's.....

    I am not a pro so take this with a grain of salt but...What I find interesting is there is no rebar for the seats in the spa. Heck, there are only 3 for the light. I wouldn't normally point it out but if as Jason said, he is about to shoot the gunite then the rebar should already be there. There doesn't appear to be enough rebar at all. Most spas I see on here look like a big mesh cage. Even the bonding wire looks substandard.
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    Re: Alright Guru's.....

    Quote Originally Posted by Glock View Post
    I am not a pro so take this with a grain of salt but...What I find interesting is there is no rebar for the seats in the spa. Heck, there are only 3 for the light. I wouldn't normally point it out but if as Jason said, he is about to shoot the gunite then the rebar should already be there. There doesn't appear to be enough rebar at all. Most spas I see on here look like a big mesh cage. Even the bonding wire looks substandard.
    Correct. He has a reputation for building failing pools and spas, I'm just trying to salvage this shell for the homeowners sake. Again, I'd love to get a couple jackhammers in there and start from scratch...not sure he will go for it but at this point I feel like I must give him the option of a rebuild.

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    Re: Alright Guru's.....

    The major problems I see are the lack of dobys, standing water in the floor and pvc exposed on one side.

    Can we get pictures of what it looks like now?

    If the cracks are small and not moving then the repair might not be that bad. However if the gunite is compromised by the water or there are still moving cracks then you have a problem. Is the cracking cause by freeze thaw cycles or what? I'd wonder what is causing cracking of a guntie shell after 4 years.

    This is a DIY crack repair that has a very good discussion of cracks: http://www.troublefreepool.com/threa...ration-project

    Seats often are not structural so arguably don't require rebar. I gather Ohio doesn't require an engineer sign off on a spa.
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    Re: Alright Guru's.....

    Quote Originally Posted by gwegan View Post
    The major problems I see are the lack of dobys, standing water in the floor and pvc exposed on one side.

    Can we get pictures of what it looks like now?

    If the cracks are small and not moving then the repair might not be that bad. However if the gunite is compromised by the water or there are still moving cracks then you have a problem. Is the cracking cause by freeze thaw cycles or what? I'd wonder what is causing cracking of a guntie shell after 4 years.

    This is a DIY crack repair that has a very good discussion of cracks: http://www.troublefreepool.com/threa...ration-project

    Seats often are not structural so arguably don't require rebar. I gather Ohio doesn't require an engineer sign off on a spa.
    Correct, not required. The spa has never been closed down and ran all year so no freeze issues....I'm guessing just a horrible job is the reason for this. I will be back Friday to do more work to the spa and I will snap some more pictures.

    Thanks

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    Re: Alright Guru's.....

    If its crumbling after 4 years, I think a rebuild is the only long term solution. I would be really angry as that homeowner. Current pics would be cool to see though.
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    Re: Alright Guru's.....

    What benefits do rebar in spa seats add?? Many have mentioned it's not required, but should I insist that it's done because it isn't currently done and shotcrete planned for tomorrow...
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    Re: Alright Guru's.....

    Benches are not part of structural support. You'll be fine with no rebar.
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    Re: Alright Guru's.....

    Id like to know where the cracks are. Some pipe looks like it is placed high in shell.. Do the cracks follow plumbing? High piping acts like a control or expansion joint. As far as shooting on standing water, thats just crazy - particularly form mix at nozzle material.

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    Re: Alright Guru's.....

    Quote Originally Posted by PoolguyinCT View Post
    Id like to know where the cracks are. Some pipe looks like it is placed high in shell.. Do the cracks follow plumbing? High piping acts like a control or expansion joint. As far as shooting on standing water, thats just crazy - particularly form mix at nozzle material.
    Yes, for the most part the cracks are near the plumbing.

    I explained to the homeowner that I had no long term solution for such a poorly built structure.

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    Re: Alright Guru's.....

    Homeowner insisted a do mybest to patch it up and plaster (he had already bought material) hoping to get another season out of this before he blows it up and we re construct. I 'V' grinded cracks and primed and polyurethaned them and replastered.

    He is losing water still behind a fitting where we had no crack?? The lines have been pressure tested so somehow someway water is ALREADY finding its way out. Im very confused, any and all ideas are welcomed

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