Replacing pool pump - any recommendations?

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bbrock

bbrock

Well-known member
Apr 15, 2014
848
Livermore, CA
Pool Size
19000
Surface
Plaster
Chlorine
Liquid Chlorine
Hi Friends,
I am looking to replace my pool pump. Walked out to look at the equipment today and saw a leak/drip again at the pool pump housing. This is the same area that I had a service tech come out before and address. That time I think he just replaced the o-ring or seal in the pool housing (that round structure). Whatever the case, rather than dump money into a system that I will eventually replace, I was thinking that from a cost standpoint it is better to just bite the bullet now and upgrade from a single speed Pentair Challenger 3/4 HP pump to a VS.

The service tech recommended Hayward SP3400 VS pump, but on Amazon I have already done some initial research, from recommendations, on the Pentair 011018 VS pump. The service tech stated that he prefers the Hayward b/c it is easier to program. I'm sure both of them will have a serious learning curve.

Let me give some info about my setup. I have Intermatic manual controllers for my pump and the pool cleaner, and I'm not looking to upgrade to a digital control system like the Intelli-Touch. My pool cleaner is controlled by a separate pump/motor, and the cleaner is a Polaris 280. Just based on approximation, there is maybe 20' of head at the very most from my pool pumping station to the inlet(to calculate this, I just simply measured from pumping station to the inlet). I was informed before that I don't need to have a SVRS pump with my system, so I was going to skip on that. Even when we eventually get the pool resurfaced (I am trying to get as much life as possible out of my plaster though), I don't think I want to split my drain, but there again, one company (Adams Pools - Pleasanton) said that it would be required. So, with a resurfacing in the future, would it be better to get a SVRS pump in case it is needed, or is it a waste now and in the future?

If you need any other info for recommendations, please ask. But, if anyone has any experience w/ the aforementioned pumps and would please share, I would greatly appreciate it.

Tx.
 
Tx Mas985. That case study is great. It makes a strong point that there is no significant difference between pools with and without a MD. I would have to look at how one goes about capping off a MD, but I assume that would happen at the time I get the pool resurfaced.

Today, it is not leaking and has not been the last few days. I really don't know why it is intermittently leaking. I have thought about having a different tech come to replace perhaps all the seals, but then I just think that it does not make sense to chase old money with new money; rather, put that money for a service call towards a new pump. What is your reasoning to just replace the seals?

FWIW, when the tech had come previously about this leak, I think what was replaced was the housing gasket.
http://www.inyopools.com/pool_parts_pentair_pac_fab_challenger.aspx

My current pump is a 3/4 HP Pentair Challenger Pump #345213. Maybe this intermittent leak could be handled by buying the Tune Up Kit for the Pentair Challenger Pump at the Inyo Pools website. Appears that it has all the seals to replace. I could buy the kit and if I am not comfortable doing it or due to timing, have a tech put in all the parts. But again, this goes back to chasing old money with new money vs. using this same money towards a new pump.
 
Why avoid Aladdin Go Kits? The one at INYO pools is made by Aladdin. I don't know where else to look for these Go Kits. I will have to Google it.

Been leaking more last 2 days. Concerned b/c I don't want a motor failure and be forced to make a rash decision. Need to get the kit. Guess doing this is the smartest b/c it will buy we some time to explore the other stuff later.
 
The link is not working. Is there another way to access the thread?

- - - Updated - - -

Called Leslie's. They don't sell the kit w/ the shaft seal, but rather it is separate. They said the shaft seal is about $19-20.

- - - Updated - - -

If I had to go the route of Leslie's, would it be better to only purchase the shaft seal, or the shaft seal and their kit? Kit is also about $19-20. I guess I could start w/ replacing just the shaft seal and see if that is good enough.

I saw a YouTube video on replacing the shaft seal on, what looks like a Pentair. It seems straightforward enough that I will attempt it. I'll hope for the best when that time comes.
 
Sorry, try this:

JamesW said:
The PS-3868 uses better materials and has a better design. It's U.S Seal's type G with a type 1 seat. The type G is equivalent to the John Crane type 2100. It uses an good interlocking tang mechanism to prevent counter-rotation of the two ends, which could stress the elastic bellows. It uses Viton elastomers, a carbon primary ring, a ceramic seat and stainless steel hardware.

U.S Seal also has the PS-1902, which is even better. It uses Viton elastomers, a silicon carbide primary ring, a silicon carbide seat, and stainless steel hardware.

The seal that comes with the Aladdin Go-Kit Has a crimped mechanism to prevent counter rotation of seal ends. I have found that these seals can become locked when the seal is stressed such as at installation or even in normal use. The crimped design can create a cam locking mechanism. This prevents the seal from expanding and contracting properly. The cheaper seal also has a rubber piece that is not very secure.

I think that the Aladdin go kit seal uses a Buna elastomer and a phenolic plastic carbon primary ring, both of which do not hold up as well to wear or chemical attack. The seal is made by Inpacom.

Probably the best thing I can recommend is getting both seals and comparing them side-by-side. In my opinion, the difference will be pretty obvious.

http://www.ussealmfg.com/pdfs/USSeal_Successful_Pool_and_Spa_Seal_Installation.pdf

http://www.ussealmfg.com/installation-video.cfm

http://www.ussealmfg.com/pdfs/Pool-Spa-Pump-Products.pdf
Click to expand...
 
Leslie's was closed, so I will have to get the part tomorrow. It would be great if they have PS 3867, but if they have PS 200, I will just use that. Looking at and researching the seals, yes, it looks like the PS 3867 is more bomb proof. But, since I don't have a salt pool or ozone generator, I think it should be fine since the PS 200 is "the industry standard" (U.S. Seal Mfg.)

And, hopefully, they have the seal kit. If not, will go check in the area. When/if I replace the diffuser seal and housing seal, can I use silicone lubricant? I have some WD 40 silicone spray lubricant that I used on the seal/gasket in my filter housing when I cleaned my filters. I had been informed Magic Lube, or the like, could be used on the filter housing gasket, or silicone spray lubricant. I opted for the silicone spray for convenience.
 

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Also, sorry for the naive question, but which side do I put of the motor shaft seal do I lubricate? Looks like the shaft seal is 2 parts that go together. This is not a typical rubber seal, so I figured I better ask.
 
Normally there are instructions included but there are two sides to a seal. One half is white ceramic and the second half is the black carbon. The two pieces seal at the ceramic and carbon interface so the rubber parts face outwards or away from the faces. The ceramic side is installed in the motor mounting plate. The carbon half is closest to the impeller. But do not use any lube or sealant on the seal faces or it will damage the seal. Sometimes lube is used on the rubber parts to make installation easier but you need to be careful not to get it on the seal faces.

Here is a picture of both halves of an installed seal:
Step%2012aR.JPG



There are several videos on youtube that might help too.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rqtYpSoGMvo
 
I ended up buying PS200, by US Seal Mfg, and a diffuser o-ring. Now, time permitting, I just need to get it done. I will keep you all posted. First, though, I will see if I can review YouTube for some videos on Pentair motor shaft seal replacement.

Watching the above video. Looks like installing the half of the shaft seal w/ the porcelain could pose problems? How can that realistically be pushed in if I don't use lubricant? Not to mention, you are not supposed to touch the porcelain. I will wear some medical gloves, but it just seems as though you have to push on the porcelain to get it in. Any other ideas/techniques to get in this half of the shaft seal?
 
Anyone know if this is true: I was told that whether I go with the Hayward SP3400VSP EcoStar VS Variable-Speed or the Pentair 011018 IntelliFlo Variable Speed that a GFI would have to be installed?

Also, I was told that my main drain (MD), which is flush w/ the bottom of the pool, would have to have a new cover installed on it. A domed cover; some sort of anti-entrapment cover or that I would have to install a SVRS model of the above. From what I have read, the SVRS feature is a nightmare with regards to solar. The SVRS gets tripped to easy due to pressure differences with solar. And, the SVRS is also very sensitive to the slightest bit of leaves/debris in the strainer basket. Mas985, you had stated that capping off the MD could be an option, but I am not sure what that entails. Even though the MD is not sucking in any water when my 3/4 HP is running, I wonder if this MD is necessary to keep in the event both suction valves in the topside strainer basket get blocked, or if the water level falls too low (of course that shouldn't happen as I check the pool regularly). FWIW, I have no diverter over the inlet in my skimmer. Perhaps some pool techs are trying to scam me by telling me I need this anti-entrapment drain/device when perhaps I don't b/c my pool is not new construction. I will have to check w/ the City or my home inspector to find out if existing construction is required to have anti-entrapment MDs.

And, I was informed that if I went w/ the Pentair Intelliflo, it would render my Intermatic Mechanical Timer useless. Is that true? A tech was stating that the Hayward Ecostar would still work with it, but the Pentair Intelliflo would have to be operated from the pump.

Looking at the PG&E rebate, it states something about the Pentair Intelliflo needing some controller, whereas the Hayward Ecostar doesn't need some sort of controller. I am not sure what it is talking about. Whatever the case, I assumed that just installing the Pentair Intelliflo would qualify for the rebate. Thoughts?

BTW, Mas985, I read your other thread (sorry I don't have the title) in which you broke down the energy benefits of the Hayward Ecostar vs. the Pentair Intelliflo. It was a very informative post. Despite being the more energy efficient pump, the Hayward Ecostar definitely doesn't sound as popular and installed as much as the Pentair Intelliflo.
 
For some reason I didn't see these posts until today.

You can put a little silicon lube on the housing side to help install the seal. Just be careful not to get it on the ceramic or carbon parts of the seal.

A GFI will probably be required on any pump motor now because of code changes.

A main drain does help with equalization should a skimmer get clogged but that is only an issue on some pools. My skimmers fill up with debris but I have never had an issue with the pump running dry. If that is an issue with the pool, then you might want to keep the MD. However, I find that the MD is pretty useless if the water level gets too low because the skimmer floats do not full shut off in that case and end up leaking air. But new codes do require all MDs to have anti-entrapment covers. However, there is no way to enforce that unless there is an inspection planned although it is a good idea anyway.

The Intelliflo does not require an external timer, it has internal timers, so most of the time it is better just to go straight to power. In fact, I think it has been reported that the drive alarms if power is cut to it. But since both pumps have internal timers, there is really not reason to go through the timer anyway. But both pumps should qualify for the rebate since they both have timers. They may have been talking about one of the older Intelliflo's which required an external controller.

If you want to go with the timer, a better choice in pumps, assuming no high flow requirements, is the Pentair SuperFlo VS or the Hayward MaxFlo VS. These pumps are cheaper and don't have all the features as their big brothers but are more efficient to run.
 
Tx Mark.

I came across the Pentair SuperFlo VS when searching at Amazon, but did not know about the Hayward MaxFlo VS. If I am correct, I thought the Pentair SuperFlo was a medium head pump and I think I need a high head as I am running a Polaris 280 with separate 3/4 HP booster pump and I have solar. My current pool pump is high head (Pentair 3/4 HP Challenger).
 
No you don't need a high head pump when you use a booster pump. The booster creates the high pressure so the main pump does not need to create the high pressure.
 
I've had a lot of issues with my 011018 VS pump since I've gotten it. After running for a week it started tripping the breaker. I had to have them replace it with a specific one recommended by Pentair. Then it kept giving me overcurrent errors and eventually stopped working. They had to replace the drive. Now it won't allow me to select a manual speed while the schedule is running. I'm still waiting for them to come look at that.

As for learning curve, there really is none. If you're computer savvy the menu system is easy to navigate and schedules / speeds are not difficult to program. Just make sure you plumb it with the control panel facing a direction you'll be able to read it without having to hold a mirror to it. :D
 
Tx Mark and Zethacat.

Mark, what exactly constitutes "high flow requirements?" You made a statement that "If want to go with the timer, a better choice in pumps, assuming no high flow requirements, is the Pentair SuperFlo VS or the Hayward MaxFlo VS." Would you expand on what you mean? Your next response you told me that the booster creates the high pressure so the main pump does not, but what about if my solar on the roof is taken into consideration? Basically, I am not sure if my system warrants a high head pump, as that is what I have now w/ the Pentair Challenger 3/4 HP single speed.

Also, fwiw, I contacted Hayward today to briefly discuss their MaxFlo and Ecostar. Long story short, I stated that I have solar and a pool cleaner, and the tech stated that in this case the MaxFlo is not recommended. Mark, to educate me, how do you conclude that a medium head pump such as the MaxFlo would be sufficient for my pool/setup?

Zethacat, yes, I have concerns regarding your experiences w/ the Pentair. I have read about your experience both w/ the Intelliflo and Ecostar with other TFPers. Not sure if it is 6 of one, half dozen of the other. Did you ever consider the Hayward Ecostar? How did you decide on the Intelliflo?

I have read many of your posts Mark in which you have discussed 2 speed pumps, variable speed pumps, Pentair, Hayward, etc. I have even seen that your setup is a 1/2 HP 2 speed pump and you have solar and a pool cleaner. For my application (as shown by the details in my signature lines), could a Pentair 1.5 HP SuperFlo or Hayward MaxFlo work? My spa is separate above ground, and I only have roof solar and a Polaris pool cleaner; no water features. I'm not sure if PG&E would honor the rebate w/ these pumps though. For me, it is about finding the right pump that will be future ready, but also energy efficient and practical for my setup. I am leaning towards the stronger variable speed pumps vs. the Superflow or MaxFlo b/c them seem better suited.
 
By high flow, I mean features such as a spa or large waterfall. If the pump is used to just circulate and filter the water, then any pump will do. Also, the MaxFlo should be fine for solar. A two story install is usually less that 30' in height so that is the head required to lift the water and nearly any pump can do that (except maybe an Intex AG pump). I use a 1/2 HP two speed for my two story solar and it works fine. The MaxFlo on full speed has a head curve that is higher (i.e more powerful) than my pump so it should work fine for solar. It is the head curve that matters, nothing else. Also, the techs at Hayward can be hit or miss so you can't always trust their comments.

The Intelliflo has it's own internal on/off timer while the SuperFlo and MaxFlo do not so they actually require an external timer. Add to that the MaxFlo is one of the most efficient VS pumps on the market. In your situation, if you go with a VS pump, either a SuperFlo or MaxFlo is a good choice. I would just go by the best price.
 

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