Replacing pool pump - any recommendations?

Jump to latest Follow Reply
Tx Mark. Good info. I must say though, judging from all of the negative reviews I have read about the Maxflo and the SuperFlo, I am concerned about running those with solar. The reviews have stated disappointment with the pumps ability to effectively push the water for solar. It sounds like you're giving me the green light though they are going to be okay, right?

I have not seen those head curve charts nor do I even know a tad of what you do. You seem extremely well-versed in this. As I stated before, my only concern is just wanting to go with something that is going to be future ready for whatever may come up. I highly doubt we would ever put in an inground spa or a waterfall sense that would eat into the little bit of area we have left for sitting/lounging; not to mention an aboveground spa is just enough of an additional headache. So the only thing I could see in the distant future is maybe upgrading solar. Also, I would not want a pump such as a MaxFlo or SuperFlo if it becomes obsolete; all the hype seems to be on the Intelliflo and EcoStar.
 
What reviews are you referring to? Several on this forum have one and have not had any issues with them. Often times, it isn't the pump that causes the problems but other parts of the plumbing. When the pump size is reduced, some of these "other" issues can surface. But if you really want an efficient system, those should be addressed anyway.
 
Tx Mark. I was referring to the few reviews read online at Amazon and Pool Supply World, if I recall correctly. Edit: But, I realize I had been reading reviews on a different Hayward, not the Max-Flo VS. The Amazon reviews for the Max-Flo VS are all very strong. Shows that is is a great pump (http://www.amazon.com/Hayward-SP230.../ref=cm_cr_pr_product_top/186-0902419-7847342). Albeit it shows discontinued, the newer version Max-Flo SP2302VS can be found online.

I was searching TFP for more info about VS pumps and efficiency, and came across this post from you "ecause the SuperFlo has a lower head curve than even the SuperPump, I might steer people away from that pump if they had solar but it depends on the setup." It's not that I want to get more pump such as the Intelliflo if it is not needed, but when I read prior threads and see these statements I can't help but wonder if the Max-Flo could actually be suitable for me. Also I read some of the link in ur signature "Hydraulics 101." There u made this statement:
Suction side and pressure side cleaners often require high head pumps but depending on the cleaner, can sometimes run on smaller pumps.

I know you are a pool pump expert, but I am just trying to understand this as a novice. As such, u still think the MaxFlo could work for me?
 
I would need to see the full context of the post to comment on why I said that but I suspect it was when the pump first came out and I didn't have a chance to fully evaluate the capabilities.

The SuperFlo VS and MaxFlo VS are not really low head pumps. You have a booster so the cleaner is not an issue. The comment in the Hydraulics sticky is for non-booster cleaners and only certain cleaners with certain pumps. It is meant as just a reminder that you need to look into the requirements of the cleaner. But again, booster cleaners are not part of that.
 
While I trust that you really thoroughly know all things pool related Mark, I have read most reviews at Amazon on the Hayward Max-Flo VS, Ecostar SP3400VSP, and the Pentair Intelliflo 011018 VS, and I have contacted Hayward again to discuss my pool setup (19k gal. IGP, Polaris cleaner, solar, single story home), and I have been told that the Max-Flo would not be appropriate for my application. While the reviews for the Max-Flo are strong, I just can't help but think that if 2 different Hayward tech reps have stated that it is not appropriate, I should probably listen to them to void any warranty or technical problems. They have informed me that the med. head Max-Flo pump is not designed to move water to solar equipment vs. for simple designed pools without pool features/spa/solar. It would suck to get the Max-Flo and realize later in the summer that it is not operating properly with the solar. As such, they have recommended the Ecostar SP3400VSP. While it is more $, if it is a safer bet, it would be appropriate and $ well spent.

The thing now would be deciding b/w the Ecostar SP3400VSP and the Pentair Intelliflo VS 011018. The dilemma I have had originally. I have read threads here about the comparisons, and have closely looked at the analysis you have provided on the two Mark. It appears and sounds as though the Ecostar is slighlty more efficient. Additionally, I can pickup the Ecostar for slightly less than the Intelliflo. But, while the upfront cost may be better, it could end up costing me more in the long run. The negative reviews at Amazon discuss owner's dissatisfaction with it related to bearings, premature pump failure prior to warranty expiration, or drive problems. At least on Amazon, there are less negative reviews on the Pentair Intelliflo, and some of them are related to screen failure or the pump failing to shut off.

Two areas that could help with my decision are warranty and ease of programming. The Ecostar may be easier to program, but this is an assumption based on reading that the Intelliflo was difficult to program. Ease of use is a big selling point to me. Turning to warranties, I know that if the Pentair is installed by a service professional, the warranty is 3 years. When I spoke with Hayward, the tech stated that the warranty is 2 years if installed by a service tech. But, I can't find anything online about this 2 year Ecostar warranty; in fact, I have read both that it is 1 year, or 3 years. Also, if possible to determine, I would like to know which company honors their warranty better - Hayward or Pentair?

If anyone could chime in on these two pumps and their experiences/satisfaction/dissatisfaction with them and what was the selling point for you, I would greatly appreciate it.
 
Tx Zethacat. What exactly do you mean is happening w/ the control panel? That is what I have read about. Crazy this is happening and this is your second panel.
 
Again, the MaxFlo has a higher head curve than my pump and it works fine with solar so it shouldn't be an issue. When I tell some techs that I am using a 1/2 HP pump for my solar they can't believe that it works but it does. They simply have not tried it.

BTW, your old pump would produce about 57 GPM with a typical solar setup and the MaxFlo would produce about 53 GPM on exactly the same plumbing so only 4 GPM difference which is not a lot.

Anyway, if you still don't believe me that the MaxFlo would work, Pentair has a new SuperFlo VS (034201) which has an even higher head curve. That pump is the equivalent of a 1.5 full rated HP pump. Well over sized for your pool. It would produce about 63 GPM on the same plumbing as above so it is a bigger pump than your current pump but still a VS. The first gen SuperFlo (034200) would produce about the same flow rate as your current pump.
 
My first control panel (which Pentair keeps referring to as "the drive") started tripping the breaker after the first week of running and then kept giving an "overcurrent" error. Replacing the drive solved that issue but now it has a problem where it intermittently does not allow me to select a manual speed during a scheduled speed. I press the manual speed button and the light just blinks without switching to the speed I selected. The first time they came to look at it, they did a factory default reset on it and it seemed to fix the issue. However, it started acting up again a few days later and a factory default reset didn't fix it. It seems to only happen intermittently. I haven't been able to narrow down an exact time or reason. Of course, with my luck, the next time they send someone out it will be working just dandy.
 
Wow Mark! You cease to amaze me with your knowledge.

When you say the MaxFlo would produce 53 GPM on the same setup as my pump, what RPM is that at? Curious if that would be running the MaxFlo at max or what. Also, I guess another thought was that while I highly doubt my wife and I would ever desire to expand the pool, put in an IG spa attached to the pool, water features like waterfalls/fountains, we may want to either upgrade the solar panels with they fail out one day or possibly consider a SWG (which I know nothing about except that it could help maintain a certain level of chlorine in the pool). With either of these future possibilities, is the MaxFlo capable of handling this things in the future.

Also Mark, if I did go with the MaxFlo, and let's speculate worst case scenario that there was a warranty issue, would Hayward still honor that or could they try to pull some nonsense that it is not adequate for my system and hence would not cover it? I know I am asking you about what Hayward could say, but I figured I would ask you.

I did not know there was a new Superflo. I'll have to add that to my list of pumps to research. Tx again for all your help.

Here is a radical idea I just had. I was looking at INYOpools.com. When I was originally going to replace the shaft seal on my current pump, I had looked at INYOpools.com for parts. At the site, I noticed that they sold replacement pump motors. I looked at both replacement variable speed or dual speed motors for my pump. Here's the link for the page I was looking at:
http://www.inyopools.com/motors_pentair_challenger_full.aspx

For my current pump, they sell a VS motor: B661 Challenger Energy Efficient CFII-NI-3/4F 3/4 115/208-230 11.2/6.0-5.6 1.67 Square 56Y $192.99, and also 2 dual speed models (one w/ a digital timer and one without): B981 Challenger CFII-NI-3/4F No Timer 3/4 115 14.6/4.7 1.67 Square 56Y $262.99 or B981T Challenger CFII-NI-3/4F Digital Timer 3/4 115 14.6/4.7 1.67 Square 56Y $321.99. Could it even be worth it to just switch out the motor, and would this work? Not sure if this is practical or just a pinching pennies idea.

Sounds like my luck Zethacat. The problem always resolves when the service tech comes out. That happened before when I tried to tell one of them that my current pump was leaking.
 

Enjoying this content?

Support TFP with a donation.

Give Support
bbrock said:
WWhen you say the MaxFlo would produce 53 GPM on the same setup as my pump, what RPM is that at?
Click to expand...
3000 RPM


Also, I guess another thought was that while I highly doubt my wife and I would ever desire to expand the pool, put in an IG spa attached to the pool, water features like waterfalls/fountains, we may want to either upgrade the solar panels with they fail out one day or possibly consider a SWG (which I know nothing about except that it could help maintain a certain level of chlorine in the pool). With either of these future possibilities, is the MaxFlo capable of handling this things in the future.
Click to expand...
SWG would be fine. However, an IG spa would be a problem with more than about 4 jets.


Also Mark, if I did go with the MaxFlo, and let's speculate worst case scenario that there was a warranty issue, would Hayward still honor that or could they try to pull some nonsense that it is not adequate for my system and hence would not cover it? I know I am asking you about what Hayward could say, but I figured I would ask you.
Click to expand...
I doubt they would deny coverage although technically they can do what ever they want.


Here is a radical idea I just had. I was looking at INYOpools.com. When I was originally going to replace the shaft seal on my current pump, I had looked at INYOpools.com for parts. At the site, I noticed that they sold replacement pump motors. I looked at a both replacement variable speed or dual speed motors for my pump. Here's the link for teh page I was looking at:
http://www.inyopools.com/motors_pentair_challenger_full.aspx

For my current pump, they sell a VS motor: B661 Challenger Energy Efficient CFII-NI-3/4F 3/4 115/208-230 11.2/6.0-5.6 1.67 Square 56Y $192.99, and also 2 dual speed models (one w/ a digital timer and one without): B981 Challenger CFII-NI-3/4F No Timer 3/4 115 14.6/4.7 1.67 Square 56Y $262.99 or B981T Challenger CFII-NI-3/4F Digital Timer 3/4 115 14.6/4.7 1.67 Square 56Y $321.99. Could it even be worth it to just switch out the motor, and would this work? Not sure if this is practical or just a pinching pennies idea.
Click to expand...
A B2981/B2981T is a bit more efficient 2 speed motor so I would go that route if you would rather with a 2 speed. It is a tough trade off. The VS will save you more over the life of the pump but would have a higher cost should the drive fail prematurely which does not happen too often. Also, replacing just the motor is far easier than replacing an entire pump. Just some things to thing about.

Also, if you are in the $0.30 price tier for PG&E, the MaxFlo would cost about $12/mo in energy while a two speed about $30/mo. So a definite savings.
 
Tx again Mark.

Looks like based on ur analysis getting the MaxFlo would pay for itself after 2 yrs when compared against a dual speed based on the monthly energy costs you provided and current pricing at PoolSupplyWorld for a MaxFlo $730 and a dual speed motor B2981T $339. The leap of faith would be hoping that the Maxflo drive doesn't fail in the first few years. And if it matters, I pay approx $0.32/kWh.

Not to mention, I'm not sure how the mechanical dial timer working with a dual speed motor would function with the solar and speed requirement changes. Can it go from low to high to low or vice versa? Or how many times in one 24 h period can I switch back and forth among speeds in a dual speed motor?

I forgot to ask about Automation Equipment. Going the route of a dual speed motor replacement or MaxFlo, would those be compatible with automation equipment? Or, would that warrant the likes of an Ecostar? I was reading a little in this thread (http://www.troublefreepool.com/threads/68850-Variable-Speed-Pump-Hayward-2300-2600-3400) and Jblizzle stated that the MaxFlo doesn't work with auto equip. Need to finish reading thread.
 
Solar is problematic without a more advanced controller. But how are you controlling solar now?

The next gen MaxFlo VS may now have external control with an advanced controller but I haven't seen the details yet. They still have the old manual on the web site. The next gen SuperFlo VS apparently has external control now (via relays) and usually Hayward and Pentair tend to mirror capabilities.

But if you want full controller over the VS with a more advanced controller, you will probably need to go with the EcoStar or Intelliflo.
 
My solar is automatic if the toggle switch is to auto. There is a solar control box that has an on, off, and auto option. I leave it on auto during the swim season, and it is off right now.

My question about automation equipment was for speculation if the Hayward max flow would be future compatible if we wanted to put in an advanced automation controller. Sorry Mark, could you clarify what you mean by external control? I assume by advanced controller u r talking about one of the new advanced auto controllers like the Pentair Intellitouch, for example. Not sure what the future with our pool would have in store, but I just wanted to see if this would be an option with the MaxFlo. All in all though, the current set up with the mechanical dial timer seems good enough. The current MaxFlo SP2302VS per Hayward has a built-in timer/clock and renders a mechanical dial time useless. But, the prior MaxFlo SP2300VS still needs a dial timer to switch it on/off.

Also, could u comment on my questions from the prior thread when I asked about how dual speed motors can be programmed or how many times it can change between speeds in one day? Not sure if it can start on low speed, but I would probably need it to go from low to high (during solar & Polaris cleaning) back to low.
 
What is the brand/model of your solar box? Some can control two speed pumps, others cannot.

The timer that comes with a two speed motor only controls the motor and I doubt the solar controller will control that. Ideally, you want a single controller to control solar and the pump together so it can change speed depending on if solar is on or not.
 
Whether the final decision is a Hayward ecostar, the MaxFlo, or a Pentair super flow or Intelliflo, that would be awesome to have the solar communicate with the pump. I did not even know that was possible. I have a Pentair Compool LX220 Solar Control System.
15334042999_0f2f35327c.jpg


Mark, you talked about a single controller to control both the pump and solar. What are some examples of that? Whatever pump I upgrade to, whether it is a motor replacement or a pump, I wonder if it could be worth it to get one of these controllers contingent on cost. Yes, I'd be curious if you know if my current controller can communicate with a pump.

Forgot to mention, something else to speculate on for future possibility would be a pool heater rather than solar. Whether I went with a motor replacement or a pump like the MaxFlo or SuperFlo or a full size Ecostar, would those accommodate a pool heater?

Also, I think I had forgotten until just now when I looked, that my solar controller is by Pentair. Being that it is, I have a Pentair solar controller, booster pump, and pool pump, but I have a Hayward filter, would it be better to stick with Pentair since most of my equip is by them? Does that matter?
 
Most of these:
http://www.hayward-pool.com/shop/en/pools/res-in-ground/res-automation

and these:
http://www.pentairpool.com/sections/automation-5.htm

Any of the pumps will work with a pool heater. You can set the speed to what ever you need. However, the cost savings is diminished the higher the speed. But again, you have additional functions with a controller. It can increase speed when the heater turns on.

It would be best to get the pump and controller from the same manufacture but other than that it doesn't matter.
 
Perhaps one day I would switch to an advanced automatic control, but for now, the mechanical dial timer seems good enough. If a system doesn't have the ability for the pump to communicate with the solar, what do people do about choosing and running speeds? I assume they just plan accordingly and have it programmed to speed up during solar hours. And, if the solar can't communicate with it, it will just run at that higher speed until the next program option. Even if it runs at a higher speed, I'm thinking it would still be more efficient than my current system by running at a lower kWh.

Looking at the pricing of those controllers, I just don't see how that would be worth it. My ROI would b extended quite long.
 
Basically, you would set up the pump to run during daylight hours. You would set the RPM so that the VRV remains closed and panels can self prime.
 
Sorry Mark, can you break down your last post in simpler terms. I do not know what the VRV is as I had to look it up – vacuum release valve. I'm assuming you are talking about the solar actuator or something? And my interpretation of your last couple posts is that if I do not have a solar control that connects with my pump, then I just set an appropriate RPM during the summer/solar season that would activate the solar. And, on those days that it is overcast/not warm enough to run the solar, it will still run at that RPM just because that is the programmed time. But even if this new motor or variable speed pump runs at a higher RPM even if solar is not on, it will still be more efficient than my single speed.
 

Enjoying this content?

Support TFP with a donation.

Give Support
You must log in or register to reply here.
Thread Status
Hello , This thread has been inactive for over 60 days. New postings here are unlikely to be seen or responded to by other members. For better visibility, consider Starting A New Thread.
Top Bottom
Back
Jump to latest Follow Reply