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Thread: What might this be?

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    What might this be?

    Hey all. Former professional now doing some independent maintenance for some family friends. However, my experience is mostly with gunite/hydrazzo/pebbletech/ANYTHING other than vinyl liners and fiberglass pools, for the most part.
    Anyway, these friends have a liner pool, and they have developed some sort of stain, I believe. The homeowner is under the impression it is 'mold' but...I doubt it. Anyone have any idea what this could be? When I nylon-brushed it, it just laughed at me. It is a brown-grey color. At first I thought metals, but as you can see the stairs (as well as the returns/UWF) are bright white, so that seems unlikely. What options does this leave? Organic stain, perhaps?
    Also, I do not have a chemical reading yet as they only have test strips (which look like a bit of water got in the tube anyway). I am ordering a Taylor K-2005 and I will post the results here in a week or so once it arrives in the mail. But I am nearly positive that the chemicals are severely low, as I noticed they haven't bought any chemicals since the last time I came over and shocked their pool two months ago, and that shock was the only chemical they had at that point anyway. So I'm sure the water is extremely aggressive and will need tons of TLC.
    But anyway, here are the pics. The 2nd is a zoomed-in shot of the 1st, and the 4th zoomed-in of the third. Thanks for all the help to come!

    IMG_2064.jpg
    IMG_9869.jpg
    Next two in comment.
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    Re: What might this be?

    Its rare for stains like that on a Vinyl pool, they are all that I deal with, but I would check all chemicals first and foremost.

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    Re: What might this be?

    Apparently 4th photo is over the limit but it was just a zoomed-in pic of that one by the steps.

    - - - Updated - - -

    @pooladdict: I will be checking chemicals as soon as I'm able. Do you have any suppositions in the meantime so that I could be researching?

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    Re: What might this be?

    Welcome to the forum ChaseGiants

    Once you get a CYA level and get the FC up maybe the stain will disappear or be easier to scrub.
    '70s IG Vinyl 32K gal, Lazy L, Hayward SuperPump 1.5hp 120V, S240 Sand Filter W/DE
    Solar Blanket, Well Water, Borax Added, TF-100 tester. ?° too cold
    1979, 275gal Conway Emerald Spa P-100-2, ES-2 Spa Pack, bromine floater, indoor
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    Re: What might this be?

    I'm thinking that it might be a bacteria. This seems to happen when the chlorine is low for a while. I have seen it happen in pools that have an ionizer because the water can stay clear with an ionizer and very low to almost no chlorine. However, certain bacteria can grow and form colonies on the liner. They can become embedded in the liner and can be very difficult to remove.

    Sometimes various organisms (mold, bacteria, fungus etc.) can grow under the liner and produce products that migrate through the liner to produce stains

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    Re: What might this be?

    +1 what JamesW said. Pretty rare that we see that on the forum (I have never seen it personally) but other pics posted look very similar.

    If you intend to stay with us here, please don't get the K-2005 kit. Both the K-2006 and TF-100 kits have a chlorine test called FAS/DPD that is essential for what we teach. The K-2005 does not have this test.
    Dave S.
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    Swampwoman's Avatar
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    Re: What might this be?

    Perhaps this is a silly question, but have you held vitamin c against it, and chlorine against it. To try to sleuth out whether its metallic or organic? Are they on a well?

    I believe maganese can produce a stain that color, as can silver.

    If it's an underliner growth, you could try ferrous sulphide treatment around the soil perimeter and water it in. It changes the ph of the soil and can over time kill off molds or fungus growing under the liner. But dont get any in the pool

    Ps How old is the liner?
    In ground extended Grecian, 22,000 gal, Hayward 220t sand filter, vinyl liner, dolphin m4 supreme.
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    Re: What might this be?

    I didn't catch that ... you want to get the K-2006 or better yet the TF100 for the reasons Duraleigh stated.

    Link to K-2006: http://www.amazon.com/TECHNOLOGIES-C...keywords=K2006
    Link to TF100: http://tftestkits.net/TFTestkits-TF-100-p4.html
    I recommend getting the "Speedstir" and here's video why: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4_EJ...9Y_YYNAeLtUr1g
    Speedstir: http://tftestkits.net/SpeedStir-Magn...irrer-p56.html

    If you try chlorine on that stain be careful how you apply it and and how much as you are putting it on vinyl that can be damaged by too much chlorine. If you have a noticeably faded spot from the chlorine it would likely be as bothersome as what you have now. Might even stick out more if it fades the blue pattern or goes white.
    '70s IG Vinyl 32K gal, Lazy L, Hayward SuperPump 1.5hp 120V, S240 Sand Filter W/DE
    Solar Blanket, Well Water, Borax Added, TF-100 tester. ?° too cold
    1979, 275gal Conway Emerald Spa P-100-2, ES-2 Spa Pack, bromine floater, indoor
    TF-100, Best test kit - TFTestkits.net
    Please help keep the lights on, become a TFP Supporter!

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    Swampwoman's Avatar
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    Re: What might this be?

    ^yes, by putting chlorine on it I mean a tab in a thick sock and supervise...do not just leave it sit unattended.
    In ground extended Grecian, 22,000 gal, Hayward 220t sand filter, vinyl liner, dolphin m4 supreme.
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    GET A TEST KIT Chlorine/CYA Chart How to SLAM About Metals & Stains

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    Re: What might this be?

    Wow. Just got back from another visit and the water chemistry is worse than I anticipated. Unless anyone disagrees, I think it best to work on balancing the chemicals before I address the stains (especially as getting a residual chlorine reading MAY take care of it). I'm coming here because with things this badly out of whack, I am very hesitant to just start balancing as normal. Here's today's test (by the way it is about 50 degrees here in Memphis):

    FC: 0
    TC: 0
    (CC: 0)
    pH: 7.0 (three base demand drops brought it up to a 7.4)
    TA: 20
    CH: 30
    CYA: 55ish
    Saturation Index: off the chart of the Taylor wheel but somewhere below a -2.0 (which makes this the only time I have EVER seen one beyond 0.1 out of the ideal range in six years of doing pools!)

    The pool was rife with algae (surprise surprise), so all I did today was vac, brush, backwash, and added 1 qt of Algaecide 60 and 1 lb of cal-hypo 73%. What do y'all think I should adjust next when I return tomorrow? TA?

    Other thoughts?

    Oh and btw the pool is about 16,000 gallons.



    P.S. Regarding the K-2006: this family had already purchased the K-2005 for me to use by the time I saw everyone's recommendations for the 2006. However, it is hard for me to foresee needing the extra bit of accuracy the 2006 provides on CC as 1) the 2005 has always worked fine in my experience (especially with weekly testing rather than the daily TFP recommends...simply not an option as I am not the homeowner) and 2) it is unlikely this pool will need the FAS-DPD test as it hardly ever has any swimmers in it which would lead to CC. When I researched which one to buy (before joining these forums) it simply didn't seem like that significant of a difference to spring for the 2006.
    I'm sure all of you will disagree and with good reason, but I expect not having the FAS-DPD test will work out just fine in my particular situation.


    Thanks!!

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    Mod Squad jblizzle's Avatar
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    Re: What might this be?

    Welcome to TFP!!!

    You absolutely need to add the FAS-DPD chlorine test (which will give you the equivalent to the K2006) to have any real hope of maintaining your chemistry accurately. The FAS-DPD gives you the FC and the CC in increments of 0.5ppm instead of guessing at some color and will read up to 50ppm and not max out at 5ppm.
    See: FAS-DPD Chlorine Test

    With potential algae in the water and no chlorine, you need to follow the ShockLevelAndMAINTAIN Process. And according to the FC/CYA Chart, with a CYA of 55ppm, you need to maintain the FC level at 22ppm to do that ... How are you going to read a FC level that high when the DPD test you have in the K-2005 bleaches out to clear at high FC levels?

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    Re: What might this be?

    If it's "rife" with algae you don't need to balance anything as much as you need to SLAM the pool to get rid of the algae. Bring up the pH to 7.2 or so and start adding bleach. With a CYA level of 55 you need to add and try to hold the FC at 22ppm or so to kill of the algae. http://www.troublefreepool.com/conte...art-slam-shock Not sure how you think you are going to measure 22 ppm FC

    It would also be handy if you added the pools info to your signature as outlined here - - > http://www.troublefreepool.com/conte...etting-started
    '70s IG Vinyl 32K gal, Lazy L, Hayward SuperPump 1.5hp 120V, S240 Sand Filter W/DE
    Solar Blanket, Well Water, Borax Added, TF-100 tester. ?° too cold
    1979, 275gal Conway Emerald Spa P-100-2, ES-2 Spa Pack, bromine floater, indoor
    TF-100, Best test kit - TFTestkits.net
    Please help keep the lights on, become a TFP Supporter!

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    Re: What might this be?

    Quote Originally Posted by ChaseGiants View Post
    I'm sure all of you will disagree and with good reason, but I expect not having the FAS-DPD test will work out just fine in my particular situation.
    Thanks!!
    Well, before anyone goes much further you will have to decide if you are going to follow the recommendations taught here or "standard" pool store care.

    If you are going to follow our recommendations with a CYA of 55ish you will need to get to a FC of 24 to SLAM the pool, well above testing limits/accuracy of the K-2005. That is why you need the K-2006.

    Your decision, follow TFP or keep pouring in algecide and hoping things will get better.
    TFP Moderator 39 X 18 23,000(ish) freeform gunite; built 2007ish; Pentair Triton II TR100 600lb Sand filter; 2 HP Pentair pump with 2.2 HP AO Smith single speed motor; 2 skimmers, 1 main drain, 4 returns w/waterfall, Stenner 45MHP2 3GPD running@ 60% - 15 gal Tank; heated by the sun CYA 200+ when I started - 50 now. Dolphin Supreme M5 Pool Cleaner. Hot Springs SX Spa, 285 gallon

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    pwrstrk's Avatar
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    What might this be?

    You can add the FAS/DPD test to the K2005 for 26 bucks. http://tftestkits.net/Individual-Tests-c6/. 😎
    Jeff
    24'x54" AG Morada RTR (by wilbar) 13'500 gal. Hayward Powerflo Matrix 1hp 2 speed. Hayward Perflex EC65 DE filter.

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    Mod Squad Bama Rambler's Avatar
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    Re: What might this be?

    That actually looks like tannin stains from leaves etc. sitting on the bottom. They'll lighten over time once you get and keep the chems in balance. I'd hold the FC on the high side of normal once you get done with the SLAM. The good news is that it'll be easy to do in the cold weather.
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