Become a TFP Supporter Pool Math Forum Rules Pool School
Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast
Results 1 to 20 of 23

Thread: Polyquat Dosage

  1. Back To Top    #1

    Join Date
    Dec 2009
    Location
    San Antonio, Texas
    Posts
    78

    Polyquat Dosage

    I've just shocked the pool again for mustard algae and have decided to try a continuing polyquat treatment.

    What's the recommended continuing dosage for polyquat per 10,000 gallons? Does this vary by brand or just by the rated concentration?

    Is there a brand that works better than others?

    The local Leslie's doesn't appear to carry it, but they didn't recognize the term "polyquat." Can I successfully search a Leslie's for "benzalkonium chloride" and get a polyquat?
    Jaywalker

    In-ground, 11,000 gallon, plaster, in-line trichlor pucks or BBB bottled chlorine, 1.5 HP pump @ ~100 gallons/minute, cartridge filter

  2. Back To Top    #2

    TFP Guide

    In the Industry

    Join Date
    May 2007
    Location
    New Brunswick Canada
    Posts
    819

    Re: Polyquat Dosage

    [oxyethylene (dimethylimino) ethylene (dimethyliminio) ethylene dichloride] Man that is a mouthful....you should be able to find it at any store really. Even walmart sells it under the HTH brand I believe. The bottle will tell you the proper dosing required.

  3. Back To Top    #3

    In the Industry

    duraleigh's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    Location
    Sebring, Florida
    Posts
    30,083

    Re: Polyquat Dosage

    Chlorine and the SLAM process kills algae......it's the best method you can use.

    The expense and results of using polyquat may be disappointing to you and certainly not necessary.
    Dave S.
    42k vinyl and concrete pool, 1.5hp pump, 140gpm filter
    TFTestkits , PoolMath , Pool School

  4. Back To Top    #4

    Join Date
    Dec 2009
    Location
    San Antonio, Texas
    Posts
    78

    Re: Polyquat Dosage

    Quote Originally Posted by pooladdict View Post
    [oxyethylene (dimethylimino) ethylene (dimethyliminio) ethylene dichloride] Man that is a mouthful....you should be able to find it at any store really. Even walmart sells it under the HTH brand I believe. The bottle will tell you the proper dosing required.
    Thanks, I'll try that formulation. Maybe even Leslie's has that, since I asked them to search for "n-alkyl-dimethyl benzyl ammonium chloride," per Wiki. I'm too far separated in time from chem to know whether or not those are the same things.

    Thank you, but this is the third time this year, and fifth in two years, I've had to shock to mustard; at $50 each time for 10% Clorox, it hasn't been cheap. I'm growing weary of it and am minded to try something else.
    Jaywalker

    In-ground, 11,000 gallon, plaster, in-line trichlor pucks or BBB bottled chlorine, 1.5 HP pump @ ~100 gallons/minute, cartridge filter

  5. Back To Top    #5

    TFP Guide

    In the Industry

    Join Date
    May 2007
    Location
    New Brunswick Canada
    Posts
    819

    Re: Polyquat Dosage

    Jay, do yourself a favour, get a good test kit, it will save you fortunes and you will know exactly where your readings are. TFP has a test kit that is the best price you can find. I suspect your pucks are driving up your CYA, and you are not able to maintain a high enough free chlorine reading.

  6. Back To Top    #6

    Join Date
    Dec 2009
    Location
    San Antonio, Texas
    Posts
    78

    Re: Polyquat Dosage

    Thank you, I have an FAS kit and have been using it for years. My shock level reached 39.5 ppm last evening, and it's been approximately that level since Thursday, four-and-a-half days ago. CYA was 40 before the shock, since I drained 60% of the pool two weeks ago to eliminate excess CYA.

    You are correct that CYA was a problem five weeks ago, my last shock. I discovered that Lowes/Home Depot pucks are cheap, contain more non-chlorine content, and dissolve in the feeder too quickly. That required me to drain twice this year to alleviate CYA.
    Jaywalker

    In-ground, 11,000 gallon, plaster, in-line trichlor pucks or BBB bottled chlorine, 1.5 HP pump @ ~100 gallons/minute, cartridge filter

  7. Back To Top    #7

    TFP Guide

    In the Industry

    Join Date
    May 2007
    Location
    New Brunswick Canada
    Posts
    819

    Re: Polyquat Dosage

    I would suspect your problems will go away now that your cya is in proper range. Its amazing how much trouble high cya can cause.

  8. Back To Top    #8

    Join Date
    Jun 2013
    Location
    East TN
    Posts
    309

    Re: Polyquat Dosage

    Poly [oxyethylene (dimethyliminio) ethylene (dimethyliminio) ethylene dichloride] is what is called polyquat algaecide.
    Alkyl () Dimethyl Benzyl Ammonium Chloride is what is called quat algecide.
    Some algaecide are copper based.

    The PolyQuat algeacides are what are recommended here but it is only used as a preventative and you really dont need it if you keep your FC level where it is supposed to be. It doesnt do any good while your slamming your pool. The chlorine does the work there.

    From what I understand there is only one manufacturer of polyquat. It is then distributed to whomever and then they bottle it at different strengths. So one is just as good as the other but the 60% is usually the best deal.

    Leslies Algae Control is polyquat
    http://www.lesliespool.com/leslies-a...ae-control.htm
    18,000 Gallon Aboveground. Sand Filter with 2HP 2 speed Pump.

  9. Back To Top    #9

    Join Date
    Dec 2009
    Location
    San Antonio, Texas
    Posts
    78

    Re: Polyquat Dosage

    Quote Originally Posted by easttn View Post
    Poly [oxyethylene (dimethyliminio) ethylene (dimethyliminio) ethylene dichloride] is what is called polyquat algaecide.
    Alkyl () Dimethyl Benzyl Ammonium Chloride is what is called quat algecide.
    Some algaecide are copper based.

    The PolyQuat algeacides are what are recommended here but it is only used as a preventative and you really dont need it if you keep your FC level where it is supposed to be. It doesnt do any good while your slamming your pool. The chlorine does the work there.

    From what I understand there is only one manufacturer of polyquat. It is then distributed to whomever and then they bottle it at different strengths. So one is just as good as the other but the 60% is usually the best deal.

    Leslies Algae Control is polyquat
    http://www.lesliespool.com/leslies-a...ae-control.htm
    Thanks, easttn - that's the info I need.
    Jaywalker

    In-ground, 11,000 gallon, plaster, in-line trichlor pucks or BBB bottled chlorine, 1.5 HP pump @ ~100 gallons/minute, cartridge filter

  10. Back To Top    #10

    Join Date
    Mar 2007
    Location
    San Rafael, CA USA
    Posts
    12,082

    Re: Polyquat Dosage

    Polyquat is not very effective against yellow/mustard algae. It is more of an inhibitor against green algae and that's easy enough to keep away using chlorine alone.
    16,000 gallon outdoor in-ground 16'x32' plaster pool; Pentair Intelliflo VF pump; Pentair IntelliTouch i9+3s control system; Jandy CL-340 square foot cartridge filter
    12 Fafco solar panels; Purex Triton PowerMax 250 natural gas heater (200,000 BTU/hr output); automatic electric pool safety cover; 4-wheel pressure-side "The Pool Cleaner"

  11. Back To Top    #11

    Join Date
    Dec 2009
    Location
    San Antonio, Texas
    Posts
    78

    Re: Polyquat Dosage

    Well, that's disappointing. Mustard is my problem.
    Jaywalker

    In-ground, 11,000 gallon, plaster, in-line trichlor pucks or BBB bottled chlorine, 1.5 HP pump @ ~100 gallons/minute, cartridge filter

  12. Back To Top    #12

    Join Date
    Mar 2007
    Location
    San Rafael, CA USA
    Posts
    12,082

    Re: Polyquat Dosage

    You had this yellow/mustard algae before in December, 2012 so did you have a period of time when it was eradicated and it has now come back (i.e. did you have the algae last year)? It sounds like you cleaned the equipment before, but do you have pool lights and got behind the lights into the niche or removed any removable ladders to clean them?

    If you are unable to eradicate the yellow/mustard algae or it gets reintroduced frequently then if you don't want to maintain a higher 15% FC/CYA ratio then you could use a phosphate remover as that works for all algae types, but it can be expensive especially if your fill water has phosphates.
    16,000 gallon outdoor in-ground 16'x32' plaster pool; Pentair Intelliflo VF pump; Pentair IntelliTouch i9+3s control system; Jandy CL-340 square foot cartridge filter
    12 Fafco solar panels; Purex Triton PowerMax 250 natural gas heater (200,000 BTU/hr output); automatic electric pool safety cover; 4-wheel pressure-side "The Pool Cleaner"

  13. Back To Top    #13

    Join Date
    Dec 2009
    Location
    San Antonio, Texas
    Posts
    78

    Re: Polyquat Dosage

    I'd have to check my notes for 2013, but I suspect I shocked for mustard a couple of times that year and three times so far this year. (To be fair, the one six weeks ago I shocked for regular, not mustard, in order to see if I'd been misreading the signs and had been shocking for pollen, for instance; I had not been mistake - it was mustard.) Each time the removable equipment - hoses, heads, floats, etc. - got well treated. I have no ladders, but am unable to get behind lights, grills, and so forth, though I do what I can from the edge with a brush.

    I keep FC normally at 5, though it falls occasionally to 4; I don't believe I can keep FC above 7, as some of the swimmers have asthma and high FC concerns them. I don't recognize the following term you used, i.e., "...maintain a higher 15% FC/CYA ratio...", unless you mean 15% of CYA 40 = 6ppm FC; that would be difficult as FC rises above 50.

    I don't have a phosphate-level test. I would appreciate a pointer to where this removal is described.

    Thanks.
    Jaywalker

    In-ground, 11,000 gallon, plaster, in-line trichlor pucks or BBB bottled chlorine, 1.5 HP pump @ ~100 gallons/minute, cartridge filter

  14. Back To Top    #14

    TFP Guide

    In the Industry

    Join Date
    May 2007
    Location
    New Brunswick Canada
    Posts
    819

    Re: Polyquat Dosage

    I believe you were getting close to minimums a couple of time and its questioned whether you really did eradicate this algae completely. That's why 15% of CYA is recommended as your minimum until you are sure its gone. The phosphate treatment is only done when its higher then 2000 ppb. Phosphates can help algae continue to grow but if proper cl levels are maintained its rarely needed. Have you passed an OCLT?

  15. Back To Top    #15

    Join Date
    Dec 2009
    Location
    San Antonio, Texas
    Posts
    78

    Re: Polyquat Dosage

    A clarification, please. Is the 15% of CYA permanent, or is it until it passes an overnight chlorine drop test? That I can easily do, as we're no longer swimming this season.

    No, it did not pass OCDT this cycle.
    CYA 40, target FC >= 24
    Began shock
    29 Oct after dark - FC=25.5
    30 Oct AD - FC=33
    31 Oct not measured but probably ~30
    1 Nov AD - 34.5
    2 Nov Before Dawn - 30.0, shock continues
    2 Nov AD not measured, probably ~35
    3 Nov AD - 39.5
    4 Nov Before Dawn - 36.0
    (Unfortunately, ran out of R-0871 when old 0.75 oz containers (with new reagent) shattered, spilling the rest.)
    I'll continue shock when reagent arrives.
    Jaywalker

    In-ground, 11,000 gallon, plaster, in-line trichlor pucks or BBB bottled chlorine, 1.5 HP pump @ ~100 gallons/minute, cartridge filter

  16. Back To Top    #16

    TFP Guide

    In the Industry

    Join Date
    May 2007
    Location
    New Brunswick Canada
    Posts
    819

    Re: Polyquat Dosage

    I would wait til you pass OCLT, then once that happens, I would keep the 15% up for another week. That will ensure everything is dead.

    Still have to vacuum and brush twice daily to ensure nothing hiding or hanging on. Ensure eyeballs are aimed properly to promote proper circulation.

  17. Back To Top    #17

    Join Date
    Mar 2007
    Location
    San Rafael, CA USA
    Posts
    12,082

    Re: Polyquat Dosage

    If you have yellow/mustard algae and have high algae nutrient levels in the pool, then it takes an FC level that is at least 15% of the CYA level to prevent that algae from growing. The normal Pool School level for regular green and black algae is an FC that is 7.5% of the CYA level. And yes, this would be permanent if you don't get rid of the algae or do something else to prevent its growth. So at 50 ppm CYA that would be an FC of 7.5 ppm. That's why I was giving you some other options. Though it is best to completely eradicate the algae through shocking at a higher level and exposing it wherever it exists, you haven't been able to do that so far.

    The Taylor K-1106 tests for phosphates up to 1000 ppb. If you were to use a phosphate remover such as Orenda PR10,000 then you'd lower the phosphate level to 100 ppb or below.
    16,000 gallon outdoor in-ground 16'x32' plaster pool; Pentair Intelliflo VF pump; Pentair IntelliTouch i9+3s control system; Jandy CL-340 square foot cartridge filter
    12 Fafco solar panels; Purex Triton PowerMax 250 natural gas heater (200,000 BTU/hr output); automatic electric pool safety cover; 4-wheel pressure-side "The Pool Cleaner"

  18. Back To Top    #18

    Join Date
    Dec 2009
    Location
    San Antonio, Texas
    Posts
    78

    Re: Polyquat Dosage

    Thank you, I appreciate it.

    Does it make sense to combine the methods - phosphate remover and high chlorine?

    We have just (nearly) completed a significant rain even in which I had to drain water from the pool to prevent it flooding the yard, so I am ready to begin again.

    Edited to add: Leslie's confirmed my CYA = 40, but surprised me with a reading of Phosphates = 0.
    Jaywalker

    In-ground, 11,000 gallon, plaster, in-line trichlor pucks or BBB bottled chlorine, 1.5 HP pump @ ~100 gallons/minute, cartridge filter

  19. Back To Top    #19

    Join Date
    Dec 2009
    Location
    San Antonio, Texas
    Posts
    78

    Re: Polyquat Dosage

    Results post.

    I didn't care for the "other chemicals" issues, so I continued, as advised, with the chlorine shock.

    As I mentioned previously, I began the shock on 29 Oct 2014, had a pause in the middle due to a significant rain event in which I had to pump water from the pool to prevent overflow from flooding the yard.

    On 7 Nov I did achieve a passing overnight chlorine drop test of 1.0, but decided to continue the shock in case that was an aberration or the result of a poorly-drawn or -measured sample.

    On the morning of 11 November I achieved an OCDT result of 0.5 ppm, and consider that definitive. It did cost about $90 for the chlorine, plus whatever I had remaining from previous treatments, plus the cost of replacing anti-evapopration pool floats - $30-$50. It wasn't cheap, but this time I'm pretty sure I did kill the mustard algae, so if I get another infestation, I'm pretty sure it will be from another source than that which I did not kill in my pool. We'll see.
    Jaywalker

    In-ground, 11,000 gallon, plaster, in-line trichlor pucks or BBB bottled chlorine, 1.5 HP pump @ ~100 gallons/minute, cartridge filter

  20. Back To Top    #20

    Join Date
    Mar 2007
    Location
    San Rafael, CA USA
    Posts
    12,082

    Re: Polyquat Dosage

    Quote Originally Posted by Jaywalker View Post
    Does it make sense to combine the methods - phosphate remover and high chlorine?
    So it's a moot point given your latest shock and belief that you got rid of the algae, but if you do decide to reducer phosphates in the future then you won't need to have higher chlorine. It's either/or, you don't need to do both. With a lower phosphate level, algae grows more slowly so that normal chlorine levels will kill even yellow/mustard algae faster than it can grow.

    If your phosphates were truly 0 as Leslie claimed, then you would have no algae growth at all. I'm pretty sure their number is bogus.
    16,000 gallon outdoor in-ground 16'x32' plaster pool; Pentair Intelliflo VF pump; Pentair IntelliTouch i9+3s control system; Jandy CL-340 square foot cartridge filter
    12 Fafco solar panels; Purex Triton PowerMax 250 natural gas heater (200,000 BTU/hr output); automatic electric pool safety cover; 4-wheel pressure-side "The Pool Cleaner"

Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •