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Thread: Problems with Whirlpool

  1. Back To Top    #1

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    Problems with Whirlpool

    First, sorry to be long winded but I feel like I need to give you the whole story so that you can understand what is going on.
    I have just been tasked at work to be the person in charge of taking of our pool and whirlpool. The previous person will not return any calls to answer any questions so I am flying blind and on top of it I have never done this before.
    From the get go I first tested both the pool and WP to get a baseline of where I was starting from. My test resaults were no where close to the recomended readings. Sorry I dont have those readings with me right now but I took my samples to the local pool store and for the pool the TA was low the PH was low (6.8) but what took the cake was the FC was .06 and the CYA was 158+. For the WP the pool people tested the water 4 times twice with strips, once with their computer, and once with chem. On all but the computer the FC was off the charts and the computer read .06.

    Now with alot of work and TLC and learning I am getting the pool under control.
    FC: 12.6 (this high due to high CYA per The Pool Calculator)
    CC: 1 (CC and TC are the same right?)
    PH: 7.0 (had this up to 7.2 but having a hard time keeping it up)
    TA: 120
    CYA: I still cant read with my testing so I keep it at 150
    I do have an orp/ph constant meter but I just use this as a quick check.

    My problem is with the WP. I did a partial drain just last night (not sure how many gal but if I had to guess I would say somewhere between 1/4 to 1/2). I know I should test everything but I stop at FC which I just cant get a reading on. I add the two scoops of DPD the water turns red then clear so I add one more and it turns pale red....I start to add the reagent and it just keeps getting reder and reder and never goes clear. I have gone up to about 25 ppm but stop cause Im just so ****** off about this.

    So after this long post my question is this. How do I know if my WP is bromine or chlorine? and....Anyone have any advice?

    I if the WP is bromine I will be moving to Chlorine just because my boss wants things as simple as possable.

    Thanks for all the help.

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    Mod Squad JVTrain's Avatar
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    Re: Problems with Whirlpool

    The only way to know for sure if it is bromine or chlorine in the spa/whirlpool is based on the available chemicals around before you started taking it over. I myself could tell you just by the smell alone as I've maintained my spa with both chlorine and bromine. Have you added any chlorine to the whirlpool? Are there still any pucks or floaters in the spa? Check inside the filter compartment and the skimmer basket above it for anything. The spa doesn't have a salt water chlorinator or anything like that?

    What test kit do you have? The TF-100 or K-2006?

    Anyway, the DPD test should work even at high FC levels with 2-3 scoops of the powdered reagent. If you've added 3 scoops and it does not turn pink after you've swirled/stirred briefly then you have ZERO FC, which is bad. Add a drop or two of the R-0871 reagent (the larger white bottle in the TF-100 kit) to verify that the color does not get clearer. Then you add 5 drops of the R-0003 and it should turn pink then if you have CC greater than 0. Then you add R-0871 dropwise to determine CC level.

    Read through the FAS-DPD extended instructions here: Extended Test Kit Directions Note that this is instructions specifically for FAS-DPD testing that comes with the TF-100 or K-2006 kits.

    Update your signature with as many details as you can about your pool and spa to get better advice. You can alter your signature by following the Settings -> Edit Signature links.

    Also... Welcome to TFP!
    Joel - TFP Moderator - Minnesota - **Become a TFP Supporter!** Helpful Links: ABCs of Pool Water Chemistry - SLAM Procedure - Chlorine/CYA Chart
    40x20 Pool: 32K Gallons * Vinyl * Bleach Chlorination * Hayward S270T Sand Filter * Pentair SuperFlo 1 HP * Teledyne/Laars Heater * AquaVac Tigershark * TF-100 w/ SpeedStir
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    Re: Problems with Whirlpool

    Quote Originally Posted by MNDooley View Post
    CC: 1 (CC and TC are the same right?)
    No. TC is FC + CC. FC is "Free Chlorine" aka chlorine available to kill bad stuff. CC is chlorine that is combined with bad stuff right now. A CC higher than .5 means you got something lurking in there.

    I would not trust a single # coming from the pool store. You need to get yourself a reliable test kit (TF-100 is the best, more accurate test kit -- click link from JVTrains signature) and do it yourself.

    Is this an indoor pool? As JVTrain stated, you need to update your signature with as many details about the pool as possible. Above ground, in ground, indoor, outdoor, plaster/vinyl, capacity, type of equipment, etc.
    14K Freeform Gunite w/60% Blue Quartz plaster, Quad DE filter, Intelliflo VS Pump + Booster for Cleaner, Aquacal Heat Pump

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    Re: Problems with Whirlpool

    Thanks for the Welcome and the info. I am assuming that it is running chlorine bc when I took over the spa stunk and all that was around was chlorine pucks. Had the builder test my water when he was changing one of the pumps and he said that he is pritty sure that its chlorine for the same fact and that it is at 30ppm. So I did a complete drain tonight. Will keep you updated.

    Still need to work on my signature but here ya go.
    Pool: 16823 Gal/In Door/IG (Plaster)/Sand Filter/Chlorine/Apx 10y old/ORG and pH meter with auto supply of chem/2 Skimmers/2 Drain
    Whirlpool: 781 Gal/In Door/IG (Plaster)/Sand Filter/Not sure of San/Apx 10y old/ORG and pH meter with auto supply of chem
    Test both with Taylor K-2006 daily.

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    Re: Problems with Whirlpool

    If you did a complete drain your CYA should be 0, which is a good beginning. However, your FC will also be 0, which is not a good beginning, so add some chlorine as soon as possible.

    Post all test results after the fill here -- FC, CC, PH, TA, CH & CYA for further recommendations.
    14K Freeform Gunite w/60% Blue Quartz plaster, Quad DE filter, Intelliflo VS Pump + Booster for Cleaner, Aquacal Heat Pump

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    Re: Problems with Whirlpool

    Quote Originally Posted by zethacat View Post
    If you did a complete drain your CYA should be 0, which is a good beginning. However, your FC will also be 0, which is not a good beginning, so add some chlorine as soon as possible.

    Post all test results after the fill here -- FC, CC, PH, TA, CH & CYA for further recommendations.
    Thx for the reply. The builder updated my ORP settings to fit better with my setup (apparently someone before me had bother the pool and wp set way to high). Showed him the test result of my original computerized test for the pool and was impressed that i got everything but the cya and pH in check so fast and that my pH is so close 7.1. This is what he got today.
    Fc 16.5
    Cc .01
    PH 7.1
    Ta 140
    Cya 158

    He did put an emphasis on the fact that the pool will be much easier to take care of once I get it all "right" just because of the size difference "things will change much faster in the wp". I will update my wp numbers in the morning after I give the Chem's time to circulat, till then no one is allowed in.


    I just thought of something....would it be a good thing to put in my signature that these are public pools in a motel?

    This site is awesome I have learned so much from you all. Thank you
    Pool: 16823 Gal/In Door/IG (Plaster)/Sand Filter/Chlorine/Apx 10y old/ORG and pH meter with auto supply of chem/2 Skimmers/2 Drain
    Whirlpool: 781 Gal/In Door/IG (Plaster)/Sand Filter/Not sure of San/Apx 10y old/ORG and pH meter with auto supply of chem
    Test both with Taylor K-2006 daily.

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    Re: Problems with Whirlpool

    Just got done testing. Here are my results (I finally got real numbers for my WP.....woohoo).

    WP:
    FC 9.2
    pH 7.5
    TA 230
    CH 250
    CYA 45
    temp 98 deg F

    Unfortunately all I have is triclor for san so the cya is up higher than what I want. Also, need to turn the ORP down a bit more, its set at 600 but cya and chlorine is still to high. It was set at 775 before so that explains some of the problems.
    Pool: 16823 Gal/In Door/IG (Plaster)/Sand Filter/Chlorine/Apx 10y old/ORG and pH meter with auto supply of chem/2 Skimmers/2 Drain
    Whirlpool: 781 Gal/In Door/IG (Plaster)/Sand Filter/Not sure of San/Apx 10y old/ORG and pH meter with auto supply of chem
    Test both with Taylor K-2006 daily.

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    Re: Problems with Whirlpool

    Your target FC is 7. That is what you should aim for. TA seems abnormally high. Did you add baking soda?
    14K Freeform Gunite w/60% Blue Quartz plaster, Quad DE filter, Intelliflo VS Pump + Booster for Cleaner, Aquacal Heat Pump

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    Re: Problems with Whirlpool

    Nope only thing that was added was from the orp\ph meter which should be chlorine tabs and maybe muric acid (sp) which is automaticly added.
    Would you like me to retest?

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    Re: Problems with Whirlpool

    I am going to bring up the elephant in the room on this subject, you mentioned that this is at work, many / most states have fairly strict, often contradictory and also often very archaic standards for pools and spa's operated for the public. You need to find out what the regulations are in your state and who the authority is that is in charge of them.
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    Re: Problems with Whirlpool

    Not an elephant at all, I do have to get my CPO. And am studying for it. I have 90 days from the point of taking over, and still have two and a half months to get it. I just wanted to get everything safe for people first. Thanks for caring but I'm on top of it.

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    Re: Problems with Whirlpool

    Neither chlorine tabs nor muriatic acid are capable of raising TA from 140 to 230.
    14K Freeform Gunite w/60% Blue Quartz plaster, Quad DE filter, Intelliflo VS Pump + Booster for Cleaner, Aquacal Heat Pump

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    Re: Problems with Whirlpool

    Hmmm I'll have to retest.

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    Re: Problems with Whirlpool

    I'm also curious whether the pool had already been refilled when your builder gave you those test results. There is no way CYA could have dropped from 158 to 45 without replacing water.
    14K Freeform Gunite w/60% Blue Quartz plaster, Quad DE filter, Intelliflo VS Pump + Booster for Cleaner, Aquacal Heat Pump

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    Re: Problems with Whirlpool

    Yes I did a complete drain last night. Or am I misunderstanding your question.

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    Re: Problems with Whirlpool

    You did the drain AFTER your PB tested CYA at 158?
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    Re: Problems with Whirlpool

    Yep....all my info said that's the right thing to do.

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    Re: Problems with Whirlpool

    That is correct. How did your CYA get back up to 45 so quickly?
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    Re: Problems with Whirlpool

    Looks like you're getting lots of good advice. TA can be high in many municipal water supplies but ideally in your spa you'd want that level down to 70 or below to combat the pH rise that will occur due to the out gassing of carbon dioxide that is ever present in highly aerated spas. Adding acid is the only way to lower TA. Keep adjusting your pH down to 7.0-7.2 with acid and when pH rises to 7.8-8.0 add more acid again. This step wise process will lower the TA into a manageable range. In a hot tub with jets running, your pH will rise from 7.2 to 7.8 very quickly with that high TA.
    Joel - TFP Moderator - Minnesota - **Become a TFP Supporter!** Helpful Links: ABCs of Pool Water Chemistry - SLAM Procedure - Chlorine/CYA Chart
    40x20 Pool: 32K Gallons * Vinyl * Bleach Chlorination * Hayward S270T Sand Filter * Pentair SuperFlo 1 HP * Teledyne/Laars Heater * AquaVac Tigershark * TF-100 w/ SpeedStir
    Isolated Spa - 345 Gallons

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    Re: Problems with Whirlpool

    Op has pool and spa, he drained the spa which now has 45 cya. The 158 cya was from the pool
    32,000L Fibreglass Leisure Pools IG 12.5'x23'x5' Pump: AstralPools BX1 1.0HP
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