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Thread: CYA test not working

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    Daf-Tekno's Avatar
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    CYA test not working

    Hi People,

    I've just started up my newly-filled hot tub, and am getting to grips with a Taylor K-2006 test kit.

    The various chemicals are not quiet in check yet, but the CYA is constantly coming back as "infinity"!

    My test sample, when mixed with the CYA reactant, simply does NOT turn cloudy!

    My 1700 L tub has had 450 mL of liquid "Stabiliser" added, and still no cloudiness to the sample!
    I am worried I may end up putting too much in, but it just isn't registering on the test!

    Might I have a faulty CYA test reactant..?

    Any suggestions would be greatly appreciated.
    Thanks.

    - D
    Jacuzzi J480 (2008) 1700 litres, Balboa ozonator, Delta EZ-18-120 UV lamp via custom 6-way 2-tier timer solenoid array, 2 x Waterway 4HP main pumps,
    1 x Aqua-Flow 1/15 HP circ pump, ChlorMaker IL SWG, SmartSeal + Roxul skirting insulation, 8' x 8' ThermoFloat Spa blanket, 100" x 100" Gator coverall

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    Re: CYA test not working

    To avoid confusion could you describe your test results in relation to the visibility of the black dot. Are you saying you completely fill the cylinder and the black dot is still visible? That would be a 0 reading, not an infinity reading.
    21K gal 16' x 40' in-ground pool built 1959, old school with Jacuzzi bronze pump, American Products 24" Sand Filter & Americana Multiport valve, Jandy Lite2 millivolt heater, Coverstar cover, and classic Kreepy Krauly.

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    pwrstrk's Avatar
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    CYA test not working

    Also, how long has it been since you added the CYA and you took the test ? CYA can take up to a week to fully register on a test. 😎
    Jeff
    24'x54" AG Morada RTR (by wilbar) 13'500 gal. Hayward Powerflo Matrix 1hp 2 speed. Hayward Perflex EC65 DE filter.

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    Re: CYA test not working

    Quote Originally Posted by pwrstrk View Post
    Also, how long has it been since you added the CYA and you took the test ? CYA can take up to a week to fully register on a test. ��
    I thought liquid CYA was instant. I've had 4 lbs of HTH granular stabilizer poured directly into skimmer bring me from 0 to 30 overnight.
    14K Freeform Gunite w/60% Blue Quartz plaster, Quad DE filter, Intelliflo VS Pump + Booster for Cleaner, Aquacal Heat Pump

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    Daf-Tekno's Avatar
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    Re: CYA test not working

    Yes, sorry, my water is totally clear, so black dot is always visible.

    Which indeed means a reading of 0 not infinity.
    Sorry, my mind's a bit mangled today!

    I used liquid stabiliser, so thought it would register fairly instantly.
    But even liquid stabiliser takes a week to fully register on a test, yes..?

    - D
    Jacuzzi J480 (2008) 1700 litres, Balboa ozonator, Delta EZ-18-120 UV lamp via custom 6-way 2-tier timer solenoid array, 2 x Waterway 4HP main pumps,
    1 x Aqua-Flow 1/15 HP circ pump, ChlorMaker IL SWG, SmartSeal + Roxul skirting insulation, 8' x 8' ThermoFloat Spa blanket, 100" x 100" Gator coverall

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    Re: CYA test not working

    Liquid stabilizer should register on the test within hours.

    Can you tell us exactly what product was added?
    Jason, TFP Moderator
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    Daf-Tekno's Avatar
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    Re: CYA test not working

    I'm using Natural Chemistry "Instant Pool-water Conditioner"
    Jacuzzi J480 (2008) 1700 litres, Balboa ozonator, Delta EZ-18-120 UV lamp via custom 6-way 2-tier timer solenoid array, 2 x Waterway 4HP main pumps,
    1 x Aqua-Flow 1/15 HP circ pump, ChlorMaker IL SWG, SmartSeal + Roxul skirting insulation, 8' x 8' ThermoFloat Spa blanket, 100" x 100" Gator coverall

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    Re: CYA test not working

    For the experts: (with intent of helping OP)
    If a hot tub is covered most of the time (and therefore much less exposure to sun) would CYA be necessary?

    Obviously if there is sun exposure, it is needed, but most people are trying to keep the tub as warm as possible with a cover to save on heating costs.

    I'm not sure how the OP is operating his system, but wanted to bring that point up.
    John (DIYer). Concrete, approximately 13,000 gallon in-ground pool with adjoining concrete spa. Approximately 40 years old. Hayward Super II pump for pool and legacy Anthony Sta-Rite bronze pump CF6 for spa, VA-26 filter,(2 sets), Rheem propane heater for spa. HASA Liquidator for pool.

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    Re: CYA test not working

    Looking at the MSDS for that product shows that it is inert, if it had any CYA in it, there should be some mention of an environmental impact.

    I think it is just high priced salt...
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    pwrstrk's Avatar
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    CYA test not working

    Quote Originally Posted by zethacat View Post
    I thought liquid CYA was instant. I've had 4 lbs of HTH granular stabilizer poured directly into skimmer bring me from 0 to 30 overnight.
    Sorry missed the part about it being liquid stabilizer. My mistake. Thanks.
    Yes liquid should show fairly quick.
    Jeff
    24'x54" AG Morada RTR (by wilbar) 13'500 gal. Hayward Powerflo Matrix 1hp 2 speed. Hayward Perflex EC65 DE filter.

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    Re: CYA test not working

    Sun protection is one thing the CYA does. The other is buffering the harshness of the chlorine and holding some in reserve which is still applicable for spas and indoor pools.

    Are there ingredients listed on the package?
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    Re: CYA test not working

    Quote Originally Posted by hoosierrun View Post
    For the experts: (with intent of helping OP)
    If a hot tub is covered most of the time (and therefore much less exposure to sun) would CYA be necessary?

    Obviously if there is sun exposure, it is needed, but most people are trying to keep the tub as warm as possible with a cover to save on heating costs.

    I'm not sure how the OP is operating his system, but wanted to bring that point up.
    Even with a covered spa a low level of CYA (20 - 30ppm) is advisable. The instructions for spa care are covered very well HERE.
    TFP Moderator 39 X 18 23,000(ish) freeform gunite; built 2007ish; Pentair Triton II TR100 600lb Sand filter; 2 HP Pentair pump with 2.2 HP AO Smith single speed motor; 2 skimmers, 1 main drain, 4 returns w/waterfall, Stenner 45MHP2 3GPD running@ 60% - 15 gal Tank; heated by the sun CYA 200+ when I started - 50 now. Dolphin Supreme M5 Pool Cleaner. Hot Springs SX Spa, 285 gallon

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    Re: CYA test not working

    Quote Originally Posted by Griswald View Post
    Looking at the MSDS for that product shows that it is inert, if it had any CYA in it, there should be some mention of an environmental impact.

    I think it is just high priced salt...
    Looking at the instructions for the product on the Natural Chemistry website:
    >> 1 gallon of Instant Pool Water Conditioner raises conditioner (stabilizer) level in 10,000 gallons by 32ppm <<

    it seems pretty clear that it does contain CYA.
    18' x 48" ring top pool (Summer Escapes); 5500 gallons; set up June - October, stored during winter; Intex 2500 gph pump (B size cartridge filter) Hayward 21" sand filter + 1.5 hp single speed Powerflo Matrix pump (upgrade October 2016) *** K-2006 test kit, refills from tftestkits

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    Re: CYA test not working

    The MSDS sheet does not list ingredients. If it did contain CYA I believe the MSDS would need to state that:
    http://www.horizonpoolsupply.com/_ul...onditioner.pdf

    In addition the website says (emphasis mine):
    "Regular cyanuric acid with a pH of 2.8 is very acidic and it takes from 4 to 7 days to dissolve.... Natural Chemistry's Instant Pool Water Conditioner is not an acid (it's a salt)"
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    Mod Squad jblizzle's Avatar
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    Re: CYA test not working

    Being that this was for a hot tub, I assume you did not use the entire bottle. Did you shake the bottle up very well before adding it as the direction state? If not, I wonder if the CYA settled to the bottom of the bottle and you did not actually add very much
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    Re: CYA test not working

    Two people have now suggested that this product doesn't even contain CYA, which is probably a distraction from the OP's problem in measuring CYA levels in his/her water.

    Here is a quote from chem geek, from a June 2011 thread:
    The Natural Chemistry Instant Pool Water Conditioner (which is the same as Leslie's Instant Conditioner) has been around for a while as "Instant Pool Water Conditioner" and is sodium cyanurate in a slurry. It dissolves quickly into water so is a fast way to increase CYA.
    18' x 48" ring top pool (Summer Escapes); 5500 gallons; set up June - October, stored during winter; Intex 2500 gph pump (B size cartridge filter) Hayward 21" sand filter + 1.5 hp single speed Powerflo Matrix pump (upgrade October 2016) *** K-2006 test kit, refills from tftestkits

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    Re: CYA test not working

    Quote Originally Posted by Daf-Tekno View Post
    Yes, sorry, my water is totally clear, so black dot is always visible.

    Which indeed means a reading of 0 not infinity.
    Sorry, my mind's a bit mangled today!

    I used liquid stabiliser, so thought it would register fairly instantly.
    But even liquid stabiliser takes a week to fully register on a test, yes..?

    - D
    If you still have the empty conditioner bottle, maybe there are a few drops left in there, allowing you to do a test of the CYA reagent in your K-2006 kit? For example, if you put half a teaspoon of the conditioner into a gallon of water, I think (rough approximation) that should give you CYA levels somewhere around 200 ppm -- should be very noticeable when doing CYA test procedure. This is from doing the numbers in my head, so you may want to double check.

    edited: Since you're using metric system, around 2-3 ml in 4 l water would be similar -- I'm sure you get the general idea.

    I know there aren't that many CYA tests in the K-2006 (roughly half a dozen), but if you're really suspicious of the reagent, this test may be worth a try.
    18' x 48" ring top pool (Summer Escapes); 5500 gallons; set up June - October, stored during winter; Intex 2500 gph pump (B size cartridge filter) Hayward 21" sand filter + 1.5 hp single speed Powerflo Matrix pump (upgrade October 2016) *** K-2006 test kit, refills from tftestkits

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    Re: CYA test not working

    Also, can I ask what CYA level you were aiming for in your hot tub? 450 ml of liquid stabilizer in just 1700 liters of water gives quite a high CYA level... close to 100 ?
    18' x 48" ring top pool (Summer Escapes); 5500 gallons; set up June - October, stored during winter; Intex 2500 gph pump (B size cartridge filter) Hayward 21" sand filter + 1.5 hp single speed Powerflo Matrix pump (upgrade October 2016) *** K-2006 test kit, refills from tftestkits

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    Daf-Tekno's Avatar
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    Re: CYA test not working

    I'm aiming for a CYA level of 70 ppm as I have an SWG system.
    Jacuzzi J480 (2008) 1700 litres, Balboa ozonator, Delta EZ-18-120 UV lamp via custom 6-way 2-tier timer solenoid array, 2 x Waterway 4HP main pumps,
    1 x Aqua-Flow 1/15 HP circ pump, ChlorMaker IL SWG, SmartSeal + Roxul skirting insulation, 8' x 8' ThermoFloat Spa blanket, 100" x 100" Gator coverall

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    Re: CYA test not working

    You don't follow the pool recommendations for a spa since there are differences. In a spa you don't need nor want the CYA that high. 30-40 ppm CYA should be sufficient. The reason for the higher CYA level in SWG pools is to lower the loss of chlorine from sunlight because most SWGs are undersized and also to minimize the rate of pH rise by minimizing SWG on-time. For a covered spa, there should be minimal loss in sunlight (only if you open it during the day).

    Also, note that chlorine maintenance in a spa is different in that you add a substantial amount of chlorine after your soak to oxidize the bather waste. In a pool the chlorine loss from bather load is normally negligible, but that's not at all true in a spa. See the sticky on How do I use Chlorine in my Spa.
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