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Thread: plan to replace 50% water and slam monday any tips?

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    plan to replace 50% water and slam monday any tips?

    last recorded levels from 9/26:
    chlorine way over 5ppm
    PH 7.8
    FC 18ppm
    CC 0
    TC 18ppm
    CH 450 ppm
    TA 150
    CYA 100

    Plan to SLAM monday as I brought sump pump and ordered water. Algae is only popping up in small spots which I brush off, will do all tests again tomorrow before draining.
    So I replace 1/2 the water and follow SLAM instructions and stop using bromine in line feeder just liquid bleach?
    Any other tips?
    Thanks any other Trouble free pool users around wimberley tx?
    14000, IG, gunnite, Hayward cartridge C4030, Hayward tristar spx3210x15z1pe 1.5HP (? two speed or variable speed pump?) April 2014 TF-1000 Test Kit :XL Option, ultra pure uv ozone generator, pentaire in line chlorine feeder (disabled), Polaris 360

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    Kiss4aFrog's Avatar
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    Re: plan to replace 50% water and slam monday any tips?

    Welcome

    You didn't say it but I'm guessing it's to lower the CYA ??

    Dump half the water and then switch to liquid bleach and the other recommended chemicals as outlined here - - > http://www.troublefreepool.com/conte...pool-chemicals
    '70s IG Vinyl 32K gal, Lazy L, Hayward SuperPump 1.5hp 120V, S240 Sand Filter W/DE
    Solar Blanket, Well Water, Borax Added, TF-100 tester. ? too cold
    1979, 275gal Conway Emerald Spa P-100-2, ES-2 Spa Pack, bromine floater, indoor
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    pwrstrk's Avatar
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    plan to replace 50% water and slam monday any tips?

    Welcome to TFP !
    Don't forget your PH test is invalid with FC levels at 10 or higher.
    Let your FC drift down prior to SLAMing and recheck PH and make adjustments if needed. You'll want the PH in the low 7's. 😎
    Jeff
    24'x54" AG Morada RTR (by wilbar) 13'500 gal. Hayward Powerflo Matrix 1hp 2 speed. Hayward Perflex EC65 DE filter.

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    Re: plan to replace 50% water and slam monday any tips?

    How confident are you of the CYA number? Often when someone reports CYA at 100, the actual level turns out to be higher -- since '100' is the highest number printed on the tube used for the CYA test, people tend to write down '100' if the black dot disappears quickly...

    Also, if you currently are running a bromine pool (sounds like it, since you mention a bromine feeder) your situation is somewhat different (different than the chemistry of most of the pools people talk about on the forum). Are you trying to convert your pool to a chlorine pool, or are you simply trying to get rid of algae at the moment?
    18' x 48" ring top pool (Summer Escapes); 5500 gallons; set up June - October, stored during winter; Intex 2500 gph pump (B size cartridge filter) Hayward 21" sand filter + 1.5 hp single speed Powerflo Matrix pump (upgrade October 2016) *** K-2006 test kit, refills from tftestkits

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    Re: plan to replace 50% water and slam monday any tips?

    It looks like you may not be testing your water with an adequate test kit. Please correct me if I'm wrong about that. I'd be suprised if your CYA isn't actually higher maybe even substantially.
    Pool size: 24000gal inground Vinyl-Taylor k-2006 and k-1766 test kits and-speed stir
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    Re: plan to replace 50% water and slam monday any tips?

    "How confident are you of the CYA number?"

    I will test again today, but the black dot didn't seem to disappear too fast, but it was the first time I had used the test kit

    "Are you trying to convert your pool to a chlorine pool, or are you simply trying to get rid of algae at the moment?"

    i'm trying to convert after getting rid of algae and bringing CYA level down
    14000, IG, gunnite, Hayward cartridge C4030, Hayward tristar spx3210x15z1pe 1.5HP (? two speed or variable speed pump?) April 2014 TF-1000 Test Kit :XL Option, ultra pure uv ozone generator, pentaire in line chlorine feeder (disabled), Polaris 360

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    Re: plan to replace 50% water and slam monday any tips?

    i'm using the one recommended by these forums with all the suggested added tests, but only tested once so far going to again today so will post results soon
    TF-100 Test Kit :XL Option: Speedstir Magnetic Stirrer
    14000, IG, gunnite, Hayward cartridge C4030, Hayward tristar spx3210x15z1pe 1.5HP (? two speed or variable speed pump?) April 2014 TF-1000 Test Kit :XL Option, ultra pure uv ozone generator, pentaire in line chlorine feeder (disabled), Polaris 360

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    Re: plan to replace 50% water and slam monday any tips?

    Great!!! I was hoping that was the answer. You could do a diluted test 50/50 pool and tap water then multiply the result by 2. Hopefully, you'll get a 50 or lower result before multiplication. That will give you a better indication of how much water you'll need to replace.
    Update: or maybe not. When I first started doing my own testing, I wasn't aware of the of other dilution methods and ended up doing four different samples using up a bunch/all of my r-0013. To get a reading above the 90 line. That found my Cya to be over 350. That's why I asked that question in the first place.
    Pool size: 24000gal inground Vinyl-Taylor k-2006 and k-1766 test kits and-speed stir
    Intermatic P1353ME digital timer w/freeze sensor
    CircuPool Si-45 SWCG System
    Polaris 280 vacuum/Polaris PB4-60 boost pump
    Pentair IntelliFlo VS 3hp Pump--Pentair sand filter

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    Re: plan to replace 50% water and slam monday any tips?

    well i did the tests and CYA is over 100, i'll try the test you suggest
    FC 3.5
    ph 7.8
    cc 0
    TC 3.5
    CH 350
    TA 110
    CYA 100+
    14000, IG, gunnite, Hayward cartridge C4030, Hayward tristar spx3210x15z1pe 1.5HP (? two speed or variable speed pump?) April 2014 TF-1000 Test Kit :XL Option, ultra pure uv ozone generator, pentaire in line chlorine feeder (disabled), Polaris 360

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    Re: plan to replace 50% water and slam monday any tips?

    i did the test mixing 50/50 pool tap water and the result was 80!
    Does that mean I have to replace more than 50% of the water?

    And I still don't understand how the cya gets that high if I'm just following guidelines from pool company keeping cl and ph levels using bromine feeder and shocking weekly?
    14000, IG, gunnite, Hayward cartridge C4030, Hayward tristar spx3210x15z1pe 1.5HP (? two speed or variable speed pump?) April 2014 TF-1000 Test Kit :XL Option, ultra pure uv ozone generator, pentaire in line chlorine feeder (disabled), Polaris 360

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    Re: plan to replace 50% water and slam monday any tips?

    Quote Originally Posted by bauden View Post
    i did the test mixing 50/50 pool tap water and the result was 80!
    Does that mean I have to replace more than 50% of the water?
    That would indicate a CYA level of 160. What CYA level are you aiming for prior to SLAM? That would tell you how much of the pool water you need to replace, and, yes, it sounds like it would be well over 50%.

    And I still don't understand how the cya gets that high if I'm just following guidelines from pool company keeping cl and ph levels using bromine feeder and shocking weekly?
    If the weekly shock product is dichlor (?), that would explain the high CYA -- dichlor adds CYA as well as chlorine every time it is used -- the chlorine is used up, but the CYA stays almost indefinitely. Pool store people usually don't know or don't care about the consequences of high CYA levels. If the pool gets into trouble as a result, it's an opportunity for them to sell more products to stressed pool owners...

    I am not sure how a SLAM should be conducted in a bromine pool -- I believe the addition of chlorine releases/activates the bromine that's already in the pool, and that it's a bromine compound that is then active in sanitation/killing algae. It's quite possible that the FC levels won't behave the same as they would in a chlorine pool during SLAM. However, I speak from very little knowledge here. Hopefully someone more knowledgeable about bromine pools will chime in soon. Also, the search function here on the forum should be helpful to you, for SLAM, as well as eventual conversion from bromine to chlorine. I do remember reading a number of opinions that such conversion requires total water replacement; although there have been some posters describing a more gradual conversion.
    18' x 48" ring top pool (Summer Escapes); 5500 gallons; set up June - October, stored during winter; Intex 2500 gph pump (B size cartridge filter) Hayward 21" sand filter + 1.5 hp single speed Powerflo Matrix pump (upgrade October 2016) *** K-2006 test kit, refills from tftestkits

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    Re: plan to replace 50% water and slam monday any tips?

    "What CYA level are you aiming for prior to SLAM?"

    not sure how to determine that?

    could i just shook pool with chlorine weekly after i slam?
    this is getting more confusing and complicated.
    14000, IG, gunnite, Hayward cartridge C4030, Hayward tristar spx3210x15z1pe 1.5HP (? two speed or variable speed pump?) April 2014 TF-1000 Test Kit :XL Option, ultra pure uv ozone generator, pentaire in line chlorine feeder (disabled), Polaris 360

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    Re: plan to replace 50% water and slam monday any tips?

    You choose a CYA level. If the pool is out in the open, no trees, no shade from the house you'd likely want 40 or 50 in your region. If you are at 160 CYA presently you don't necessarily need to drop it down all the way to that 40-50 range at once. Might be safer not draining more than 50% at any one time. You can run into problems with your plaster cracking or even the pool itself floating up depending on your ground water level. If you are ordering water delivered you likely can't use a drain and fill method as the truck isn't going to want to sit there and add water at the rate you drain it out to try and keep it close to full all the time during the procedure.

    Once you have replaced the water you should really try to test your water daily and if you follow the way maintenance is recommended here you don't need to shock as you maintain a proper level of chlorine (FC) in relation to whatever level of CYA you have.

    https://www.google.com/#q=bromine+to+chlorine+pool

    I would recommend you do a bit of research on bromine to chlorine conversion and also read up on the TFP (Trouble Free Pool method) method of pool care in pool school. http://www.troublefreepool.com/content/186-show-all_1
    You may as well get used to the idea that some/most people (pool store employees, pool service personnel) who are supposed to be knowledgeable on pool maintenance and chemicals aren't. IMHO, That's why your CYA was able to get so high.
    '70s IG Vinyl 32K gal, Lazy L, Hayward SuperPump 1.5hp 120V, S240 Sand Filter W/DE
    Solar Blanket, Well Water, Borax Added, TF-100 tester. ? too cold
    1979, 275gal Conway Emerald Spa P-100-2, ES-2 Spa Pack, bromine floater, indoor
    TF-100, Best test kit - TFTestkits.net
    Please help keep the lights on, become a TFP Supporter!

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    Re: plan to replace 50% water and slam monday any tips?

    Thank you thank you
    I feel like an idiot, the guys who put in my pool never gave me a 101 so i've been all over the place with this. I realize my pool has always been chlorine NOT bromine as I've been using chlorine tabs.
    So I am not converting from bromine to chlorine just don't plan to use powder or tablets anymore. On the feeder as it says chlorine/bromine I thought this was a combination Not a choice.
    Anyway still draining the pool
    14000, IG, gunnite, Hayward cartridge C4030, Hayward tristar spx3210x15z1pe 1.5HP (? two speed or variable speed pump?) April 2014 TF-1000 Test Kit :XL Option, ultra pure uv ozone generator, pentaire in line chlorine feeder (disabled), Polaris 360

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    Re: plan to replace 50% water and slam monday any tips?

    Well, that explains the mystery of why someone would be maintaining an outdoor pool in Texas with bromine . It didn't make a lot of sense, since bromine can't be stabilized in sunlight the way chlorine can, and, as far as I know, the sun shines pretty often down there.

    It also makes it easier to help you through this process, as most members here have experience doing a SLAM on a chlorine pool.

    If you bring CYA down to 80 (with the planned 50% dilution), that means you'd need a shock level (during SLAM) of 31 ppm of FC. Take a look at PoolMath, if you haven't done so yet, to see what kind of quantities of bleach you'll need to get to that level, and to maintain the level:
    http://www.troublefreepool.com/calc.html

    From the description in your first post, it doesn't sound as thought your algae problem is too awful, so the amount of bleach you end up using may not be too bad, even at the fairly high CYA level of 80. If you can get a bit more water replacement (more than 50% new water) at tomorrow's water delivery, your required FC levels will be a bit lower during SLAM (requiring a bit less lugging of bleach containers).

    The chlorine tabs you have been using (probably trichlor) would continually add CYA to the pool, along with the chlorine. Dichlor and trichlor products both carry this extra payload of CYA -- the stabilizer is useful, of course, but only up to a certain point.
    18' x 48" ring top pool (Summer Escapes); 5500 gallons; set up June - October, stored during winter; Intex 2500 gph pump (B size cartridge filter) Hayward 21" sand filter + 1.5 hp single speed Powerflo Matrix pump (upgrade October 2016) *** K-2006 test kit, refills from tftestkits

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    Re: plan to replace 50% water and slam monday any tips?

    Quote Originally Posted by bauden View Post
    The guys who put in my pool never gave me a 101 so i've been all over the place with this.
    Not a problem. Just keep asking questions and pretty soon well get you wherever you want to be (within reason )
    '70s IG Vinyl 32K gal, Lazy L, Hayward SuperPump 1.5hp 120V, S240 Sand Filter W/DE
    Solar Blanket, Well Water, Borax Added, TF-100 tester. ? too cold
    1979, 275gal Conway Emerald Spa P-100-2, ES-2 Spa Pack, bromine floater, indoor
    TF-100, Best test kit - TFTestkits.net
    Please help keep the lights on, become a TFP Supporter!

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    Re: plan to replace 50% water and slam monday any tips?

    yea i feel more comfortable about this now and i'm learning a lot which can't hurt, thanks
    14000, IG, gunnite, Hayward cartridge C4030, Hayward tristar spx3210x15z1pe 1.5HP (? two speed or variable speed pump?) April 2014 TF-1000 Test Kit :XL Option, ultra pure uv ozone generator, pentaire in line chlorine feeder (disabled), Polaris 360

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    Re: plan to replace 50% water and slam monday any tips?

    I notice an ozone generator in your signature information -- that should probably be turned off during SLAM -- I believe the ozone breaks down chlorine, thereby increasing chlorine consumption, which you don't need/want during SLAM. I don't know (numerically) how large the effect of the ozone generator is.
    18' x 48" ring top pool (Summer Escapes); 5500 gallons; set up June - October, stored during winter; Intex 2500 gph pump (B size cartridge filter) Hayward 21" sand filter + 1.5 hp single speed Powerflo Matrix pump (upgrade October 2016) *** K-2006 test kit, refills from tftestkits

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    Re: plan to replace 50% water and slam monday any tips?

    Conventional wisdom here recommends cya of 30-50 for a non-swg pool. In TX, I'm assuming you get a lot is sunshine there and 50 is probably a better level for your pool. That would require a 69% drain and replace. You could do that drain and refill in two parts, say, a 50% and a 38%. The benefit of doing that is your shock level is only 20ppm. And your goal range for fc would be 4-8. @ cya of 80, you're shock level is 31 and normal range is 6-11. The lower level in either case is the absolute minimum your fc should ever get to and the upper levels are what you would dose to every time you test and replenish fc -- which should be daily. Most folks around here I believe would recommend lowering it to 50. 80 is manageable up to a point. That point being having to slam your pool. But if you keep your fc up to recommended levels either way, you shouldn't have to slam. that's a pretty big IF.
    Pool size: 24000gal inground Vinyl-Taylor k-2006 and k-1766 test kits and-speed stir
    Intermatic P1353ME digital timer w/freeze sensor
    CircuPool Si-45 SWCG System
    Polaris 280 vacuum/Polaris PB4-60 boost pump
    Pentair IntelliFlo VS 3hp Pump--Pentair sand filter

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    pwrstrk's Avatar
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    plan to replace 50% water and slam monday any tips?

    I would agree with the CYA level of 50. If you lose more than 3 ppm of FC during the course of a day then bump it up to 60. CYA of 80 is a bit too high for a non SWG pool IMO. 😎
    Jeff
    24'x54" AG Morada RTR (by wilbar) 13'500 gal. Hayward Powerflo Matrix 1hp 2 speed. Hayward Perflex EC65 DE filter.

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