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Thread: Rebar sticking up from gunite

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    Rebar sticking up from gunite

    We had a gunite pool shot last Thursday and this has been bothering me since they put the steel in but I kept forgetting to ask.

    Why would there be rebar sticking up vertically from the outside beam?

    Is that to tie into decking? I've heard tying the pool into decking isn't a good idea.

    Possible grounding?

    Also, is the rebar grounded to the electrical grid or should it be? Not in the city limits and in a rural setting.

    Thanks for any info!


    19K gallon free-formed w/ 60% Color Quartz plaster
    3.5' x 5.5' x 4' depths - 15' x 20' 15' widths - 12" oval raised spa with spillover
    Hayward 1.85 hp TriStar VS Pool & 1.25 hp water feature pump - Cartridge Filter
    Hayward OnCommand automation system - 400K BTU heater - LED lights for pool & spa
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    Corleone's Avatar
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    Re: Rebar sticking up from gunite

    I'm not sure, but my shotcrete has the same thing.

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    Re: Rebar sticking up from gunite

    Probably for electrical bonding.
    chiefwej
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    Re: Rebar sticking up from gunite

    First I'd ask my PB why the rebar is protruding. As you mention concrete decks generally do not tie into the rebar but there are exceptions. Are there plans and engineering specs? Many pool engineers specify the pool deck interface. If you are having a wall, even a small one, that may require the tie in.

    Generally its not a problem to cut any protruding rebar and cover it with coping. The coping is sealed by grout or whatever is used to lay it with and that seals in the rebar if its cut flush.

    So its probably not a big deal. If you think its a problem post some pictures.

    Rebar in a pool is connected to a bonding grid. You should find a #8 copper wire (a little smaller than a pencel) entering the pool shell in four places and connected to the pool rebar structure with pressure clamps The clamps should be encased in the gunite so you shouldn't be able to see them now. There should also be one going to each light niche. It is for electrical bonding, not a ground. They do different things. If you can't find those ask your pool builder to show them to you. They are very important. Again pictures are good.

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    cwescapexlt4x4's Avatar
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    Re: Rebar sticking up from gunite

    Mine did and was gone/incorporated into the deck pouring.
    Chris - aka cwescapexlt4x4
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    Re: Rebar sticking up from gunite

    Mine had the same thing, PB even said he told them they didn't need to do that. The extra rebar was cutoff by the decking crew when they did their work.
    12K gal, custom flipped kidney bean with spillover spa. All Pentair equipment, Whisperflo 1 1/2 HP, 400K BTU heater, Intellichlor IC 40 SWG, CCP-320 Cartridge filters, Kreepy Krauly pool cleaner with bootster pump, QuartzScapes in Aruba Sky blue, LED lights and travertine tiles for decking and stones on rear edge for landscaping. TF-100 test kit w/ SpeedStir

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    Re: Rebar sticking up from gunite

    Thanks. I prefer to run some grounds from it for peace of mind. Will call the PB today. We are in south central Texas, it appears to be common around here to have them sticking up from seeing other builds.


    19K gallon free-formed w/ 60% Color Quartz plaster
    3.5' x 5.5' x 4' depths - 15' x 20' 15' widths - 12" oval raised spa with spillover
    Hayward 1.85 hp TriStar VS Pool & 1.25 hp water feature pump - Cartridge Filter
    Hayward OnCommand automation system - 400K BTU heater - LED lights for pool & spa
    20' weeping moss rock wall - 5' x 8' tanning ledge with bubbler

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    Corleone's Avatar
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    Re: Rebar sticking up from gunite

    That looks nothing like the prison work crew who did our shotcrete haha. We had a rough bunch, but they did good work so no complaints on my end.

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    Glock's Avatar
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    Re: Rebar sticking up from gunite

    Quote Originally Posted by Corleone View Post
    That looks nothing like the prison work crew who did our shotcrete haha. We had a rough bunch, but they did good work so no complaints on my end.

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    Re: Rebar sticking up from gunite

    That looks different. But not necessarily wrong. Clearly they have rebar sticking up as part of their normal build. Ask your PB why they do it. Looks like good gunite work too. No one shoveling around overspray.
    22k gallon IG pebblefina, Jandy 1.5 HP VS, Jandy CV Cartridge filter, Fafco solar panels, Polaris 360 supply side cleaner, waterfall

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    Re: Rebar sticking up from gunite

    Quote Originally Posted by Keithb View Post
    Thanks. I prefer to run some grounds from it for peace of mind.
    They are not ground wires. They would be bonding wires.

    Everyone gets confused because they mix up the 2 completely different functions.
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    Re: Rebar sticking up from gunite

    They are actually all at the outside of the beam after the pour was complete. I talked to the PB and they did confirm they do bond it and that the rebar is typically folded down and tied into the decking where applicable and cut off where there isn't decking. They also tie the decking into existing patio and house slabs.

    I read yes and no for tying into the decking so I'm not sure what the best method is. The settling of our soils around here would lead me to believe it should be tied together.

    Overall we've been very pleased with our PB. I have the security camera out there with an NVR that's also doing time lapse photos in 5, 15 minute and 1 hour intervals. Can't wait to combine the final video.


    19K gallon free-formed w/ 60% Color Quartz plaster
    3.5' x 5.5' x 4' depths - 15' x 20' 15' widths - 12" oval raised spa with spillover
    Hayward 1.85 hp TriStar VS Pool & 1.25 hp water feature pump - Cartridge Filter
    Hayward OnCommand automation system - 400K BTU heater - LED lights for pool & spa
    20' weeping moss rock wall - 5' x 8' tanning ledge with bubbler

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    Re: Rebar sticking up from gunite

    I know they will bond to the electric but I was considering adding some earth grounds from the rebar to ground rods as well.


    19K gallon free-formed w/ 60% Color Quartz plaster
    3.5' x 5.5' x 4' depths - 15' x 20' 15' widths - 12" oval raised spa with spillover
    Hayward 1.85 hp TriStar VS Pool & 1.25 hp water feature pump - Cartridge Filter
    Hayward OnCommand automation system - 400K BTU heater - LED lights for pool & spa
    20' weeping moss rock wall - 5' x 8' tanning ledge with bubbler

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    Beadedbiker's Avatar
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    Re: Rebar sticking up from gunite

    Hey, a thread I can help on. I just spent all weekend researching this stuff because an issue came up on my build.

    Ahem (clears throat). According to Section 680.26(B)(1) of the National Electrical Code 2011. Its sad that as a homeowner I can quote the right section from memory, But I ended up having to read it. And then reread it, until I fully understood it.

    Anyway the rebar sticking up is supposed to be part of the conductive pool shell. The section number I quoted deals with it. The structural rebar they leave is acceptable as a point of connection for electrically bonding to the pool shell bonding 'circuit'. Usually they run a bonding wire - as many have noticed this is a size 8 AWG solid bare copper wire, usually it runs around inside the pool, is clamped to the rebar at various points, and is also clamped to the shell of any lights. Every point the rebar crosses is tied with steel wire, and this makes the whole rebar cage what they term an equipotential grid - any thing metal must be connected to this grid, including anything the water goes through that can can cause electricity to enter the water - so the pump and heater. Also a 3' area around the pool must also be bonded. The perimeter bonding must be connected in at least 4 points uniformly spaced around the pool. The pool pump and heater also have to tie in to the perimeter bond also. While they often run the bonding wire to the equipment pad, also tying in to the structural metal of the pool shell and perimeter provides a grid and a multipoint failsafe form of bonding, that a single wire cannot provide alone.


    If you are still awake and with me, this is why: This way, if there is any kind of short in any of the electrics, you, the water and all the things that you can touch near it are all all have the same amount of electricity flowing through them. Or as it is called the same 'electrical potential'. It is all connected or 'bonded' together. Electricity will always try to take all available paths to a lower potential, the difference between electrical potentials is what we call 'voltage'. Electricity is only dangerous tries to return to a source of lower potential through you. If everything is at the same 'electrical potential' including you, then you are safe. Because you are no longer a route to a lower potential. Its why birds can sit on a high voltage line, and linemen can work on them while electricity is flowing through them. As long as nothing they touch makes a route to something which is not at the same voltage - e.g. the actual ground. People often get confused between bonding and grounding. The earth itself has an extremely low electricity potential and has a basically limitless capacity to soak up electricity, so it is used a 'ground' or a place to send lots of electricity safely. The lights and electrics of the pool get grounded so if there is a surge or lightning strike or fault, the excess electricity goes to ground. But you do not want to be this route it takes, so you make sure that when you are in or near the water, the only things you can be in contact with are all at the same potential.


    This is what the rebar is for. Its not for structural support. Its for equipotential bonding. Its to be tied to the rebar/mesh of any deck around the pool, if you don't have concrete decks, then either a mesh or copper wire is buried beneath the pavers or lawn and is connected at at least 4 points around the pool to some of the rebar. The recent build "in Georgia" has great pictures (albeit sideways on!) illustrating this grid before its buried, because they have it set up to add pavers later.
    When they put the coping on, at least on my pool, they either added mortar, or beat the rebar into the gunite to recess it (depending on elevation - to level it all perfectly), before mortaring the coping on top. The rebar ends up just sticking out the side of the pool. It will either be cut off if not used, or used to tie into the bonding around the perimeter and buried, either by concrete or below grade.

    And that ladies and gentlemen, is more information about electricity and pool bonding than you ever wished you didn't know. Why yes, my weekend was scintillating....

    EDIT. Yeah, you don't ground a bonding circuit. It defeats the purpose. Leave it to the professionals on this one. Its part of the inspection line items for the pool bonding and if you mess with it, you will fail your pool inspection.
    Eva.
    We are building a 14x28 in ground with a spillover spa...
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    Re: Rebar sticking up from gunite

    Wow Eva - Very Impressive! And that's just one more reason why you're part of our pool crawl team.

    Keith - is that a spillover in your spa? I would be very interested to see how that looks finished out. And how deep is your pool? Just looking at the one gunite worker who is watching the other worker and has his head above the water line. - Karen
    New in 2017, will update

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    Beadedbiker's Avatar
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    Rebar sticking up from gunite

    And as if by magic. Look what they did on my pool today. Thought this pic would help you see what I'm rambling on about. Should be able to see the grounding clamp connecting the shell rebar, some #8 copper and the deck rebar mesh all together.

    Just wanted to edit in that this picture is how they tie into to the deck before it's covered with concrete. They buried copper wire under my soil for the part that isn't concreted. But you can't see anything but soil. This demonstrates the connection pretty clearly.




    Eva.
    We are building a 14x28 in ground with a spillover spa...
    All Pentair Equipment, 3HP VS pump, Sand Filter, 250K BTU gas heater, 2HP blower.
    Easytouch 4. Pentair Racer Cleaner.

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    Re: Rebar sticking up from gunite

    Thanks beadedbiker, very thorough. The PB did say they tie the rebar into the decking also. The electrician should be here this week.

    Karen- that is actually a bench all the way around the spa. The depth on the nearest end by tanning ledge is 3'6", middle 5'6", 4' on the far end. Width is 15' on the ends and about 19' in the middle by 37'.


    19K gallon free-formed w/ 60% Color Quartz plaster
    3.5' x 5.5' x 4' depths - 15' x 20' 15' widths - 12" oval raised spa with spillover
    Hayward 1.85 hp TriStar VS Pool & 1.25 hp water feature pump - Cartridge Filter
    Hayward OnCommand automation system - 400K BTU heater - LED lights for pool & spa
    20' weeping moss rock wall - 5' x 8' tanning ledge with bubbler

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