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Thread: New cell or whole new SWG?

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    n240sxguy's Avatar
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    New cell or whole new SWG?

    I have a six year old pool frog hybrid system that I inheritted with our pool. Until we bought the place this summer, the system was run 24/7 during the swim season and maintaining the ultra low chlorine level they recommend. I put a timer on the pump, and raised the output up to run the chlorine the TFP way. It maintained the chlorine level while running the pump about 8 hours per day. Over the last couple months the output has dropped off. I tested the salt, added more to get it in the proper range, and even tried cleaning the cell. It was clean with no scaling prior to me cleaning it. One of the plates is corroded, and I figured it was probably close to the end of its life. Now the output won't go above the lowest level. I've been running it about 13 hours a day, and it has struggled to maintain the chlorine at the lower end of the recommended range. I've added bleach twice just to get it back up around 6-7 ppm, and it will slowly drift back down to about 3. I decided today to just switch over to bleach to get through the next month until I can close it, and stop wasting money on electricity running it so much each day. I'm weighing my options on salt cells/systems for next year. So far I'm down to either replace the cell with the next larger size for $448, or go to a pentair IC60 for $1046. Does anybody know of a definitive way to test the controller to make sure it is actually outputting the correct current? I'd hate to buy a replacement cell just to find out the controller is shot too. This system runs at 12vdc and varies the current based on the output setting. I've seen where others run up around 24vdc, or vary the voltage between 12-24vdc. I plan to get an amp meter to check the output current, but if it says it's outputting the lowest level, I don't know what good that would actually be. Can you put a resistor between the cell leads and verify that the controller is actually outputting the correct current if the cell is bad, and not drawing enough current? Also, is there another high output SWG that I have overlooked? It seems most stop at around 1.4lbs/day. The IC60 and the resilience A7 cell that I would replace my current one with both put out 2lbs/day.
    30K gallon IG vinyl. 1.5HP 2-speed Waterway Mustang pump. 600 lb sand filter. Polaris 280. Circupool SI-60+. TF-100

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    sargent's Avatar
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    Re: New cell or whole new SWG?

    Autopilot and Circupool have units that will put out 2 lbs/day.
    14k gal IG vinyl, Jandy Flopro 1 hp up-rated, 2 spd pump, Hayward 325 sq ft cartridge filter, Circupool Si-40 SWCG

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    n240sxguy's Avatar
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    Re: New cell or whole new SWG?

    I've read mixed reviews on circupool, so I ruled them out. I don't understand why the autopilot can't just say what it does and not shroud the whole thing in some technological jargon mystery. It looks like the biggest one would be about $600 more than the pentair, but the cell is half the price to replace. Something to think about before next year.


    30K gallon IG vinyl. 1.5HP 2-speed Waterway Mustang pump. 600 lb sand filter. Polaris 280. Circupool SI-60+. TF-100

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    Re: New cell or whole new SWG?

    I installed my Circupool this spring and I couldn't be happier. Yes, I did have a few issues, but they were quickly and completely resolved. I fully trust their customer/ tech support.
    Pool size: 24000gal inground Vinyl-Taylor k-2006 and k-1766 test kits and-speed stir
    Intermatic P1353ME digital timer w/freeze sensor
    CircuPool Si-45 SWCG System
    Polaris 280 vacuum/Polaris PB4-60 boost pump
    Pentair IntelliFlo VS 3hp Pump--Pentair sand filter

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    n240sxguy's Avatar
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    Re: New cell or whole new SWG?

    I may have to revisit circupool. They have one that outputs 2.5 and 3.1 lbs/day. I want one big enough that I can run the pool 3-4 hours and still generate enough chlorine. I need to do the math on 5 years of chlorine and see which one wins out; salt or bleach. I can make a peristaltic system. Just need to figure the bleach cost.


    30K gallon IG vinyl. 1.5HP 2-speed Waterway Mustang pump. 600 lb sand filter. Polaris 280. Circupool SI-60+. TF-100

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    Mod Squad jblizzle's Avatar
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    Re: New cell or whole new SWG?

    Every time I have seen a cost comparison, in the long run SWG and bleach seem to come out almost the same. Just depends if you want to pay more now or spread it out over the years and haul bleach pretty often.
    Jason, TFP Moderator
    18k IG pebblesheen pool, Hayward ProLogic P4 w/ T-15 SWG, Pentair 1HP 2-speed Superflo, Hayward 6020 DE filter
    500 sqft Heliocol solar panels, ThePoolCleaner, TF-100 test kit w/ SpeedStir
    Pool School + Test Kit + PoolMath = A TROUBLE FREE POOL
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    n240sxguy's Avatar
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    Re: New cell or whole new SWG?

    How long does bleach hold its strength when it's in a tank out in the heat? My pad is shaded most of the day, so I don't know how much the sun would heat a tank. If I could just fill a 15 gallon tank once a month, that would make it seem viable to me. I like the idea of the surety that the chlorine is there. No depending on the "magic" box to create it out of salt.


    30K gallon IG vinyl. 1.5HP 2-speed Waterway Mustang pump. 600 lb sand filter. Polaris 280. Circupool SI-60+. TF-100

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    Mod Squad jblizzle's Avatar
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    Re: New cell or whole new SWG?

    Depends on the temperature, but I don't think a month is realistic. I think you need almost a gallon a day to maintain FC levels don't you?

    Chem geek has a table somewhere showing how quickly the strength drops.

    You would still have to worry about the pump/timer working, the tubes clogging or cracking, etc. Nothing is truly worry free.
    Jason, TFP Moderator
    18k IG pebblesheen pool, Hayward ProLogic P4 w/ T-15 SWG, Pentair 1HP 2-speed Superflo, Hayward 6020 DE filter
    500 sqft Heliocol solar panels, ThePoolCleaner, TF-100 test kit w/ SpeedStir
    Pool School + Test Kit + PoolMath = A TROUBLE FREE POOL
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    n240sxguy's Avatar
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    Re: New cell or whole new SWG?

    2ppm is showing 103oz, so yeah almost a gallon a day. Figuring 4 months swim time, that is just over 100 gallons. Regular cheap bleach is $3 a gallon. I don't think any pool stores around here have the strong stuff. Based on my simple math, it looks like the SWG wins out huge after the third year. Around $300 for stenner pump and tank unless I put something together myself. Probably still $100 if I do that.


    30K gallon IG vinyl. 1.5HP 2-speed Waterway Mustang pump. 600 lb sand filter. Polaris 280. Circupool SI-60+. TF-100

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    Re: New cell or whole new SWG?

    I have a circupool and I'm happy but it seems to be high maintenance - clogs easily. But my salt his high and according to their tech support that can be a problem.

    But my SI30+ does my 15K pool at 27% - but I have water solar so it runs a lot.

    But I paid ~ $625 for the system. Hayward wants nearly that for a cell!
    SWG: CircuPool (May 2014) SI30+Plus; 3000ppm seems ideal;
    My Ideal Specs:
    FC 5; PH 7.4-7.6; TA 90; CH 350; CYA 75; = SI ~ 0.19
    14,000 gal, in ground, plaster, Cartridge filter, Borates
    TAYLOR K - 2006

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    n240sxguy's Avatar
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    Re: New cell or whole new SWG?

    All of them the size I'm looking at are in the $1200 range. I could buy two like yours to have some redundancy. The pentair cell is like $700 alone because it has all the controls built in. The "controller" is just a power supply.


    30K gallon IG vinyl. 1.5HP 2-speed Waterway Mustang pump. 600 lb sand filter. Polaris 280. Circupool SI-60+. TF-100

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    Re: New cell or whole new SWG?

    I was under the impression that circupools max out at 2.0 lbs/ 24hrs, but I really haven't seen much about their 60 model except there's a replacement cell for it. My pool is only 24,000 gals stop the si- 45 is fine for me. But to keep up with daily loss during the hot months, I've run it as much as 24 hrs @80%-- now, down to 60% for 12 hrs.
    Sorry my mistake, they now show the si-60 specs which is the 3.1 lbs I'll plug that into pool math to see what my spreadsheet says you can expect.
    Pool size: 24000gal inground Vinyl-Taylor k-2006 and k-1766 test kits and-speed stir
    Intermatic P1353ME digital timer w/freeze sensor
    CircuPool Si-45 SWCG System
    Polaris 280 vacuum/Polaris PB4-60 boost pump
    Pentair IntelliFlo VS 3hp Pump--Pentair sand filter

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    Re: New cell or whole new SWG?

    Ok, I've run the numbers. An estimate of what FC you'll get with the si-60 for 4 hrs @100% is 1.65--not hardly enough to keep up with a 3 ppm FC loss you might anticipate. However 8hrs runtime should get you approx 3.30 increase-maybe or maybe not enough to keep up. But 12 hrs should give you about 4.96 increase which almost certainly will be enough for loss you might expect. I can send you a copy of the spreadsheet to play with if you pm me your email addy.
    Pool size: 24000gal inground Vinyl-Taylor k-2006 and k-1766 test kits and-speed stir
    Intermatic P1353ME digital timer w/freeze sensor
    CircuPool Si-45 SWCG System
    Polaris 280 vacuum/Polaris PB4-60 boost pump
    Pentair IntelliFlo VS 3hp Pump--Pentair sand filter

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    Re: New cell or whole new SWG?

    Quote Originally Posted by n240sxguy View Post
    How long does bleach hold its strength when it's in a tank out in the heat? My pad is shaded most of the day, so I don't know how much the sun would heat a tank. If I could just fill a 15 gallon tank once a month, that would make it seem viable to me. I like the idea of the surety that the chlorine is there. No depending on the "magic" box to create it out of salt.
    This post shows tables for degradation of 12.5% chlorinating liquid and 8.25% bleach over time at various temperatures.
    16,000 gallon outdoor in-ground 16'x32' plaster pool; Pentair Intelliflo VF pump; Pentair IntelliTouch i9+3s control system; Jandy CL-340 square foot cartridge filter
    12 Fafco solar panels; Purex Triton PowerMax 250 natural gas heater (200,000 BTU/hr output); automatic electric pool safety cover; 4-wheel pressure-side "The Pool Cleaner"

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    Re: New cell or whole new SWG?

    Quote Originally Posted by timerguy View Post
    Ok, I've run the numbers. An estimate of what FC you'll get with the si-60 for 4 hrs @100% is 1.65--not hardly enough to keep up with a 3 ppm FC loss you might anticipate. However 8hrs runtime should get you approx 3.30 increase-maybe or maybe not enough to keep up. But 12 hrs should give you about 4.96 increase which almost certainly will be enough for loss you might expect. I can send you a copy of the spreadsheet to play with if you pm me your email addy.
    Pm sent


    30K gallon IG vinyl. 1.5HP 2-speed Waterway Mustang pump. 600 lb sand filter. Polaris 280. Circupool SI-60+. TF-100

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    n240sxguy's Avatar
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    Re: New cell or whole new SWG?

    Looks like I'll be staying with SWG. Wife said she liked the salt, and and money spent on the pool needed to head that direction. Fine with me.


    30K gallon IG vinyl. 1.5HP 2-speed Waterway Mustang pump. 600 lb sand filter. Polaris 280. Circupool SI-60+. TF-100

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    Re: New cell or whole new SWG?

    Quote Originally Posted by n240sxguy View Post
    I don't understand why the autopilot can't just say what it does and not shroud the whole thing in some technological jargon mystery. It looks like the biggest one would be about $600 more than the pentair, but the cell is half the price to replace. Something to think about before next year.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
    ?? Not sure what reference to technological jargon mystery you refer to.
    However, you can use this link to verify most system's outputs, as tested by NSF.
    http://info.nsf.org/Certified/pools/...submit1=SEARCH

    I can also tell you that there are MANY overstated claims on manufacturers literature as to how much chlorine they generate. Please be careful.
    Sean Assam - Sean@teamhorner.com
    National Accounts and Commercial Products Manager
    AquaCal Heat Pumps www.aquacal.com
    AutoPilot Salt Chlorine Generators www.autopilot.com

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    n240sxguy's Avatar
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    Re: New cell or whole new SWG?

    Quote Originally Posted by Poolsean View Post
    ?? Not sure what reference to technological jargon mystery you refer to.
    However, you can use this link to verify most system's outputs, as tested by NSF.
    http://info.nsf.org/Certified/pools/...submit1=SEARCH

    I can also tell you that there are MANY overstated claims on manufacturers literature as to how much chlorine they generate. Please be careful.
    Most manufacturers sites, whether accurate or not, list the size pool they are recommended for, and the actual amount of chlorine they supposedly make in a day. The autopilot site, and maybe it's just on my phone, looks more like a blog that happens to sell stuff. Their products seem to be well made, but are much more expensive than the competition I'm looking at. Thanks for that link. I'll check it out. I work at a plant that makes several hundred thousand pounds of liquid and vapor chlorine a day. I understand the process. I don't need all the fluff. I want hard data that says this is how much each unit is expected to produce. I can compare that with a price and reviews to decide which one best meets my needs. Hopefully that's what your link provides. Everything to do with a pool seems shrouded in mystery like all the magic potions and stuff.


    30K gallon IG vinyl. 1.5HP 2-speed Waterway Mustang pump. 600 lb sand filter. Polaris 280. Circupool SI-60+. TF-100

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    Re: New cell or whole new SWG?

    [QUOTEI can also tell you that there are MANY overstated claims on manufacturers literature as to how much chlorine they generate. Please be careful.[/QUOTE]

    This is the stuff that worries me. They should all have to test under the same conditions, or at least provide their testing parameters where it's easier to compare the different models.


    30K gallon IG vinyl. 1.5HP 2-speed Waterway Mustang pump. 600 lb sand filter. Polaris 280. Circupool SI-60+. TF-100

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    Mod Squad jblizzle's Avatar
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    Re: New cell or whole new SWG?

    So go to the link provided that has standardized outputs.
    Jason, TFP Moderator
    18k IG pebblesheen pool, Hayward ProLogic P4 w/ T-15 SWG, Pentair 1HP 2-speed Superflo, Hayward 6020 DE filter
    500 sqft Heliocol solar panels, ThePoolCleaner, TF-100 test kit w/ SpeedStir
    Pool School + Test Kit + PoolMath = A TROUBLE FREE POOL
    If you found TFP helpful and we saved you money ... Become a TFP Supporter!

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