Become a TFP Supporter Pool Math Forum Rules Pool School
Results 1 to 17 of 17

Thread: Saltwater cell the gas trap and solar

  1. Back To Top    #1
    Sticky's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2009
    Location
    WoyWoy Australia
    Posts
    90

    Saltwater cell the gas trap and solar

    Hi guys

    So I have decided to go SWG and just found out I need a gas trap where the cell sits higher than the filter .

    My first concern is that the flow of the intelliflo VF 30GPM will be to low to move the Hydrogen gas from the cell I have seen reports on whirlpool forums where a low flow pumps lowest setting was allowing gas to build up in the cell chamber

    and second

    is that how the air from the solar panels 3 x helicol sunX 40s running at 28GPM will effect the cell, I am worried that the air will get trapped in the cell chamber or will the priming of the panels flush the air from the panel through ?

    anyone running a SWG with solar panels that the water the runs thru the cell can allay my concerns please ? .

    thanks
    Dave
    7 meter by 2 Meter pebblecrete , VF intelliflo , Pentair ECO-CHLOR 25 , 5 helicol Sunx 40 solar panels & a Associated controls solar controller with an intellicom 3 to control the VF and relay to switch to valves .

  2. Back To Top    #2

    Join Date
    Mar 2007
    Location
    San Rafael, CA USA
    Posts
    12,082

    Re: Saltwater cell the gas trap and solar

    The minimum flow rate required for the SWG will vary some by device, but they are usually around 25 or 30 GPM minimum. The SWG should also have a flow sensor and if the flow is too low it will tell you "No Flow" and will shut off SWG chlorine production. Air from the solar panels should get flushed through the unit just as with any other plumbing.
    16,000 gallon outdoor in-ground 16'x32' plaster pool; Pentair Intelliflo VF pump; Pentair IntelliTouch i9+3s control system; Jandy CL-340 square foot cartridge filter
    12 Fafco solar panels; Purex Triton PowerMax 250 natural gas heater (200,000 BTU/hr output); automatic electric pool safety cover; 4-wheel pressure-side "The Pool Cleaner"

  3. Back To Top    #3
    Sticky's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2009
    Location
    WoyWoy Australia
    Posts
    90

    Re: Saltwater cell the gas trap and solar

    Ok thanks Chem Geek well I should be ok then , it just seemed logical that if there is a gas trap it would trap air expunged from the panels , but I also realized many people must have it set up this way so it must work .
    7 meter by 2 Meter pebblecrete , VF intelliflo , Pentair ECO-CHLOR 25 , 5 helicol Sunx 40 solar panels & a Associated controls solar controller with an intellicom 3 to control the VF and relay to switch to valves .

  4. Back To Top    #4

    In the Industry
    malcolmb5325's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2009
    Location
    Sydney, Australia
    Posts
    166

    Re: Saltwater cell the gas trap and solar

    always make sure the cell is plumbed last item on the return to pool line, after the solar.
    16,000lts Fibreglass, Magna Mineral Pool Water
    Jandy CV340 Cartridge filter, Zodiac TRi SWC, Z4 iAqualink, Jandy Laminar Jets, Solar Heating, Spa Jets with Jandy 1.5hp Epump operating everything.

  5. Back To Top    #5
    Sticky's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2009
    Location
    WoyWoy Australia
    Posts
    90

    Re: Saltwater cell the gas trap and solar

    Thanks malcolmb5325 yes I have seen the plumbing for the cells , that's when I realized the cells had to be higher than the filter .
    7 meter by 2 Meter pebblecrete , VF intelliflo , Pentair ECO-CHLOR 25 , 5 helicol Sunx 40 solar panels & a Associated controls solar controller with an intellicom 3 to control the VF and relay to switch to valves .

  6. Back To Top    #6

    Join Date
    Jun 2011
    Location
    Long Beach, CA
    Posts
    2,670

    Re: Saltwater cell the gas trap and solar

    Where did you get the information that the cell needs to be higher than the filter? I haven't seen any information that requires the installation of the cell mounted above the filter.
    16k gal plaster with raised spa, Jandy DEV60 filter, 2 HP 2-speed SHPF Jandy Stealth pump
    Hayward Aqua Rite T-15 SWCG, Jandy LXi 400k BTU NG heater, 350 sq.ft. of Sun Star solar panels, TF-100 Test Kit, Dolphin s300i Cleaner
    Test Kits . Pool Math . Chlorine/CYA Chart . The SLAM Process

  7. Back To Top    #7
    n240sxguy's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2014
    Location
    Benton, KY
    Posts
    1,800

    Re: Saltwater cell the gas trap and solar

    I have yet to see an install on here with the cell higher than the filter. Once your pump is primed and running, there shouldn't be any air in the system. The cell only comes on when there is water flow, so there won't be any build up of hydrogen because it will be pushed to the pool.
    30K gallon IG vinyl. 1.5HP 2-speed Waterway Mustang pump. 600 lb sand filter. Polaris 280. Circupool SI-60+. TF-100

  8. Back To Top    #8

    Join Date
    Jul 2014
    Location
    Sydney Australia
    Posts
    3

    Re: Saltwater cell the gas trap and solar

    I agree with others in that I haven't seen any information that suggests the cell needs to be plumbed higher than the filter.

    After I installed solar heating last year, I destroyed a cell by running too low flow through the salt cell for extended periods. Sure the 'low flow' light must have come on (while I was at work each day) but I don't believe that it actually switches off the salt cell production on a Watermaid chlorinator. If it did, then I wouldn't have burnt out my cell. Maybe other chlorinator brands switch off at low flow ?

  9. Back To Top    #9
    Sticky's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2009
    Location
    WoyWoy Australia
    Posts
    90

    Re: Saltwater cell the gas trap and solar

    Hi

    Page 7 http://www.watermaid.com/media/pdf/p...s-Handbook.pdf and page 5 http://www.astralpool.com.au/sites/d...structions.pdf .

    maybe it is a thing here in Australia all the pool shops I have gone to so far show set ups with the cell above the filter to stop H gas migrating towards the filter like on page 6 here http://www.astralpool.com.au/sites/d...ORINATOR_0.pdf .

    It will be a bit of a pain to plumb but can be done and as you can see from the pic on pages 6 it introduces a high n shaped point to push all the solar air past that's why i was puzzled .

    the gas would actually if it did manage to go backward would end up in the solar return pipe and not the filter .
    7 meter by 2 Meter pebblecrete , VF intelliflo , Pentair ECO-CHLOR 25 , 5 helicol Sunx 40 solar panels & a Associated controls solar controller with an intellicom 3 to control the VF and relay to switch to valves .

  10. Back To Top    #10
    Sticky's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2009
    Location
    WoyWoy Australia
    Posts
    90

    Re: Saltwater cell the gas trap and solar

    20140918_134905.jpg: Exceeds your quota by 1.27 MB. <a href="misc.php?do=attachments" target="_blank">Click here to view your attachments</a> trying to insert a 256kb pic but this come up , why ??
    Ok I see now
    7 meter by 2 Meter pebblecrete , VF intelliflo , Pentair ECO-CHLOR 25 , 5 helicol Sunx 40 solar panels & a Associated controls solar controller with an intellicom 3 to control the VF and relay to switch to valves .

  11. Back To Top    #11

    Join Date
    Jul 2014
    Location
    Sydney Australia
    Posts
    3

    Re: Saltwater cell the gas trap and solar

    The Watermaid manual shows the chlorinator plumbed below the filter on the horizontal installation. I think the diagrams showing the cell plumbing above the filter are just coincidental and I dont think it has to be plumbed "above" the filter. In fact I was at the Watermaid repairs centre at Terrey Hills (NSW, Australia) a few days ago and talked to them about re plumbing my chlorinator. They discussed the gas trap in detail but made no mention that it needs to be above the filter.

  12. Back To Top    #12
    Sticky's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2009
    Location
    WoyWoy Australia
    Posts
    90

    Re: Saltwater cell the gas trap and solar

    Yes I was at the pool shop today talking about it and it is not a govt legislated requirement just advised , I can plumb it with not much trouble I just wold be introducing more 90 deg elbow than I would like .

    Also now I mention the the pool shop guy that I was going salt for the better feel on skin , my Mum who lives with me she cant use the pool because of poor skin from sun cancers was at the shop too , anyway he metioned mineral chlorination and how good it is for people with skin conditions .
    going to start a new thread on this they said there is less chlorine in the water 1.5ppm not 3-4 ppm but when I ask how it keeps the bact and algae down he was not sure Hmmmm ? .
    7 meter by 2 Meter pebblecrete , VF intelliflo , Pentair ECO-CHLOR 25 , 5 helicol Sunx 40 solar panels & a Associated controls solar controller with an intellicom 3 to control the VF and relay to switch to valves .

  13. Back To Top    #13

    Join Date
    Jul 2014
    Location
    Sydney Australia
    Posts
    3

    Re: Saltwater cell the gas trap and solar

    Unfortunately you cannot avoid plumbing a few extra 90deg bends for a chlorinator. You could always substitute some sharp 90deg bends for 90 deg sweeps elbows. http://www.engineeringtoolbox.com/pv...ngs-d_801.html

    You will also get further friction losses with the water going through the salt cell. Maybe consider going for something like a Watermaid or SaltMate as I think their design involves less friction losses that something like a Zodiac or Astral chlorinator where the water flow goes up, a cross and then down. I could be wrong though, what are your thought on it ?

    On a positive note I can confirm that a Saltwater pool is very nice on the skin. In summer I often have a late night swim and jump straight into bed, shower not required. The salt concentration level is around 1/6 to 1/8 that of seawater.

  14. Back To Top    #14

    Join Date
    Mar 2007
    Location
    San Rafael, CA USA
    Posts
    12,082

    Re: Saltwater cell the gas trap and solar

    Quote Originally Posted by Sticky View Post
    Also now I mention the the pool shop guy that I was going salt for the better feel on skin , my Mum who lives with me she cant use the pool because of poor skin from sun cancers was at the shop too , anyway he metioned mineral chlorination and how good it is for people with skin conditions .
    going to start a new thread on this they said there is less chlorine in the water 1.5ppm not 3-4 ppm but when I ask how it keeps the bact and algae down he was not sure Hmmmm ? .
    He's talking about using copper ions in the pool as an algaecide and then lowering the Free Chlorine (FC) level (technically the FC/CYA ratio). Copper ions can stain plaster surfaces (wouldn't be good for your pebblecrete) unless you were to carefully control the copper ion concentration and make sure the pH didn't rise too high. It can also turn blond hair greenish. This is why we don't recommend it. It's also unnecessary if one maintains the proper FC/CYA level.

    The pool shop guy probably doesn't understand the chlorine/CYA relationship so thinks that 3-4 ppm FC is high. The FC number alone is completely irrelevant -- what matters is the FC/CYA ratio since that determines the active chlorine level that would affect swimsuits, skin, and hair. At the minimum FC that is 7.5% of the chlorine level, the active chlorine level is the same as in a pool with only 0.06 ppm FC with no CYA so it's very low.

    If you really wanted to use a lower FC/CYA level and avoid the risk of metal staining, you could use Polyquat 60 algaecide weekly or use a phosphate remover. These are extra cost and as I mentioned they are not necessary, but if you wanted supplemental algae prevention to have an even lower FC/CYA ratio then that is what you could do.
    16,000 gallon outdoor in-ground 16'x32' plaster pool; Pentair Intelliflo VF pump; Pentair IntelliTouch i9+3s control system; Jandy CL-340 square foot cartridge filter
    12 Fafco solar panels; Purex Triton PowerMax 250 natural gas heater (200,000 BTU/hr output); automatic electric pool safety cover; 4-wheel pressure-side "The Pool Cleaner"

  15. Back To Top    #15
    Sticky's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2009
    Location
    WoyWoy Australia
    Posts
    90

    Re: Saltwater cell the gas trap and solar

    Actually I am not sure not that the chlorine is lower than a normal salt pool , what AIS says is that it works with a lower TDS for a typical 3500ppm to 2500ppm , salt pools being aprox 5000 ppm . the anode is titanium maybe the cathode it copper not sure .

    So basically replacing sodium salts with magnesium/potassium and /or calcium chlorides .

    I thought the nice silky feel of the water was caused by the higher amount if sodium ions in the water after being split from the chlorine atoms making the water softer .

    Not sure how much their bags of salt are but I bet its dearer than normal salt .

    Starting to think it is just a way of locking you to their product like Apple .

    Also it uses two cell have to ask about this why it needs two ? hmmmm .
    7 meter by 2 Meter pebblecrete , VF intelliflo , Pentair ECO-CHLOR 25 , 5 helicol Sunx 40 solar panels & a Associated controls solar controller with an intellicom 3 to control the VF and relay to switch to valves .

  16. Back To Top    #16

    Join Date
    Mar 2007
    Location
    San Rafael, CA USA
    Posts
    12,082

    Re: Saltwater cell the gas trap and solar

    Quote Originally Posted by Sticky View Post
    I thought the nice silky feel of the water was caused by the higher amount if sodium ions in the water after being split from the chlorine atoms making the water softer .

    Not sure how much their bags of salt are but I bet its dearer than normal salt .

    Starting to think it is just a way of locking you to their product like Apple .

    Also it uses two cell have to ask about this why it needs two ? hmmmm .
    No, sodium and chlorine atoms aren't "split" by an SWG, but rather when you dissolve sodium chloride salt into the water the atoms are separated by the water molecules themselves. It has nothing to do with an SWG. The feel of a saltwater pool is the same regardless of whether an SWG is used or not. An SWG only uses the chloride (and water or hydrogen ions) and doesn't use the sodium in the water (except as providing general conductivity between the plates, but the sodium is not transformed in any way).
    16,000 gallon outdoor in-ground 16'x32' plaster pool; Pentair Intelliflo VF pump; Pentair IntelliTouch i9+3s control system; Jandy CL-340 square foot cartridge filter
    12 Fafco solar panels; Purex Triton PowerMax 250 natural gas heater (200,000 BTU/hr output); automatic electric pool safety cover; 4-wheel pressure-side "The Pool Cleaner"

  17. Back To Top    #17
    Sticky's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2009
    Location
    WoyWoy Australia
    Posts
    90

    Re: Saltwater cell the gas trap and solar

    Ok just googled it . That's what happens when you assume you know something . The chemistry actually makes more sense now .

    Thanks for making me think chemgeek

    I think I will just go with a normal salt system . Salt is cheap .
    7 meter by 2 Meter pebblecrete , VF intelliflo , Pentair ECO-CHLOR 25 , 5 helicol Sunx 40 solar panels & a Associated controls solar controller with an intellicom 3 to control the VF and relay to switch to valves .

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •