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Thread: High CYA but can't drain till Fall

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    Mirazira's Avatar
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    High CYA but can't drain till Fall

    Hi there new to TFP. I have a 35,000 gallon plaster sand filter pool in Phoenix Arizona. Have had algae for a couple of weeks now, not responding to liquid chlorine. took the water to Leslie's to get tested sure enough CYA level was around 200. They say you can't drain a plaster pool out here until the high temperatures average 86 or below which for us is not until November. (they say with the hot dry air the plaster will crack or whatever) The pool store printed me out a whole bunch of stuff which I don't have in front of me right now, but long story short it had all my levels of everything on it and a couple of alternative recommended courses of action to get rid of the algae for now until we can drain the pool in a couple of months. These pool store recommendations of course involve me purchasing lots of fancy expensive chemicals. I don't mind spending the money if I know it'll work, but I'm skeptical that it will. What do you guys think? Are there ways to get rid of algae in my situation without draining half the pool?
    Thanks!

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    Mod Squad jblizzle's Avatar
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    Re: High CYA but can't drain till Fall

    Welcome to TFP!!!

    Well, once again Leslie's seems to be full on non-sense. Who made that rule up about a max temp?

    You can replace the water now. There have been members in PHX doing it all summer. You have to be careful. Like drain in the evening and start filling over night. Or is you are really worried, drain from the top of the shallow end and fill in the bottom of the deep end at the same time.

    Bottom line, you need to get the CYA down if you want to clear up the algae. And to clear up the algae, you have to follow the ShockLevelAndMAINTAIN Process and to do that correctly and to take control of your pool, you need to invest in one of the Recommended Test Kits.

    And BTW, you need to replace at least 75% of the water not just 50%.
    Jason, TFP Moderator
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    Mod Squad tim5055's Avatar
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    Re: High CYA but can't drain till Fall

    Well, you can spend all the money for the stuff Leslie's wants to sell you and in the end you will still have algae and Leslie's will have a profitable month.

    Jason has given you good advice. You can also do the drain in several stages like I did, a foot of 18 inches at a time. I'm no where near the heat you have, but I misted the exposed plaster with water whole I was doing it.
    TFP Moderator 39 X 18 23,000(ish) freeform gunite; built 2007ish; Pentair Triton II TR100 600lb Sand filter; 2 HP Pentair pump with 2.2 HP AO Smith single speed motor; 2 skimmers, 1 main drain, 4 returns w/waterfall, Stenner 45MHP2 3GPD running@ 60% - 15 gal Tank; heated by the sun CYA 200+ when I started - 50 now. Dolphin Supreme M5 Pool Cleaner. Hot Springs SX Spa, 285 gallon

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    Mirazira's Avatar
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    Re: High CYA but can't drain till Fall

    Thanks guys. so It wasn't the pool store that told me about the no drain in summer thing, that just seems to be the consensus among other pool owners we've talked to. It's encouraging to hear other Phonecians are doing it, and I'd love to know more about how to do it while it's still hot. We've never drained so Um wondering about basics like how do you get the water out, do you have to get some kind of pump? where do you put the old water, the street? Is there a good way to do it using just the back flush hose to remove old water and garden hose to fill?
    also, I will get a test kit, just did the Leslie's so I could find out my CYA same day. Do you think their analysis is even reliable?
    Thanks again!

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    Mod Squad kimkats's Avatar
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    Re: High CYA but can't drain till Fall

    Welcome!

    Most pool stores do not do the tests the right way. Is a test really "free" if it is done to get you to spend money? They do not rinse out the test tubes, etc.

    You can buy or rent a a submersible pump. Buying might be the way for you to go since it will take some time for your drain and refill.

    I just put the water in my yard. You might want to check the rules/laws in your area. I am very rural so not worries about it for me.

    You REALLY need a good test kit of your own.

    You also need to look into using liquid chlorine/bleach. I am guessing you use tablet and powder. That is what caused your CYA to go so high.

    It can be done. Just ask if you have any questions while you are draining.

    Kim
    TFP Moderator 33x52 round AG 25,600 gals Sand Filter 1.5hp Pump - 2 Speed, SLAM, Pool School, Recommended Levels, Recommended Chemicals, Pool Math, Chlorine/CYA Chart, TF-100 Test Kit

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    Re: High CYA but can't drain till Fall

    Ok, I will continue reading previous threads about draining into the sewer clean out as it looks like that is my only option.
    If I get the TF50(2) will the 3 CYA tests be enough for my drain/refill project or will I need to be able to test for CYA more than 3 times?
    ~Thanks
    Goodyear Arizona~yet to be built 25,000 gallon diving pool: Pebble interior/Pentair cartridge filter/in ground cleaning/travertine deck.

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    Re: High CYA but can't drain till Fall

    The TF-100 would be the best value since you have algae and will need to be testing your FC frequently and you will probably need to test your CYA more than 3 times. The TF-100 will get you through this season and next season.

    The methods recommended on this forum will make up for the cost of the test kit very quickly.
    Karen
    33K IG w spa plaster, Pentair 1HP Whisperflo, DE Filter, SWG CircuPool RJ-60, Dolphin Triton Plus, Raypak Dig 336K BTU, TF-100.
    Pool Math Chlorine / CYA Chart SLAM - Shock Level And Maintain
    2017 replaster/retile

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    Re: High CYA but can't drain till Fall

    Quote Originally Posted by Mirazira View Post
    Ok, I will continue reading previous threads about draining into the sewer clean out as it looks like that is my only option.
    If I get the TF50(2) will the 3 CYA tests be enough for my drain/refill project or will I need to be able to test for CYA more than 3 times?
    ~Thanks
    I would say you want more. Again, I did my drain 18" at a time, but I found myself testing a lot. If nothing else, for $8 pick up the 8oz R0013 refill.

    Why the TF-50 rather than the TF100? I assume you already have a pH test.

    If I understand after the water exchange you will be doing a SLAM so you are also going to need more of the FAS-DPD reagents than e TF50 gives you. Those planning a SLAM who buy a tF100 usually buy an XL option to get the extra tests they will probably need.
    TFP Moderator 39 X 18 23,000(ish) freeform gunite; built 2007ish; Pentair Triton II TR100 600lb Sand filter; 2 HP Pentair pump with 2.2 HP AO Smith single speed motor; 2 skimmers, 1 main drain, 4 returns w/waterfall, Stenner 45MHP2 3GPD running@ 60% - 15 gal Tank; heated by the sun CYA 200+ when I started - 50 now. Dolphin Supreme M5 Pool Cleaner. Hot Springs SX Spa, 285 gallon

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    Re: High CYA but can't drain till Fall

    Um yeah I just have one of those little basic test thingies you get At the store, CL&BR on one side & PH On the other. 1/2 oz bottle of phenol red reagent.
    Goodyear Arizona~yet to be built 25,000 gallon diving pool: Pebble interior/Pentair cartridge filter/in ground cleaning/travertine deck.

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    Mod Squad jblizzle's Avatar
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    Re: High CYA but can't drain till Fall

    How old is that cheap test kit? How was it stored?

    The best value by far is the TF-100 and I would suggest getting the XL option as that can get consumed pretty quickly. While I am spending your money ... ... no one has EVER regretted getting the SpeedStir.
    Jason, TFP Moderator
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    Re: High CYA but can't drain till Fall

    It's new I just bought it, I keep it in the house.
    How many gallons of LC should I have on hand for the slamming? Home Depot sells 2 gallons for $6.70 but it is outside in the garden section. Generic bleach is $4/gallon at the grocery store.
    Goodyear Arizona~yet to be built 25,000 gallon diving pool: Pebble interior/Pentair cartridge filter/in ground cleaning/travertine deck.

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    Re: High CYA but can't drain till Fall

    Walmart great value is usually the best value, one jug of 8.25% is around $3. Plain bleach don't get scented or splashless. Might want to pick up 10 jugs for now. Have you ordered the recommended test kit?
    Bleach will breakdown when stored outside. Walmart has high turnover and is usually fresh.
    Karen
    33K IG w spa plaster, Pentair 1HP Whisperflo, DE Filter, SWG CircuPool RJ-60, Dolphin Triton Plus, Raypak Dig 336K BTU, TF-100.
    Pool Math Chlorine / CYA Chart SLAM - Shock Level And Maintain
    2017 replaster/retile

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    Mod Squad tim5055's Avatar
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    Re: High CYA but can't drain till Fall

    I would check out the closest HASA Pool Distributor for 12.5% chlorinating liquid. It usually works out a better value
    TFP Moderator 39 X 18 23,000(ish) freeform gunite; built 2007ish; Pentair Triton II TR100 600lb Sand filter; 2 HP Pentair pump with 2.2 HP AO Smith single speed motor; 2 skimmers, 1 main drain, 4 returns w/waterfall, Stenner 45MHP2 3GPD running@ 60% - 15 gal Tank; heated by the sun CYA 200+ when I started - 50 now. Dolphin Supreme M5 Pool Cleaner. Hot Springs SX Spa, 285 gallon

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    Re: High CYA but can't drain till Fall

    You have a large pool so it is going to take lots of bleach. It will take a lot less if you get that CYA level down to a manageable level, such as 50 ppm. I'd start with 10 gallons but you'll need more.

    Cheap, fresh bleach can be had at WalMart. High shelf turn over is great because bleach loses strength over time, dependent on temperature. The fresher the better. Nearly all bleach containers will have a date code on them. Most list the manufacturing date such as 14249, most often. This code would mean it was made in 2014 (the 14) on the 249th day of the year.

    If you can get 12.5% for a good price from a pool store or HASA as tim suggested that makes it more convenient, less containers as long as the price per hypochlorite is comparable. You can compare cost/hypochlorite of different strengths of bleach fairly easily. The formula is: Cost / Container Volume in ounces x % hypochlorite = $ per active ounce hypochlorite.

    Here is a spreadsheet that someone shared on google docs that lets you compare: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/...HemhfdHc#gid=0
    Joel - TFP Moderator - Minnesota - **Become a TFP Supporter!** Helpful Links: ABCs of Pool Water Chemistry - SLAM Procedure - Chlorine/CYA Chart
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    Re: High CYA but can't drain till Fall

    Yes I ordered the test kit it should be here tues or wed next week.
    Goodyear Arizona~yet to be built 25,000 gallon diving pool: Pebble interior/Pentair cartridge filter/in ground cleaning/travertine deck.

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    Re: High CYA but can't drain till Fall

    I live in downtown Phoenix and was wondering how you drained your pool? Did you do the whole thing? Did you do it all at once? Where did you get your pump? Where did you dispose of your water? Did you test after refilling/during the process? Was it successful? Any tips or followup to your experience would be very helpful.

    My CYA levels are at 90 and I need to drain at least 50% of my pool. There are no storm drains around me.

    Thanks!

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    Re: High CYA but can't drain till Fall

    I haven't done the draining project yet- still arguing with husband over when to do it. However I have been doing a lot of research on how I'm going to do it. Here are a couple of helpful links:

    http://echris.phoenix.gov/waterservi...ool/index.html

    The above is a direct link to the City if Phoenix website page outlining exactly what you need to do in order to drain legally in the city.
    This link here is a how to guide with pictures and instruction on setting up the pump and finding the sewer clean out (there's gotta be one on your property- look around):

    http://m.wikihow.com/Drain-and-Refil...-Swimming-Pool

    You rent the pump from Home Depot. Just remember you can only set it to do 720 gallons per hour or you risk backing up into the house.
    I plan to do drain/fill simultaneously because I have an old plaster pool and apparently it's still too hot in the daytime to leave that surface exposed for too long. I guess if you have pebbltech it's not really an issue?
    Again, I have no experience with this but I feel well prepared for it after reading up on the city requirements and the previous threads on this site from those who have done it.
    Goodyear Arizona~yet to be built 25,000 gallon diving pool: Pebble interior/Pentair cartridge filter/in ground cleaning/travertine deck.

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    Re: High CYA but can't drain till Fall

    There are two primary problems with draining your pool when it's hot out - scaling and potential plaster cracks.

    1. Scaling - as you drain water from your pool, you leave residual water in the surface of the plaster as well as move the water line down to the plaster/pebble surface. Rapid evaporation plus high temperatures can lead to calcium scale on your wall and at the water line. A calcium scale line on some PebbleTec surfaces looks horrible.

    2. Cracking - one thing to always remember is that your pool surface and Gunite shell is under constant hydrostatic pressure from the thousands of gallons of water in your pool (8.1 lbs per gallon of water, 2200lbs per ton). As well, since the plaster surface is submerged in water, it's temperature does not typically exceed the temperature of your water. Once you drain water, you expose the plaster to a different state of stress & strain as well as induce thermal stresses in the thin shell material that normally never gets very hot.

    For those two reasons it is advisable to wait for cooler temperatures OR drain and fill at night to avoid stress induced cracking.



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    Re: High CYA but can't drain till Fall

    Miranda,

    Just thought I'd let you know I drained my pool and bought a cheap pump from Harbor Freight. It was much more economical and expelled at a safer rate than the one at Home Depot.
    Phoenix, AZ
    14,000 gallon pebble tec pool
    Triton II sand filter

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    Re: High CYA but can't drain till Fall

    You can drain and refill the pool at the same time. Have the inlet hose weighted close to the deep end of the pool and a pump closer to the surface. Usually the pool water is warmer and will be stay separated from the fresh water as long as the filtration system of the swimming pool is turned off. This method has the advantage of graining only the "old" water therefore is cheaper. If you mix "old" and "new" water you will drain also some of the new water as well. With a little care one can keep the water level almost constant and avoid any unpleasant developments.
    South of France inground rectangular 17k pool - ruber membrane. Sliding dome, black thermal blanket covering 75% of the pool surface. Aqualux 3/4Hp pump, glass media sand filter, Zodillac robot, 110W UV-c lamp, Hayward brominator, Caliente 12kW heat pump.

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