Become a TFP Supporter Pool Math Forum Rules Pool School
Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast
Results 1 to 20 of 24

Thread: Excess evaporation or leak? Do I trust my pool company?

  1. Back To Top    #1

    Join Date
    Jul 2010
    Location
    Philadelphia
    Posts
    134

    Excess evaporation or leak? Do I trust my pool company?

    I renovated my pool completely last summer. Pebbletec, new bluestone deck. Previously it was plaster wall and concrete deck.

    This year, I immediately started noticing the water level dropping fast. Previously, in my 6 years of ownership, I never had any issues with having to fill the pool much at all. Nice shady location.

    My pool installer made several trips out to try and detect a leak. They found one in the lighting assembly and plugged it. Water level still dropping. They came out twice more - checked with dye, some other sensor and said there is no leak (detectable within mls of leakage) - it is all evaporation.

    My water level drops about 1" every 2 days or so. I know that in my area, the humidity this summer has been low, and I do keep the water on the warmer side - but this is crazy to me. I can't fill it too much or the skimmer doors dont function well. So if I dont fill it every 4 days or so the pump sucks in air through the skimmer.

    I wrote a stern email to the pool company basically telling them if I am leaking and something caves in they are at fault. They wrote back that it is not leaking - it is evaporation.

    I tried 'cover free' as per their suggestion - and it doesn't work an iota.

    Don't know if I should just leave it at that - or what to do. I will need to get an auto-filler if this persists next year. It doesn't make sense unless the new material promotes water loss which I can't imagine would.

    Any thoughts or opinions are welcome. Very frustrated!
    19000 gal in ground, pebble tec. Sta-rite system 3 DE filter, Aquarite SWG, raypak 406A heater

  2. Back To Top    #2
    Mod Squad Bama Rambler's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2009
    Location
    SouthWest Alabama
    Posts
    22,333

    Re: Excess evaporation or leak? Do I trust my pool company?

    I'd personally run a bucket test of my own and see what it shows. That would either validate or refute their evaporation claim.

    If it refutes it, then I'd call them back with the results of the test.
    Dave J. TFP Moderator
    24' x 52" Round AGP. 2hp/¼hp SPL Power-Flo 2-speed pump. 200sqft Waterway Cartridge Filter. 45MHP2(3GPD) Stenner Peristaltic Pump
    Pool School ----- Pool Math ----- TF-Test Kit

  3. Back To Top    #3
    mas985's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2007
    Location
    Pleasanton, CA
    Posts
    11,478

    Re: Excess evaporation or leak? Do I trust my pool company?

    Even in dry areas, 1" every 2 days is pretty high. When you renovated, did you add solar or are you running the heater?


    I tried 'cover free' as per their suggestion - and it doesn't work an iota.
    So do you use a solar cover and does it cover most of the pool? If yes, then it is a leak because covers will drastically reduce evaporation and you shouldn't be getting anywhere near that much evaporation.
    Mark
    Hydraulics 101; Pump Ed 101; Pump/Pool Spreadsheets; Pump Run Time Study; DIY Acid Dosing; DIY Cover Roller
    18'x36' 20k plaster, MaxFlo SP2303VSP, Aqualogic PS8 SWCG, 420 sq-ft Cartridge, Solar, 6 jet spa, 1 HP jet pump, 400k BTU NG Heater

  4. Back To Top    #4

    Join Date
    Jul 2010
    Location
    Philadelphia
    Posts
    134

    Re: Excess evaporation or leak? Do I trust my pool company?

    I'd personally run a bucket test of my own and see what it shows. That would either validate or refute their evaporation claim.

    If it refutes it, then I'd call them back with the results of the test.

    Just googled 'bucket test' so I will try that. thank you for that suggestion.


    So do you use a solar cover and does it cover most of the pool? If yes, then it is a leak because covers will drastically reduce evaporation and you shouldn't be getting anywhere near that much evaporation.
    I don't use a cover but this material that you pour into the skimmer:

    http://naturalchemistry.com/en/pool-...ail/coverfree/


    I don't like using chemicals but I was at a loss so I bought it. No change at all.

    I do have a new solar cover but never used it - long story. I could pull it out and see. It's another option.
    19000 gal in ground, pebble tec. Sta-rite system 3 DE filter, Aquarite SWG, raypak 406A heater

  5. Back To Top    #5
    mas985's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2007
    Location
    Pleasanton, CA
    Posts
    11,478

    Re: Excess evaporation or leak? Do I trust my pool company?

    That liquid stuff rarely works for evaporation. But your best bet is the bucket test:

    http://www.troublefreepool.com/conte...leak-detection
    Mark
    Hydraulics 101; Pump Ed 101; Pump/Pool Spreadsheets; Pump Run Time Study; DIY Acid Dosing; DIY Cover Roller
    18'x36' 20k plaster, MaxFlo SP2303VSP, Aqualogic PS8 SWCG, 420 sq-ft Cartridge, Solar, 6 jet spa, 1 HP jet pump, 400k BTU NG Heater

  6. Back To Top    #6

    Join Date
    Apr 2013
    Location
    Sacramento, CA
    Posts
    2,769

    Re: Excess evaporation or leak? Do I trust my pool company?

    If the bucket test indicates a leak call your PB and offer a deal. You will find and hire a leak detection company. If they find a leak, he pays there charge and he can repair it. If they find no leak you pay. If he won't agree then you will have a leak detection company come out and if they find a leak you will get it repaired and charge him for the whole thing.
    22k gallon IG pebblefina, Jandy 1.5 HP VS, Jandy CV Cartridge filter, Fafco solar panels, Polaris 360 supply side cleaner, waterfall

  7. Back To Top    #7

    Join Date
    Jul 2010
    Location
    Philadelphia
    Posts
    134

    Re: Excess evaporation or leak? Do I trust my pool company?

    Bucket test in progress. I would be shocked if it were all evaporation - but I have been shocked before!

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by gwegan View Post
    If the bucket test indicates a leak call your PB and offer a deal. You will find and hire a leak detection company. If they find a leak, he pays there charge and he can repair it. If they find no leak you pay. If he won't agree then you will have a leak detection company come out and if they find a leak you will get it repaired and charge him for the whole thing.
    Is there such a business??
    19000 gal in ground, pebble tec. Sta-rite system 3 DE filter, Aquarite SWG, raypak 406A heater

  8. Back To Top    #8
    mas985's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2007
    Location
    Pleasanton, CA
    Posts
    11,478
    Mark
    Hydraulics 101; Pump Ed 101; Pump/Pool Spreadsheets; Pump Run Time Study; DIY Acid Dosing; DIY Cover Roller
    18'x36' 20k plaster, MaxFlo SP2303VSP, Aqualogic PS8 SWCG, 420 sq-ft Cartridge, Solar, 6 jet spa, 1 HP jet pump, 400k BTU NG Heater

  9. Back To Top    #9

    Join Date
    Jul 2010
    Location
    Philadelphia
    Posts
    134

    Re: Excess evaporation or leak? Do I trust my pool company?

    photo 1.JPG

    photo 2.jpg

    Bless this forum. It's a glaringly positive bucket test in just 12 hours. I called the pool company and demanding a third party leak detection outfit come in.

    Pool water 75 degrees, overnight low in 60s. Same loss as in mid summer with warmer air and water temps.
    19000 gal in ground, pebble tec. Sta-rite system 3 DE filter, Aquarite SWG, raypak 406A heater

  10. Back To Top    #10

    Join Date
    Jul 2010
    Location
    Philadelphia
    Posts
    134

    Re: Excess evaporation or leak? Do I trust my pool company?

    The pool company was not impressed. They said the bucket test has limitations and that it isn't leaking.
    19000 gal in ground, pebble tec. Sta-rite system 3 DE filter, Aquarite SWG, raypak 406A heater

  11. Back To Top    #11
    Mod Squad Bama Rambler's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2009
    Location
    SouthWest Alabama
    Posts
    22,333

    Re: Excess evaporation or leak? Do I trust my pool company?

    It may have limitations, but that right there is a leak. There's no way it would be that much difference if you even got the tape close to the levels.
    We have reports of many bucket leak tests and every single time that it's positively shown a leak, there has been one. I don't ever recall a false positive.

    I'd run the bucket test a couple more days to be sure and to give you more ammo.

    If they keep insisting that isn't leaking, I'd write them a certified letter stating that if they didn't send someone to find and fix the leak, I was going hire a leak detection company and if they found a leak I would be back charging them for the cost of the leak detection and the cost of repairs. In fact, I'd probably have a lawyer write the letter just so it'd be official.
    Dave J. TFP Moderator
    24' x 52" Round AGP. 2hp/¼hp SPL Power-Flo 2-speed pump. 200sqft Waterway Cartridge Filter. 45MHP2(3GPD) Stenner Peristaltic Pump
    Pool School ----- Pool Math ----- TF-Test Kit

  12. Back To Top    #12

    Join Date
    Jul 2010
    Location
    Philadelphia
    Posts
    134

    Re: Excess evaporation or leak? Do I trust my pool company?

    Quote Originally Posted by Bama Rambler View Post
    It may have limitations, but that right there is a leak. There's no way it would be that much difference if you even got the tape close to the levels.
    We have reports of many bucket leak tests and every single time that it's positively shown a leak, there has been one. I don't ever recall a false positive.

    I'd run the bucket test a couple more days to be sure and to give you more ammo.

    If they keep insisting that isn't leaking, I'd write them a certified letter stating that if they didn't send someone to find and fix the leak, I was going hire a leak detection company and if they found a leak I would be back charging them for the cost of the leak detection and the cost of repairs. In fact, I'd probably have a lawyer write the letter just so it'd be official.

    Thank you. I have contacted a very nice person from one of the above links. He suggested repeating it twice - pump off and on. At this point, I want a third party involved.

    Will follow up here.
    19000 gal in ground, pebble tec. Sta-rite system 3 DE filter, Aquarite SWG, raypak 406A heater

  13. Back To Top    #13

    Join Date
    Jun 2014
    Location
    Tucson, AZ
    Posts
    860

    Re: Excess evaporation or leak? Do I trust my pool company?

    Quote Originally Posted by shacke View Post
    The pool company was not impressed. They said the bucket test has limitations and that it isn't leaking.
    You should re-read your contract with them to see what your options are. You may need to pay up-front for the leak detection and then send them the results.

    Do you have legal services of any kind? My wife and I just starting paying for LegalShield (I have no affiliation with LegalShield) which is a legal service provider. They also do identity theft (better than LifeLock in my opinion). This is a situation where LegalShield would be helpful as they could read your contract and then deal with the reluctant PB.



  14. Back To Top    #14
    mas985's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2007
    Location
    Pleasanton, CA
    Posts
    11,478

    Re: Excess evaporation or leak? Do I trust my pool company?

    Also, put the bucket on a lower step so the water level is closer to the rim. The rim can reduce the wind speed and so evaporation can be affected. Although, that is way too much loss for evaporation.
    Mark
    Hydraulics 101; Pump Ed 101; Pump/Pool Spreadsheets; Pump Run Time Study; DIY Acid Dosing; DIY Cover Roller
    18'x36' 20k plaster, MaxFlo SP2303VSP, Aqualogic PS8 SWCG, 420 sq-ft Cartridge, Solar, 6 jet spa, 1 HP jet pump, 400k BTU NG Heater

  15. Back To Top    #15

    Join Date
    Jul 2010
    Location
    Philadelphia
    Posts
    134

    Re: Excess evaporation or leak? Do I trust my pool company?

    Finally got a live call from the owner after much ballyhoo. Talking face to face does wonders. We talked and came up with a shared solution. I set up a 3rd party to come out and hope to have it resolved in a few weeks.

    I will update with the solution to the mystery. My $1 is on a loose light conduit.
    19000 gal in ground, pebble tec. Sta-rite system 3 DE filter, Aquarite SWG, raypak 406A heater

  16. Back To Top    #16
    Mod Squad jblizzle's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2010
    Location
    Tucson, AZ
    Posts
    37,389

    Re: Excess evaporation or leak? Do I trust my pool company?

    Quote Originally Posted by mas985 View Post
    Also, put the bucket on a lower step so the water level is closer to the rim. The rim can reduce the wind speed and so evaporation can be affected. Although, that is way too much loss for evaporation.
    Was going to say the same thing
    Jason, TFP Moderator
    18k IG pebblesheen pool, Hayward ProLogic P4 w/ T-15 SWG, Pentair 1HP 2-speed Superflo, Hayward 6020 DE filter
    500 sqft Heliocol solar panels, ThePoolCleaner, TF-100 test kit w/ SpeedStir
    Pool School + Test Kit + PoolMath = A TROUBLE FREE POOL
    If you found TFP helpful and we saved you money ... Become a TFP Supporter!

  17. Back To Top    #17
    Mod Squad Bama Rambler's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2009
    Location
    SouthWest Alabama
    Posts
    22,333

    Re: Excess evaporation or leak? Do I trust my pool company?

    It's amazing how agreeable they get sometimes when you have physical evidence (i.e. Bucket test).

    Hope it's an easy fix and all goes well for you.
    Dave J. TFP Moderator
    24' x 52" Round AGP. 2hp/¼hp SPL Power-Flo 2-speed pump. 200sqft Waterway Cartridge Filter. 45MHP2(3GPD) Stenner Peristaltic Pump
    Pool School ----- Pool Math ----- TF-Test Kit

  18. Back To Top    #18

    Join Date
    Jul 2010
    Location
    Philadelphia
    Posts
    134

    Re: Excess evaporation or leak? Do I trust my pool company?

    Bucket test repeated with pool pump off - just as bad about 1 1/4" overnight. From my reading, this suggests a structural leak rather than pipes - again I think it might be the light conduit.

    I've also recently been having a LOT of air in the system not related to low water levels. Either I have two problems, 'lice and fleas', or it is somehow connected. The light conduit leaking shouldn't give me air. The pool installer did say that they have to come a fix something at the pump pad as the skimmer flow hasn't been strong at all - but they were planning to fix at closing. Maybe there are two problems - there is no water leaking anywhere that I can see.

    Leak folks now scheduled to come out in 2 weeks but since I am ever curious, if those bucket results suggest something in particular, appreciate to hear your thoughts.
    19000 gal in ground, pebble tec. Sta-rite system 3 DE filter, Aquarite SWG, raypak 406A heater

  19. Back To Top    #19

    Join Date
    Jun 2014
    Location
    Tucson, AZ
    Posts
    860

    Re: Excess evaporation or leak? Do I trust my pool company?

    No advice here, just good luck with the outside leak testing company and I hope it's something that is easily found and repaired. Keep the thread updated with photos if you can.



  20. Back To Top    #20
    Mod Squad Bama Rambler's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2009
    Location
    SouthWest Alabama
    Posts
    22,333

    Re: Excess evaporation or leak? Do I trust my pool company?

    You could have a leak in the plumbing that introduces air into the system when you run the pump.
    Dave J. TFP Moderator
    24' x 52" Round AGP. 2hp/¼hp SPL Power-Flo 2-speed pump. 200sqft Waterway Cartridge Filter. 45MHP2(3GPD) Stenner Peristaltic Pump
    Pool School ----- Pool Math ----- TF-Test Kit

Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •