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jquinney said:
I have a big problem going with the full TFP method I have Oklahoma stone on a swim step and the coping. So I'm concerned the SWG would ruin that stone.
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I have Arizona flagstone coping with a salt water pool. I've been up and running a full year and using TFP method since May.

My stone is fine. If you keep your stone clean (ie, wash it down with a garden hose after heavy use), then it will be fine in my opinion. If you don't like the idea of washing down your stone, then you could try stone sealers. I don't like those products as there are only a few brands I would trust and they all have problems with discoloration and stone damage as well. Plus you have to reapply every year.

Also, there is nothing in the TFP method that says you have to have a salt water pool. Many TFP'ers have non-salt pools. There is also nothing in the TFP method that is at all detrimental to natural stone.

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jquinney said:
I have a big problem going with the full TFP method I have Oklahoma stone on a swim step and the coping. So I'm concerned the SWG would ruin that stone.
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As Sunny said, TFP has nothing to do with how you chlorinate your pool. It deals with you taking control, testing and only adding what you need when you need it. There are many folks here who use SWCGs, but many use other methods including manual addition of liquid chlorine (bleach or higher % chlorinating liquid), Stenner pumps (me included), Liquidators and even some folks who use tabs. Testing/adjusting/controlling is the key.
 
I have un sealed travertine coping (2" thick) and have been running salt now for a year and no issues that I can see. I run a Jandy Aquapure AI SWG which needs a higher salt level than most so I'm around 4,500-4,600 ppm.

But you'll hear posts both ways on this subject so take it for what it's worth (I was going to say with a grain of salt but....).
 
All forms of chlorine add salt. While trichlor adds a little less salt than bleach, it adds CYA which builds into its own problems.

Exclusively using bleach can have the salt build up some, but usually still less than half (~1500ppm max) of what a SWG pool has (~3200ppm) which is 1/10 of the ocean (~30000ppm)
 
jquinney said:
I just don't want to introduce a bunch of salt in the pool.
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All forms of chlorine will introduce salt. It is what's left once the free chlorine is used. TFP pushes SWCG's or bleach/chlorinating liquid because it does not add other unwanted stuff. You get chlorine and a little salt. If that is all you use then it will take a long time for the salt to build up to a damaging level. With splash out and water replacement you should not have a problem. Just to give you an idea:

15000 gal pool
8oz puck will give FC 3.7, CYA 2.2 and salt 3
13 oz dichlor will give FC 3.6, CYA 3.3 and salt 2.9
21 oz lithium hypo will give FC 3.7 and salt 5.8
84 oz of 8.25% bleach FC 3.7 and salt 6.1
 

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jquinney said:
Most of the salt is in the bleach correct, they installed an auto chlorination system so shutting that down is not an issue I just don't want to introduce a bunch of salt in the pool.
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I'm still confused - do you have a salt water chlorine generator or do you use bleach or some liquid chlorine product?

In either case, the salt water (whether at low concentrations seen in a bleach system or higher concentrations seen in a SWG pool) is not likely to damage anything unless you have lots of metal components that are not properly bonded and grounded. All but the softest limestones (which you wouldn't put near a pool anyway) will be fine. Grout and cement are fine with salt water.

So I'm having trouble understanding where this fear of salt water is coming from? The TFPC method says nothing about intentionally adding salt to water (unless you have an SWG). Unless you use a bromine sanitizer or you use baquacil (baqua-snot), your water is going to get salty through the use of chlorine no matter what form it is in.


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jv92red said:
Forget making money on phosphates, pool store is making plenty of money telling people they can run their CYA up to 150 ppm max and still be in a recommended level. That's because while they would need a FC level (since it's off the FC/CYA chart I'm guessing) around 15-20ppm to keep the algae away at that CYA level, pool store FC recommended level would of course never need to be anything over 4 ppm so pool store will be making a ton of money on shock powders and algaecides when the pool is constantly green.
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High CYA and a small FC drop=cloudy water. Cloudy water=trip to pool store. Starts with algaecide and then on to phosphates test if they want to get sophisticated. Then phosfree. And NEVER, EVER, will they tell you to drain your water and refill. Just keep selling you stuff you don't need. And once you call their bluff they smile and just hope you still buy the other stuff. Which I now do online.


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jquinney said:
I have a big problem going with the full TFP method I have Oklahoma stone on a swim step and the coping. So I'm concerned the SWG would ruin that stone.
Click to expand...
I don't understand this. The full TFP method does not require use of an SWG. Are you saying that the TFP method if manually dosing with chlorinating liquid or bleach is too much effort and that automating this via an SWG risks degradation of stone due to the salt splash-out and evaporation cycles? If you wanted to do automated dosing, there are other ways of doing that without using an SWG including use of a peristaltic pump or using The Liquidator.

For every 10 ppm Free Chlorine (FC) added by Trichlor, it also increases Cyanuric Acid (CYA) by 6 ppm and salt by 8.2 ppm
For every 10 ppm FC added by a hypochlorite source of chlorine it increases salt by 16.5 ppm.

All forms of chlorine results in salt when the chlorine is used/consumed (chlorine becomes chloride) while the chlorinating liquid or bleach also add salt upon addition. With Trichlor, however, the buildup of CYA is far worse than salt because it takes far less CYA to be a problem compared to salt.
 
With all due respect, this comment shows a need to study up in pool school:
I have a big problem going with the full TFP method I have Oklahoma stone on a swim step and the coping. So I'm concerned the SWG would ruin that stone.
Click to expand...

First off, you don't need to be SWG to have a trouble free pool - BBB approach just means leaning and controlling what you add to the pool and its effects, and generally avoiding products tat will increase your CYA, and most importantly, adhering to CYA/chlorine ratio recommended here for true sanitation :)

The only difference with SWG is automating the chlorination process without adding cya.

Those who are not swg but are BBB use liquid chlorine, added daily using calcs -- by now I know pretty much how much I'll need. A few times a week I test for ph, and might drop it with muriatic acid say once or twice a month.

Once a week I check the full set of numbers, once a month I Check CYA.

My total time in to do TFP can't be more than five minutes a day ;)

I'm pretty sure we could quantitatively prove that using the TFP is way faster and easier than relying on and demystifying the junk science pedaled by marketers in the pool industry ;) make a small investment of time up front to learn your pool chemistry and you'll be golden!
 
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